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AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 07:46 AM

Here's the story...
My grandmother (dad's side) bought a parcel of land from her mother in 1935. After her mother (my great grandmother) died she inherited the parcel of land behind that and it went to a creek. About 500' of creek frontage. In 1975, my grandmother sold the land to my parents. In 1989, my parents sold the land to a family friend. I just bought the land from the family friend and now the land has been in my family's name about 100 years! During my purchase of the land the closing attorney ran the numbers of the land description and found that about 2 acres of land was missing. My parents bought and sold to the family friend about 2 acres of land. The land description came to one acre. I was given a warranty deed to it and a quit claim deed to the remaining 1/4 acre that went to the creek but where was the other 1 3/4 acres. Every one in my family, even my grandmother thought she had sold my parent property that went to the creek. So, being the detective that I am I went to the courthouse and was mortified at what I found! Turns out that the missing land was still in my grandmother's name AND that since she didn't live on the property she had no idea that the Army Corp of Engineers moved the creek in 1949. Before 1949 the creek made a "U" shape around my grandmother's property but the straightened the creek which put it right though the property. My parents were always told that the property went to the otherside of the creek but they only figured about a couple of feet on the other side. Now here's the kicker... the other side of the creek is a city ball park complex and even has a building next to the creek that is owned by a civic organization. Turns out that the missing 1 3/4 acres is in this city ball park and includes this building next to the creek! Due to some clerical error that parcel of land was never put into my parent's name in 1975. I was told I needed to do a Bill to Quiet Title. The city wasn't established until the last 70's but my family and the friend who bought it have been using the parcel of land in question on our side of the creek my parents had a garden on it and the friend who bought it even clear it up to the creek and put a permanent metal shed 21'x38' on at least part of this parcel of land. The city thinks they own it and even put a sewer main next to the creek but the title/deed is still in my grandmothers name and that was the last record of activity (going from my great grandmother to my grandmother) on the land and that was in the 1950's about the time my parents were born.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

ballengerb1 · Mar 17, 2011, 08:50 AM

Tough call, from what your describ the city/park may now be the legal owner by adverse possession. Adverse possession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Where is this property, laws vary from state to state.

joypulv · Mar 17, 2011, 09:42 AM

Adverse possession claims must be brought in court and the burden of proff is on them, and you can certainly get involved. You might be able to wangle a little money out of the town, or a write off donation, maybe even a break on taxes if you all are on good terms by the time this gets ironed out. I doubt that you'll get your land back.

Good story though!

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 09:57 AM

Alabama.
Does adverse possession effect just the land they are on or the parcel of land?

smoothy · Mar 17, 2011, 10:02 AM

Have you actually been paying taxes of what you thought was the entire parcel... or what was actually the entire parcel all this time? I.E. does the tax bill reflect the actual square footage of ground... or does it show what you believed the entire lot to be? That can be very important.

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 10:03 AM

What about the organizations that use it to make money, the ball league and the civic organization both use the property to make money? The city could have the property if they paid for it but to just use it and not say ANYTHING is wrong! I suspect that the city thinks they own it outright so they don't even have a Quit Claim on it because at the courthouse the records for the property stop in the 1950's.

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 10:10 AM

The parcel...
The entire parcel has about a 1/4 acre on my side and then about 1 3/4 acres on the park side. The tax records show one huge parcel on my side of the creek when in fact there are 2 separate pieces there. Basically the tax records and court records don't match. Based upon the court records there is a one acre parcel and a 2 acre parcel. On the taxes records it shows the one acre parcel plus a 1/4 acre parcel as one huge parcel. I know we've been paying the taxes on the piece in question but on how much of it I don't know. I guess I need to find out.

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 10:25 AM

Here is a sketch to explain the land between the tax records and court records

joypulv · Mar 17, 2011, 10:30 AM

It would be nice to see a list of the parcels and when what happened... You first wrote about 1 acre and .95 acre being unclear; are these two new parcels entirely (.25 A on one side of the creek and 1.75 A on the other)?

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 10:42 AM

Who defines a parcel, the courthouse or tax collector? If it's the tax collector then it's one parcel of land on my side that is 1.95 acres. I'm sorry it's .95 on my side that is in Quit Claim, not a 1/4 acre. The 1 acre I have a Warranty Deed. About 1 3/4 acres on the park side based upon the courthouse records. I haven't had it surveyed yet and not even sure if I need to (Do I?).

If the courthouse defines the parcels based upon the deeds then there are 2 parcels on my side. The 1 acre that I have as a Warranty Deed and the .95 acre that crosses the creek. So in this case one parcel is 1 acre and the other parcel is about 2 1/2 acres roughly.

