[acolaclass]

The reflex answer to that question is probably "NO", that jealousy is toxic, useless etc etc... but let me run this by you (and some of the more frequent repliers are familiar with my scenerio).

A few weeks ago I broke up with my girlfriend of a year and a half and while I AM letting go, and have no contact with her etc, I am still writing questions on here, NOT to try and get back with her, but to help me 'pick up the pieces' so to speak... yes she broke up with me. She clearly did not know what she wanted, according to just about every one I spoke to. All the same, her biggest issue with me was, in her opinion I just did not trust her. Now, in this stage of 'healing' from our break-up, I am wrestling with a tremendous amount of guilt and thoughts about 'should I have trusted her more?', 'was I being unreasonable?" etc. Before you reply saying that dwelling on such questions wont change the fact that she's gone, I know that. I'm not trying to get her back. But this guilt is debilitating!

That being said, I know trust is manditory and I commonly read on this site that if your partner gets jealous when you talk to your opposite sex friends, then dump because they dont trust you but I was wondering if there was ever a case where jealousy was 'understandable' if not 'warrented' or should people just ignore things that make them feel VERY uncomfortable no matter what and essentially 'force' themselves to trust the other person even when that person is making it VERY hard to do? Below are the things tha happened in our relationship that erroded my trust and I feel 'provoked' my jealousy. Was I wrong to be jealous and have trust issues with her EVEN in light of the following?:

1) She says to me "I have a 'hypothetical' for you. Lets say an old high school friend of mine comes back into my life after the reunion. We are just catching up, nothing romantic etc. I'm not looking for anything (because she was with me at the time saying she loved me, sleeping with me etc) and then out of the blue he kisses me... AND I LIKE IT. How would that make you feel?" (terrible thats how)

2) MUCH to my disappointment she accepted a coffee invitation from a guy I felt threatened by and before she goes to it she says to me "You don't have anything to worry about, the odds of anything happening 'today' when I am over at his apt are 'very slim'" I put those words in " " because they were red flag words to me. "Today" and "very slim"?? What the......what about "never" and "no chance" because I love you??

3) She would tell me that she wants to be with me 'now' but could not make me any long term promises, BUT she wanted me to be 'ok' with her accepting invites from her guy friends who didnt know I existed most of the time let along that her and I were a couple. I had to BEG her to tell 2 or 3 of the guys that she was seeing someone and she did it VERY reluctantly protesting saying that I should just trust her. But my mantra to her had been..."If you want me to trust you so bad, give me something to trust and make up your mind that you want to be in this relationship and stick with it." Its as if she wanted me to be 'ok' with her uncertainty about really 'committing' to me whole-heartedly (though she swore we were exclusive and I feel she never cheated on me physically... emoitonally though, I think so) AND be OK with her accepting invites from her guy 'friends' whom she did not tell about me to.. she says because it was because of her pending divorce and therefore she did not want to tell people about us for custody reasons with the kids.

4)When we took some 'time apart' 3 months into our relationship, and she told me that if she was to come back to me she would like for us to date casually, which to her, she said, meant 'no more I love yous' 'no more sex' and oh... ' we can see other people too'. I talked her out of that and told her we had come to far to date casually but that she should come back, we continue to be exclusive and if down the road after we give it a fair shot, and she still does not feel right, she can break up with me and date 30 guys 'casually' for all I care, but I was not going to be one of them. She accepted my counter offer and we did not break up again for 9 months, albeit those 9 months were NOT smooth by any means. Four or so months later, she told me she used that time to think about if her feelings for me were 'platonic' or not... are you kidding me? She said that no they were not platonic and that she truly was in love with me, but can you see how even a confession like that could mess up trust and foster jealousy if she wants to retain 'guy friendships'?

