[excon]

but the Qu`ran says kill the infadels. To us he deserved it, to "them" he did not. This leads me back to "is might right"?

Hello again, Rick:

That's not the right question... Obviously, we were right before we had the might. So, we don't succumb to what the world thinks is right, because the world is WRONG. Might's got nothing to do with it.

excon

[tomder55]

There was no trial, no capture, no explanation of past actions, just his death.

It's not like these were ambiguous . He declared the "Islamist" equivalence of war on the US with his 1998 Fatwah .
Al Qaeda's 1998 Fatwa | PBS NewsHour | Feb. 23, 1998 | PBS
From that point on until this week he waged war on the US . This is a no brainer unless someone gets into those grey areas where right and wrong get blurred... and definitions of war and law enforcement twisted beyond recognition .

Once he made this declaration of war, and began acting on it, he was a legitimate military target.This was simply cutting the head off the snake.
Is al-Qaeda a nation state ? Not in the classic Westphalian sense. But the Westphalian era is a brief moment in time . The truth is that until they were broken up and forced to change to a decentralized loose group of cells ;there was command and control... and Bin Laden was the top of the organization.

[Wondergirl]

if he had been captured and was being brought to justice,being brought to trial, that would have been worth celebrating.

Just for fun --

Where would he have been jailed?
Where would he have been tried?
Who would have been his defense lawyers?
Sentence of life in prison or execution?
Who would have taken him as prisoner and where, or executed him?

[NeedKarma]

Just for fun --

where would he have been jailed?
where would he have been tried?
who would have been his defense lawyers?
sentence of life in prison or execution?
who would have taken him as prisoner and where, or executed him?

Same as Saddam?

[tomder55]

Just for fun --

where would he have been jailed?
where would he have been tried?
who would have been his defense lawyers?
sentence of life in prison or execution?
who would have taken him as prisoner and where, or executed him?

And the same people who call for a trial would then accuse the US of conducting a show trial. Obama wanted KSM tried in civilian court and passed judgement on him before a venue was selected... and told the world he would be either convicted or held forever anyway.
The scary truth is that the US does not take prisoners in this war anymore because POTUS waffles on detention. So his answer is to shoot to kill .

[redhed35]

Just for fun --

where would he have been jailed?
where would he have been tried?
who would have been his defense lawyers?
sentence of life in prison or execution?
who would have taken him as prisoner and where, or executed him?

I'm sure there would have been a flurry of defense lawyers vying for the case, known serial murderers have defense lawyers, some of the best.

If the americans captured him I'm sure they would have held tight and put up one hell of a fight to try him in america,and keep him there as long as possible,ironically he would have been 'safer ' there,or at least kept alive until trial ( I can feel the ice shift beneath my feet!) the trial would have been one for the history books.

Eventually I suppose he would have been tried in the Hague, under international law as to what would become of him is anyone's guess, from the dredges of memory I recall a american defense lawyer made a case for a german officer based on the fact that even though he sent the order to kill thousands of jews, he did not directly have any involvement in the deaths i.e, the direct torture and killing of jews in any camps, however in saying that, at the time of the geneva convention there was an absence of any precedent, I would have to Google a while to make an educated guess as too whether he would eventually be killed anyway.

[paraclete]

This is all a little too PC for me. I have strong feelings about what muslim terrorists have done throughout the world.

I see nothing wrong with celebrating the death of tyrants and there are people who have good reason the celebrate the death of this tyrant. I will not critise them

[XOXOlove]

I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating bin Ladin's death. Yeah, he was human , but he did inhumane things.. and that kind of cancels out the human part.

[ITstudent2006]

Hello again, Rick:

That's not the right question... Obviously, we were right before we had the might. So, we don't succumb to what the world thinks is right, because the world is WRONG. Might's got nothing to do with it.

excon

Whether that's the right question or not is superfluous. What matters is that's MY question. Might has everything to do with it. At what point is the line drawn? Just because might is majority does that make them right?

The reason I brought this up was because a coworker had said (another paraphrase)

"Well, if we got a poll, on who thought what he did was right and what he did was wrong, it would be split (or close to it)"

Now, even if we included the radical Islamics in this poll, I feel the vast majority would see the wrong that was done by OBL. Now, this made me think, just because the majority thinks something does that make it right?

I realize this has nothing to do with my original question and to be honest I am one who see's the wrong that was done but it made me think...

[classyT]

IT,


It isn't even about right or wrong morally. It isn't about majority and it certainly isn't about might. What OBL did was mastermind an act of WAR on this country. He had thousands killed... and NOT because they provoked it they were simply going about their lives. This is a FACT. If there is a split decision on whether these actions were right or wrong.. then God help us all.

And NO, just because a majority thinks a certain way... it does NOT make it right. I am a woman who believes that there IS absolute truth and there IS a right way and a wrong way. This is the biggest problem I see, no one believes that anymore. If there is no truth and no evil and no standard... we are all doomed.

Course I know you didn't ask me that question IT... but I couldn't resist.

[speechlesstx]

I just wonder if he's enjoying his 72 hot babes.

