[ttewor]

Thanks for the other replys
I have to ask what is the best way to find a family member who was /is in witsec I know most would say can not be done but I'm not like most I'm not going to take no for an answer even if I have to go to jail to get it done . Some would say it's crazy to try but at this point in my life most of my family has already died and he is my brother who I care very much about so I have to give it all I can so any thoughts on how will be very helpful thanks

[ScottGem]

I said in the other thread. If you really care about your brother you will leave it alone. You could find yourself arrested. Even if I knew how, and I don't think there is any way), I wouldn't tell you. Get on with your life.

[Nosnosna]

You say you don't care about going to jail. Fine, that's your choice.

Do you care about your brother's life? If he's in witness protection, he's not there for the fun of it, he's there because someone specifically wants him dead and has the means to see it done. By finding him, the only thing you'll do is get him killed. Is a brief reunion worth living the rest of your life knowing that you are the reason he's dead?

[ttewor]

I understand your point and can agree with that I think what I really want to do is find out why he is there if I can understand that I can except it at that but to just take someone out of a family fake his death and have no way of knowing if he is safe in jail or dead really makes it unexceptable I know the feds do make exceptions they do have ways to let the children of witnesses be brought back and forth for visitations so I do not totally except the death part the feds can keep someone safe while allowing certin visits I know they are not going to do this but I know they can anyway back to what I was saying I can walk away knowing why and who wanted him dead if they are still alive but to not know anything is more then I can take and except so I will keep digging until I have at least an answer to the basics who why and when as they say but thanks

[ScottGem]

Ya know, I find it hard to fathom that you don't know why he was removed. For the feds to "fake his death", if that's what happened, it had to be a pretty high profile case and you should have known what he was doing.

So, something about this whole thing just doesn't ring true.

[Nosnosna]

I don't know how to explain this any better than it already has been, but I'll give it another shot.

Everything you do to try to find this person puts his life in danger. But that's not all: if somebody is interested enough in killing your brother that witness protection faked his death, then they are going to be MUCH better at finding him than you are. That's why the death was faked, because the only way he wouldn't be found is if these people stopped looking for him.

Just in your posts here, you've given somebody who might be looking for this person enough information to know that he didn't die when they thought he did. Now these people with their millions of dollars and a hell of a grudge to settle can start looking for your brother. And they're going to find him long before you do, because as I said, they are MUCH better at this than you are.

[Fr_Chuck]

File a federal law suit against the Justice Dept, call him as a witness in a court action and demand he be served.

It won't work, the system is sit, if there was a way to get around it, the bad guys with millions of dollars would be doing it,

And honestly you could be the brother but what if the mob has threatened to kill your wife if you don't turn your brother over, you could be working for the mob, families in the business is not uncommom,
So NO there is no way to find him.

[ttewor]

OK I have to answer two replys in one here first off I was 13 yrs old when this all went down in 1978 I know he was a long haul truck driver that was involved in running small amounts of Pot, and was involved in a multi million dollar counterfeiting scam, that he was busted with 100,000 and three plates. I believe the people who owned the plates are the ones who wanted him dead but that was before trial. And again 27 yrs ago hell its my Brother and I do not know if I would be able to recognize him after this much time, and as to getting him killed that's what the feds get paid for let them earn there keep for awile . I do not think anyone is even looking for him anymore. My other brother inlaw was involved with the whole mess and he never left and they never tried to take him out, so I think it's a mute point. I allso tracked down another party who they worked with who went to la and he was upset I found him but he would not talk about it. Hell my own family will not talk about it other then what they have to. He has a wife and four kids who I talk to all the time and even she thinks he would be safe to come back but that's up to him. I was lucky enough to get the feds to take a letter from me and one from his wife and move it through there day to day operations of the us marshals office but then they told me they will not be of any more help and back to the we can not confirm nor denigh he is in the program or ever was lol and as to my posts I have posts on a few other boards cops and others asking for help info and to each of the boards have helped me in some small ways adding to my overall search like the one post that said they can change there name and location and habbits but they can not change medical conditions that was a plus for me as I know his History and as to me ever telling anyone not I'm 45 yrs old and in poor health I can pack it in before I let that happen

[ttewor]

Ps I did do a foia request without any results they have erased any and all info from his past life and as to hireing a lawyer I tried that he returned my money two weeks later and made a point to say he likes to keep his licence to practice law they got to him that quick so I can guess if I ever get close they will stop me anyway but I still have to try

[ttewor]

O by the way I'm divorced so if they want to kill my wife they will be doing me the favor but I do understand that thinking and if they were to do that it would have been done long ago everyone knows now that it was a scam but I still feel sorry for his wife and four kids they had to grow up on welfare without a father the feds screwed four little kids more then anyone else I hope they are reading this

[ScottGem]

as to getting him killed thats what the feds get paid for let them earn there keep for awile .

Listen to yourself! The feds ARE doing what they are paid for. They are trying to keep your selfish butt from getting your brother killed! When are you going to wake up?

[Fr_Chuck]

I will add if any law enforcement person offers to try and help find him, they can be fired and arrested. It is illegal to do what you want to do.

And please understand this when I say this, most likely by now the Feds are taping your phones and checking your mail. For real, if you are making noice about a FWP person, bells go off very quickly.

And if you keep doing it and start getting close, they will just most likely move him again or arrest you. It works like that.