In closing I admit my trust in her was severely impaired very early on, like within two months of our year and a half relationship, trust issues out of which some serious jealously arose from within me but nevertheless I still feel aweful and intolerably guilty about not trusting her more in EVEN in light of the blood red flags above. In other words I feel like if I had just sucked it up and ignored the things above, she would still be with me today. Again its too late, she's not coming back, I got that. Not trying to win her back. I just don't want to feel so d-amn guilty that she's gone because I failed to trust her when I should have. But again, those things mentioned above made it REALLY difficult d-mn near impossible to do in my opinion. Was I the jerk for not trusting her?

[Jake2008]

I think what's happening here is, you reacted appropriately when she changed the rules of the relationship.

She made the decision to alter her commitment to you, and essentially have her cake and eat it too, by doing what she wanted to do, with other men, all the while telling you if you trusted her, you would KNOW that nothing happened when she met up with other guys.

With her making her behaviour seem like your fault- by suggesting you are the one who has jealousy issues- you are left asking yourself if you over reacted, or unjustly felt insecure or jealous with her communication with other men.

Your 'jealousy' is misplaced. 'Jealousy' as a reason to explain one's own bad behaviour, by essentially blaming your partner, is never okay, and you should not be fooled by that old tactic.

It's like saying that I drink a case of 24 a day and drive my car and have so many accidents, DWI's, and fines to pay, because you nagged me into it.

From what you have said, I think that you made appropriate decisions based on the information and experience you have had with this woman, and that is to choose to be single, and not involved with her. What may have started as jealousy, was more likely instinct, telling you something is not adding up, and making you uncomfortable. I do not think that anything you did caused her, to behave the way she did.

[acolaclass]

Jake, Thank you SO much for your reply. Its funny but like 99.999999% of the people who I have spoken to about these issues with her have all used the phrase "have her cake and eat it too". Uncanny! Must be true. In order to get the most out of your feed back I want to make sure I understand something you said, properly. In reference to your analogy about drinking a case of 24 and doing all these bad things afterwards and blaming being nagged... she was not blaming what she was doing 'on' my jealous feelings, rather, those feelings arose out of her doing those things and just saying to me "You just need to trust me baby. Why dont you trust me?" But I don't feel she did it 'because' she knew I was uncomfortable about things. Does that clarification make sense?

As for how guilty I feel about what feels like me forcing her to break up with me because I was so insecure, there were a number of times where I suspected something was up but was WRONG... so I just feel like if I was more tolerant of what she was doing, she would have never left in the first place. But the things she said to me that I quoted in the original question, made me suspicious of everything!. but that does not make me feel any less guilty for driving her to break up with me because I was wrong about what she was really up to 'sometimes'. Your thoughts?

[Jake2008]

Yes, you have my meaning.

Whether by design, or accident (I suspect design), she knew that you felt guilty over feeling jealous, and she used that as an excuse for her own behaviour. If for instance, she proved by her own actions, that you had no reason not to trust her, she would not have had such a convenient excuse. I believe she likely knew that your jealousy, was convenient in order for her to do what she wanted.

It is probably likely, if the relationship continued as it was, that it would have become more evident with her blaming your jealousy, as causing her behaviour. That was more what I meant by choosing to drink a case of 24 and blaming it on your partner, as in they made you do it because they nagged you into it.

It is good that your friends have also reached the same conclusion as I have.

Good luck to you.

[mystific]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jake2008 again

I wouldn't of worded it as perfectly as you have.

Acolaclass:

Men and women alike can be manipulative and create mind games in order to 'get their' way in relationships. It certainly dosen't favour one sex over the other.

Some women have a way of making men bend to their will to allow them to have their own way regardless of how their significant other feels. Yet you see some men absolutely powerless to say no.. no more. You are fortunate that you were able to see what kind of woman she was and that you have a positive support group around you.

Situations like yours, you really need to go with gut instinct. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as you had every right to not believe in what she was saying nor trust her actions behind them. Had you 'sucked it up'.. you may still be the mug of yester year today.

It dosen't mean to say you won't/can't trust someone again either. It just means you'll be more 'aware' of the situation and will be able to gauge reactions a little smarter.

All part n parcel of life experience. It makes us that little bit wiser next time around.

[southamerica]

"Jealousy" and "User" and all those lovely red flag words are such a wonderful tool for the manipulative girl/boyfriends.