[ITstudent2006]

IT,


It isn't even about right or wrong morally. It isn't about majority and it certainly isn't about might. What OBL did was mastermind an act of WAR on this country. He had thousands killed....and NOT because they provoked it they were simply going about their lives. This is a FACT. If there is a split decision on whether these actions were right or wrong..then God help us all.

And NO, just because a majority thinks a certain way...it does NOT make it right. I am a woman who believes that there IS absolute truth and there IS a right way and a wrong way. This is the biggest problem I see, no one believes that anymore. If there is no truth and no evil and no standard...we are all doomed.

course I know you didn't ask me that question IT....but i couldn't resist.

1. This all started from a paraphrase which means I did not say it.
2. The might vs right idea was from a co-worker, not me
3. You can say it isn't about this and isn't about that all day and too be honest it's not FACT, it's OPINION. In their eyes, he did right. In your eyes he was a monster...

NOTE: I am not pro OBL believe me, I simply like argueing.

[ITstudent2006]

Back in business...

[BMI]

IT, He had thousands killed....and NOT because they provoked it they were simply going about their lives. This is a FACT.

This is not a fact.

[Wondergirl]

IT, He had thousands killed....and NOT because they provoked it they were simply going about their lives. This is a FACT.

This is not a fact.

Please explain.

[BMI]

Gladly.

1. Either of you do not know the extent of OBL's involvement in the attacks. To pin every murder on him and him alone is not based on fact, rather assumption.

2. You refer to the people in the towers not provoking the attack. I agree. However, you use them as a further argument about the evils of OBL. While the act (whomever responsible) was pure evil it is not only those in the tower that were defenceless but the thousands of Iraqis/Afgahns who were killed as a result of the U.S led invasion of both countries. Furthermore, OBL would probably argue he had plenty of provocation to attack the U.S. right or wrong. He did not select the U.S out of a hat.

I include the second part because I read plenty of posts on here suggesting that the East's hatred of the West was brought about by nothing more than a whim. It most certainly consisted of more than that, to be fair. It also seems like the 'patriots' have no issues when the Americans do the Same thing overseas but judge very quickly when done to them.

Nevertheless, the original point:

BMI injures his foot. He seeks medical advice. The doctor asks him questions, he answers. The doctor performs tests. The doctor examines the results of said tests and shows them to BMI. The doctor says "BMI you handsome lad, you have a broken foot". This is a fact.

Conversely:

BMI injures his foot and asks his friend to look at it. His friend says "BMI you ugly son of a B****, it certainly looks like you've broken your foot". This is not a fact.

In summation: Establish the facts before shooting the doctor in the face and then you may report them as such.

[Wondergirl]

1. Either of you do not know the extent of OBL's involvement in the attacks. To pin every murder on him and him alone is not based on fact, rather assumption.

OBL bragged about his causing the attacks on the Towers, and slapped his knee in glee that the Towers had completely collapsed when he had planned only that they would be destroyed from the points of impact and upward.

2. You refer to the people in the towers not provoking the attack. I agree. However, you use them as a further argument about the evils of OBL. While the act (whomever responsible) was pure evil it is not only those in the tower that were defenceless but the thousands of Iraqis/Afgahns who were killed as a result of the U.S led invasion of both countries. Furthermore, OBL would probably argue he had plenty of provocation to attack the U.S. right or wrong. He did not select the U.S out of a hat.

He attacked first. Afghanistan and Iraq (which had nothing to do with OBL) came later.

He was quoted as saying he wanted to crush America's economy.

"We love death. The U.S. loves life. That is the difference between us two." ~Osama bin Laden

"Hostility toward America is a religious duty, and we hope to be rewarded for it by God . . . . I am confident that Muslims will be able to end the legend of the so-called superpower that is America." ~Osama Bin Laden

[ITstudent2006]

Afghanistan and Iraq (which had nothing to do with OBL)

So you think our "invasion" of these two countries had NOTHING to do with OBL? Or are you saying these two countries in their entirety had nothing to do with OBL?

[BMI]

Again, bragging or reacting to the towers falling is not an admission of guilt concerning the murder of 3,000 people! Furthermore, these questions are for the courts to decide.Many heads of the mafia are 'suspected' in the death of pretty much everyone their 'crew' murders (and in many ways you could argue they are indirectly or directly involved), yet they are not convicted of every one. That is the judicial system, it was invented for a purpose. Seems, no seemed, like an appropriate event in which to use that system, no? Just because you didn't, don't fill in the blanks with comments that have no merit in your own country's courts of law.

Your second comment: Your child is being harassed by a bully for years and years. One day, he hits back. The bully proceeds to beat him up real bad!! You on board with that?

Also, what do you mean had nothing to do with it? Innocent people in the towers were killed, we know that. Innocent people were killed by the U.S military overseas, we know that. Who's better?

Lastly, I was quoted last week saying I wanted to strangle my ex-girlfriend.

[Wondergirl]

So you think our "invasion" of these two countries had NOTHING to do with OBL?0

Afghanistan, yes. Iraq, no.