[ttewor]

Scott thank you I know what I'm doing I'm not selfish and I am not stupid I have been asked by his wife and his kids to try and locate him they are all grown now and starting to have kids of there own they diserve to know who there Father is and at least what he did that caused him to not be able to come home the us marshals have programs to send mail without letting his new location or name be known that's the least he can do for them and as my other post the us marshals owe them a lot of money for child support and yes I do know that the Government past the laws to make shore that what was done to them kkwill not happen again would you want your kids to grow up on welfare in a dump trailer so please I'm not selfish just a little pissed off

[ScottGem]

I really don't understand why you have come here asking for help. You don't want to listen to advice. You have been given the SAME advice from the Feds, from your lawyer, from us. Yet you continue to ignore that advice.

I'm done butting my head up against a stubborn selfish stone wall.

[Fr_Chuck]

Scott is is the same problem that is wrong with so much of the US, people believe their personal desires and personal wants are more important than the safety of others or the law.

I don't know what it will take, I guess if he had lived though some of the things I have, your family threatened, you side car window shot out while driving down the road, and your back window of your call shot out wiile driving down the road. I was investigating the death of an inmate in lock down max security. Believe me I still don't know if it was the mob or the government that wanted me to be quiet but I did get the message.

I had a contract out on me at one point in GA, by a drug group, not the mob but I will tell you, this man does not understand who and how these people are. Heck they may decide to kill him just because he is the brother, and I know without a doubt, that if he is looking they people who are after his brother are watching him very closely hopeing he will find him.

[excon]

would you want your kids to grow up on welfare in a dump trailer so please i,m not selfish just a little pissed off

Hello again, tt:

Yeah, yeah, yeah! The feds ruined your life, and your whole family's life... You'll excuse me if I don't shed any tears. That's what they do. That's the way it is. They don't take anyone into the program for the persons benefit. They take them into the program because that's the only way THEY get what THEY want. Once the feds get what they want, they throw the people away.

Ok, you're a little pissed. So what? Join the club. Do you think that entitles you to anything? It doesn't. There's a few million people out there who've been done in by the feds. You're talking to one.

Does the program work?? Does ANYTHING the feds undertake work?? NO!! Does your brother NEED to be in the program?? I doubt it. Is he in danger?? I don't know, but you sure can't count on what they say.

But I like your attitude, so I'm going to see if I can help. I can't help much, because I don't think you can accomplish this task. Actually, I hope you can't, because if you can, then it would prove the last 27 years of your brothers life has been a sham, and that countless lives have been needlessly wasted. But, I love taking on impossible tasks.

Having said that, corruption works! From what I gather, there are only TWO avenues available to you. The medical route is one; the cop route is the other. Those are the only two groups of people that can connect you. Are you good at bribing people? Go see the prosecutor, the cops, the jailers, the feds, the jailhouse nurses, ALL of 'em. If you're careful, and you offer 'em ENOUGH money, you'll get what you want. If you don't, you'll go to jail - or worse.

excon

[ttewor]

hey now your talking to me on level ground and yes the medical is one way as to bribing anyone not going to happen if I had that much cash I would hire a ex cop PI to do the leg work .as to the program working no it does not I have already found another person in the program that I thought was my brother turned out that there were two people put into witsec at the same time and I tracked down the wrong one he was very upset that I could find him I'm not going to go into detail as to how only to say someone made a big mistake and gave me a page out of the file at SS with the new Name and SS number from that I was able to track down his prison records at allenwood and his court records its funny they wait to try the case after you do your time then release you at least it was in this case I even was able to track the small safe house's the feds used to keep him in seems they like to keep people in Washington dc area at first I guess for trials anyway it can be done the key it to just find the new name as for the feds they have made it clear that they are not going to help me any more then they haVE witch wasn't much as to me getting anyone killed we both played in the wrong circles in our day and survived that so this is not going to be a problem at best will be an inconvenance to him if the feds want to make him move. They had the chance to let me work with them on there terms and would not they are not going to arrest me and cause the whole rath of our intire family in the media as I'm not the only one who feels very betrayed by the feds. All it would take is a spark to cause a whole lot of noise .I,m 44 but still the youngest of the family and very protected in some ways not that its helped me much lol so give it a shot and see what help you can be

[ttewor]

To FR_Chuck can I ask if they will remove tatoo's from people who go through the program as my brother was covered in them or do they just say wear a long sleve shirt thanks

[Fr_Chuck]

Sometimes the gang tatoos, but normally they move you to some new area, get you a job and just leave you.

Often after a few years these people move on their own and are not really under any protection other than they can call for help if needed.

So after 20 years a person may have moved three or four times on their own and even the feds would not be 100 percent sure where they are.
Could find them normally easlier but they are not under regular constant guard.

And often even after being told not to, they move back to old habits and the such.

And I wll say if you found someone, it would not be someone that we ever placed, Only a handful of people would have known the ID and who it was going to, and those would not know where the person was going and so on. These files are on a need to know only, you trip so many warnings if you even access that name on a government computer.
If the police run that name it rings warnings in come government office.



Next in a good program, the Social Security office does not know the old and new names, not at all, the government merely puts these new names in with old work histories and the such at a high level, so there is no way to tell this is a person changing the social security number,
Some of the state protection services do or did it that way, but not the Federal program.

There should be no way at all to cross reference SS numbers And of course if someone at SS gave you any info, they also broke the law.
And I am sure after the feds discovered who they were , they are in jail also.

[ttewor]

I do not know if they got in trouble but what happened was I did a foia request on my brother that came back as dead but they also told me about a central office in dc that imidiate family members can send letters to that will be forwarded to the person in witsec so I sent them the letters from our family they sent me a reply a few months later letting me know that the letters were sent buut someone who was doing the research accidentally left one page in the returned papers of a person who was in witsec and I followed it thinking it was my brother all I can say was that the page was accidentally mailed to me but the ss department does have records of all the witsec people if your interested I can contact them again and get you the address and numbers if you want them