What we have here is a confusion of definitions. "A Jealous Boyfriend" is what you've been labeled when really she was "Overstepping boundaries"

A Jealous Boyfriend looks through his girlfriend's cell phone, get angry when she hangs out with anyone of the opposite sex (or even the same sex), etc.

Overstepping boundaries is lying about the status of your relationship to other men, hanging out with old flings who kiss you (and enjoying that kiss), expecting "casual dating" with someone you had a prior serious commitment to.

You weren't a jealous boyfriend, she was giving you every reason to believe she was liable to cheat on you and you picked up on those hints. Jake is absolutely right to say you were right in your instincts.

Don't feel guilty towards her. Forgive yourself because you tolerated that behavior for longer than most others would.

[ISneezeFunny]

I only read the first two "red flags" and found myself shaking my head. I wouldn't have felt any guilt. I'm not sure if she was trying to play a game or play you, but you should feel better knowing that you dealt with it appropriately.

[talaniman]

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...ed-558763.html

Glad to see your emotional dust is settling. You are at least seeing things for what they are as your shock is wearing off. Now see the rest, because you can't lay all the blame at her feet, because you knew she was going through a divorce, and was fresh from a 21 year marriage. Yet you pursued your wants any way. Emotionally she never was yours, as she was trying to unpack a lot of baggage and deal with whatever she went through.

Bottom line as I see it though, you made a very bad choice to give your heart to a person who obviously was working through her own hell to find herself. Even after she told you what the score was, you didn't let go. Heck, this never should have started in the first place. Kind of harsh I know, but really is something you need to know.

Why did you ignore EVERY red flag that was waving to even get so deeply involved with this very hurt stranger? And what's up with starting so many posts?

... The day I met her was the day she became separated from her husband of 21 years and before meeting him the only 'dating' she ever did was a young man while she was in high school for two months. We started dating 15 days after her separation and things got serious fast! But after like two months into it,.

This was all the warning you needed. You took a wounded human, helped her heal, and when she was strong enough, she left. Your turn to heal!

[acolaclass]

Thanks for your reply. Yes I knew she was going through a divorce from day one but the day I even told her I liked her (because she was flirting with me and I wanted to find out her intentions) she told me what she going through so I told her I would wait and just intended to be her friend at that point but she was so flattered I guess that I said I'd wait, she then pursued me. No I did not turn her down but I did not want to assume that she could not handle it. I know its hard to see from my posts only focusing on the bad but I don't feel it was that I flat out ignored the red flags, rather there were many many good signs as well that contradicted all the red flags. She would sign her emails to me "Mrs (my last name)", I have dozens of love letters where she talks to me about how 'strong' we are, she at one point was looking at apts for US and would REGULARLY ask me to please not give up on her while she was going through with this in her life.

... so yes there were red flags but what made it so difficult was that there were also flags to the contrary of how much she wanted us to work out, I was her second chance at love, too good to be true, and she was afraid I would not stick it out with her... she filled a diary worth of love letters to me. That was her idea. We each wrote in a book every day to each other and when our books were filled we swap so we can read what we wrote each other. It was not all bad. That's what makes this so difficult. It wasn't a 'constant barrage' of bad red flags. About the multiple posts. There are multiple aspects of this break up that I wanted to discuss and felt this one to be a little different from the last.

For Talaniman

Hey, :) I replied to you but for some reason it posted as an individual comment from me and not in reply to what you said specifically so scroll up and there is my reply to you. Thanks

[talaniman]

You only have to ignore one red flag for things to turn into a train wreck.

[acolaclass]

Evidently

[acolaclass]

I concede to the idea that there may be some truth to what you said about "she was never mind emotionally" since I've heard that before, but that being true... what was with all the many VERY emotionally charged love letters? Her words were every bit as intense as how I felt... wish I could upload a copy on my post here... haha. But yeah what's that all about if she wasn't mine emotionally?