In the image I was showing the difference between what the courthouse has and what the tax collector has. Does that make sense? Sorry for being off on the acreage there... this numbers are... ugh!!

smoothy · Mar 17, 2011, 10:48 AM

I would get it surveyed. And take photos after it is (photos help refresh your memory after the wood stakes are long gone (or pound in metal fence poles exactly where the stake is if its legal)... its the only way to be certain the property lines are exactly where you think they are. Memory has a way of proving innaccurate given enough time.

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 10:58 AM

Thanks smoothy, I'll do that. When I went to the courthouse I copies the feet and walked it off and the 2 corners are in ball fields so a fence post won't work. Lol
I will do flags with the photos with the survey guy and then remove them.

joypulv, I improved the image that I uploaded earlier if it helps.

LisaB4657 · Mar 17, 2011, 11:06 AM

Have you ordered a title search yet on all of the parcels? A title search will show the true current owner of all the properties you are concerned with. I wouldn't even think of spending the $$$ on a survey until a title search has been done.

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 17, 2011, 11:22 AM

The title search on my 1 acre... yes! It was clean and is now in my name. I haven't done a title search on the other part, I just went to the courthouse and did some digging but there was nothing on that past the 1950's and it showed my grandmother as having the title. I couldn't find anything else but I will get that done... with title insurance! Thank you.

joypulv · Mar 17, 2011, 12:04 PM

Deeds are supposed to define what the tax collector collects.

In theory you can 'use' 'your' land and whatever is on it and make the town fight for possession; in practicality you don't want to cause a fight. Either hire a lawyer or duke it out at a town meeting, at zoning, at the deed office, and maybe get the local paper to write about it. If you lived somewhere else all the years that the other owner had it before selling it back to you, while it shouldn't matter legally, it will in the court of public opinion.

AK lawyer · Mar 17, 2011, 12:53 PM

Interesting case.

I assume this is in Alabama?

I too suspect that the city may have acquired title by adverse possession. I disagree with what someone suggested, that they would have to go to court to legitimize their AP claim. Chances are that the don't have to: just continue to occupy it until you bring them to court.

You might check with the Corps of Engineers. I suspect that they keep fairly good records. It might be worth researching whether they paid for the chunk of land on your side of the creek, but somehow the documentation of that transaction (a deed) never got prepared or properly recorded.

I'm still not totally clear on who has actually occupied the land on your side of the creek (which the title record has in your grandmother's name)?

Buiding "next to the creek" - on their side?
your parents' garden - your side
metal shed - other (city's) side?
sewer main - other side?

So, to summarize, the city has actually done nothing to actually possess the litorial (stream-side land) on your side, right? Such acts of possession would be necessary for them to establish adverse possession.

ballengerb1 · Mar 17, 2011, 02:15 PM

Adverse possession was my first thougt when this post came up. Funny thing, if the shoe was on the other foot, OP was using city land he could not use adverse possession to claim the land. It doesn't work againist cities or states.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 17, 2011, 02:44 PM

Often though various sales, and early deeds only gave things like to this road, or this creek, not so many feet and other directions.

You will have to have a complete title search done, showing where this happened, and proved by title attorney, and as noted if this land is still in her name with a deed in her name, you will need to do legal action to have to bought current though the current heirs, and to do a quiet title action to prove owner ship.

This is not going to happen without a very good attorney who does real estate law.

ScottGem · Mar 17, 2011, 03:46 PM

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the definition of the property. You stated the second parcel purchased "went to a creek". It is not unusual for a deed to specify from x point to water's edge. By moving the creek, the Corps of Engineers may have reduced the property. Assuming the other side of the creek was city property at the time, they could have claimed the additional property by eminent domain.

Now I'm not saying this happened, but the possibility is there. So the first thing I would do is get the EXACT definition of the property. The second thing is to do a title search. If the definition of the property does extend into the park and the title search shows it to be in your grandmother's name, then you should get a survey and go to court.

As for the organizations that run the ball park, you will probably find they are non-profits. Even they they derive income from the property you have no claim on that.

Finally, I think you stand a snowball's chance in the nether regions of recovering that property. Even if a court awards you the property, the city will take it by eminent domain. But, if you can prove the property belongs to you by inheritance, then you stand a good chance of getting compensation for it.

AlabamaRaptor · Mar 18, 2011, 06:31 AM

@AK_lawyer...
My parents (both still living) occupied the land once they purchased it in 1975 from my grandmother but title was never put into my parents name. Only the 1 acre parcel was put in their name and the other piece, although sold to my parents, was left in my grandmother's name due to some clerical error.
The building (probably 20' x 40') is on the other side of the creek about 10' from the creek's edge. Creek is only about 5'-8' wide. Garden and part of the shed is on my side but on the piece that is still in my grandmother's name. Sewer main is on the other side running along the creek's edge.