[KMC6296]

Hello - I have 2 dogs. My poodle is 2 years old and we have the toughest time with him. We live in a townhouse, so for him to go potty we have to take him outside. I take both of our dogs (we also have a 9 month border terrier mix) outside evry 1 to 1 1/2 hours.

The Terrier (Jelly) immediately goes. No problem. The Poodle though (Peanutbutter) will just not go. He will even go so far as to lift his leg for a second (I think to trick me) but no urine. So, I walk him around for a bit but he gets distracted by everything. Seriously, he can hear a car door close a block away and gets so focused on the sound that potty time is over.

I do walk both of them several time a day so I'm pretty sure they are getting enough exercise. To make matters worse, our Poodle will not - absolutely will not have his bowel movements outside. I will walk him for 45 minutes and he will come in the house and immediately have a bm. We just cannot seem to break this habit. I have small children at home and this is terrible problem. He will also urinate in the house if I don't watch him. If he doesn't urinate after being taken out, I feel terrible but I put him in his kennel. The bad thing is that he will bark, whine and squeal while in the kennel. It is getting very hard to manage with him. We love them both very much. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

[labman]

You are already doing much of what you would find in the sticky at the top of the dog forum. Praise is very important. Make sure he sees you praising Jelly. Another thing to do is when you have a chunk of time, walk, walk, walk until he can't hold it any longer. Then really praise him, maybe give him a treat.

If he isn't neutered, do so now. It is no cure all, but helps solve many problems. It also reduces the chances of cancer later in life. Behavior problems should rule out any thought of ever breeding a dog.

He may not be getting the leadership he needs. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/ For more on being top dog, see http://www.dogbreedinfo.com./topdogrules.htm

[KMC6296]

Thanks for the response! I have another question - although jelly is much younger than Peanutbutter, he is much more dominant. We do praise them both often and reward with treats. It worked with Jelly, but Peanutbutter is not nearly as interested in the rewards. We have tried different varieties of treats but he doesn't seem to care. Are there any treates you can suggest?

Also, Peanutbutter has terrible skin allergies. Could this contribute to some of our problems?

Lastly, could part of the problem be that Jelly is so much more dominant? And Peanutbutter has been neutered, but Jelly has not yet. Would neutering him help at all?

[badams007]

PLEASE neuter Jelly... Not only should it eventually help some in mellowing the dynamics between them, but it will prevent any puppies and help him live longer.

Jelly is a terrier, and entering adolescence. There is probably a lot going on in th dynamics between the 2 that you are not picking up on. This dog has the liklihood of a strong personality just built into him - it's the breed

I would STRONGLY advise walking Peanut butter separately from Jelly a couple of times a day. Peeing in front of another male dog can be viewed as an act of dominance, and bm'ing an act of submission... He may well not want to do either when Jelly's around.

and yes, you may have to "up the ante" for Peanut Butter and give him a higher value treat than Jelly. In my house things like cheese, zuke's mini naturals, and cheezit crackers are the very high value treats.

I suspect the problem here lies in the pack positioning between your 2 dogs, and by being aware of that you can help Peanut butter by working around it some until he;s more comfortable... and making sure Jelly's not being a major brat !

-Beth

[KMC6296]

I have asked this question once before and received some really good suggestions. I am STILL having trouble getting my 2 year old poodle to have bm's outside. He just will not do it. I have praised him when he urinates with turkey hot dog pieces, I have walked him alone (we have another dog), I have walked him with the other dog. I have taken him on walks by himeself, I have taken him on walks with the other dog. I have tried limiting his food and water to 3 times per day, instead of being available all the time. I have put him in his crate when I cannot keep an eye on him.

Somehow, in the matter of 1 or 2 unsupervised minutes, he is managing to have his bm's in the house. AND I caught him urinating on the stairs today.

WHAT CAN I DO??

We are looking to sell our house in the next couple of months and it stinks in here! Not to mention, I have a young child at home and he will have bm's in her bedroom. This is just not good. It is getting to the point where it is very hard to enjoy having him with us. I do not want to find another home for him. We are all so attached to him and love him, but this has just got to stop. I have tried having a trainer come to our house to see if she could help with the problem. We worked with a clicker and heavily rewarding good behavior. The problem with that is he NEVER has his bm's outside. How can I reward behavior that he does not display?

[labman]

To help everybody understand the whole problem, I have merged your new and old questions. I thought Beth had some good points the first time. I still think it has to do with pack rank and status. You have tried several things we suggested, but did not mention neutering Jelly. Peanutbutter may really resent Jelly's dominating behavior. Posture, head position, going through a door way first, etc. are all very important to a dog. Where do they sleep? If in bed with you, that is point #13 in the top dog list. Peanut butter may be having the bowel movements and marking the house just to prove to you and Jelly that you can't stop him. These things are really complicated and subtle. Even your professional may have missed what is going on.

Is your child old enough for 4-H? With somebody the right age in the family, 4-H dog training is a great idea. In my area, clubs form soon after the first of the year. Even many urban areas have 4-H. For info look in your phone book under government listings for extension or cooperative extension offices. Ask specifically about a dog or canine club. Pack the child and Peanutbutter off to 4-H. Even if you don't have the quality of leadership at 4-H we have here, having to obey the child could do wonders for the BM in the child's bedroom.

[KMC6296]

I have had Jelly neutered. As far as sleeping arrangements, we originally had them sleeping in their own crates at night, but Peanut Butter would whine and whine and bark and bark. Once we put them together, he stopped.

Jelly does absolutely push his way to the front of everything. We have made an effort to hold Jelly back, commanding that he sit, while Peanut Butter goes out the door, into the car, etc. first.

Perhaps what your saying labman about marking his territory is correct. He has ample time to take care of business outside, but it almost seems as if he WANTS to go inside. As I said before, he will stand next to a tree, lift his leg and no urine comes out. But 2 minutes in the house and he relieves himself.

I will definitely chek in to the 4-H. I'm not sure there is anything in our area, if not would any other training situation work? Would you recommend individual training or group? He is very social and cannot behave when he encounters other dogs or people. He gets CRAZY. Would a group setting also address the behavior issues? Lastly, would it also be beneficial to take Jelly for training or should Peanut Butter be taken by himself?

Thanks so much!

[labman]

4-H is cheap, child friendly, and around here, has top notch leaders. Even though my kids are long past 4-H, I still let my friend recruit children to show my puppies in 4-H. Maybe there were only 5 in her class, but I certainly enjoyed seeing my Sheba take first at the state fair. 4-H is also good for the kids. Between what I see at 4-H and youth baseball, anybody that runs down today's kids gets an argument from me. Any good obedience class would help. A dog can only learn to stay on task around other dogs around other dogs. If you have a second handler, both dogs would be best.

Thanks for having Jelly neutered. It may take a while for his hormones to wear off, but it should help the whole thing.