[talaniman]

You got carried away, and evidently, so did she. She was doing what made her feel good, you were to to be fair, but as she grew stronger within herself, she no longer needed you to feel better than what she was, and she was able to see her other options and opportunities that she could explore. She tried to tell you that but you refused to listen.

That's what you wrote when you talked her into staying after 3 months.

[acolaclass]

Thanks again! Its funny you should say that too because towards the end of our relationship I told her specifically "I do NOT want to be the guy who nurses you back to health so to speak, until you are strong enough to dump me" She was like "No baby, I would never do that! I love you! What do I have to do to prove to you that I love you? I feel like I am always having to prove my love to you. Why dont you trust, believe me?"... This was said to me just like a month and a half before we split, so after the 1 year mark... as if she had never put up those red flags. When I bring up what she said 3 mo into it like you mentioned she would say, "Andrew, that was in the beginning. My love for you has grown since then, baby. You are my baby now! I think it was normal for me to have such doubts in the beginning, but that was so long ago."

[acolaclass]

To those who recognize my name and have read my previous posts, fear not, I will spare you all the details as they are not really needed for this post. Suffice to say, I am in the process of 'mending' from an extremely painful breakup from my first love (yes I found her later than most 33)... or should I say first 'relationship'. I have fallen in love before but it was unrequited but she was the first where I felt 'loved back'. I am confined to a wheelchair so attracting a mate has been a daunting task to say the least despite having a lot to offer.

Aaaaanyway... like the title implies, I have hit a road block in my healing process after this break up. No I'm not going to relentlessly try to win her back etc. Maybe I've listened to a few too many love songs in my life time and have been conditioned to think this is how love is supposed to be as a result, but... hmmm let me see how I can best word this. I am of the opinion that had she 'truly' loved me, she would not have broken up with me in the first place (please correct me if that is erroneous thinking) . As such, and this is the part where I'm going to sound like a sappy love song but, as such I feel as though if I were to do as she has done and 'move on' instead of saying she was my 'soul mate that left' therefore I will never again pursue another, it would be like me saying I never loved her either, in my opinion (again please correct me if that is erroneous thinking, that's why I'm asking), but I DO, I really do! So it feels very difficult for me to move forward because for me, to do so is like saying "I never loved her" because if I did, how could I love another? Know what I mean? Yes I know people date and even marry multiple people but doesn't that mean that they never could have 'truly' loved them in the first place if they chose to leave them?. excluding leaving a cheater of course that's different. But to leave a person who never otherwise 'mistreated' you? I will add details as needed if my question here was too convoluted, but that's the best I can word it for now. Your thoughts? I want to heal, but in doing so it just feels like I'm saying I never loved her, but I do!

[amicon]

Feelings change,that's what happens.

A longlasting loving relationship is a work in progress,and sometimes we fail to keep working on and with the relationship,and the love fades away.

Moving on doesn't mean you never loved the person,it means you move forward with your own life,loving yourself.

Most of us find love again with a new man or woman.

[ironhide262]

The relationship you had with this woman was real, the mutual love was there,she loved you and you her... so, it did happen.
You wrote that this was the first relationship that you truly loved and felt love back... you love this girl still... are you getting any love back?? In essence, you are stuck in the past my friend. If you want to heal, stop being a prisoner of the past... recognize that things have changed... snap back into the present and all the possibilities and wonderful opportunities that may come your way. Let her go, move forward and you will find love again.

[talaniman]

One of the hardest things we humans face is accepting changes we don't like. Some of us take longer to realize that things change and we have to adjust, best we can to those changes.

Change hurts sometimes, that's why we fight it, but like all fights, we either see it as a win, when we get what we want, or a loss when we don't. That's where you are, still fighting YOURSELF, and that's a no win situation. She has moved on, so must you, and you will when you accept you can't change her mind, only your own, and quite fighting yourself.

You will in time, as we all do because we get sick of hitting ourselves in the head, and hurting OURSELVES in the process.

[vanheart]

Killer advice.

Stop letting her run your life. Or the thought of her anyway.

Time to do what we all do. Go NC & move on...

Whooooo Hoooooo!!