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    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #41

    Dec 22, 2010, 07:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Not sure where I come down on Net regulation. But I do come down strongly against a government takeover of the web without the authority coming from the legislature.

    Unfortunately that is exactly what happened yesterday when the Obama FCC ;without the authority of Congress ,voted themselves new unconstitutional powers to control the internet.

    It is up to the next session of Congress to smack the FCC down. Regulatory authority comes from Congress.
    Boy you parrot the right talking points perfectly. There was no "takeover of the web". I explained it to you earlier, it's about preserving the current freedom of the way the internet works.

    Explain to us how the US government took over the web?
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #42

    Dec 22, 2010, 07:15 AM
    The Net Neutrality Coup
    The campaign to regulate the Internet was funded by a who's who of left-liberal foundations.

    By JOHN FUND

    The Federal Communications Commission's new "net neutrality" rules, passed on a partisan 3-2 vote yesterday, represent a huge win for a slick lobbying campaign run by liberal activist groups and foundations. The losers are likely to be consumers who will see innovation and investment chilled by regulations that treat the Internet like a public utility.

    There's little evidence the public is demanding these rules, which purport to stop the non-problem of phone and cable companies blocking access to websites and interfering with Internet traffic. Over 300 House and Senate members have signed a letter opposing FCC Internet regulation, and there will undoubtedly be even less support in the next Congress.

    Yet President Obama, long an ardent backer of net neutrality, is ignoring both Congress and adverse court rulings, especially by a federal appeals court in April that the agency doesn't have the power to enforce net neutrality. He is seeking to impose his will on the Internet through the executive branch. FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski, a former law school friend of Mr. Obama, has worked closely with the White House on the issue. Official visitor logs show he's had at least 11 personal meetings with the president.

    The net neutrality vision for government regulation of the Internet began with the work of Robert McChesney, a University of Illinois communications professor who founded the liberal lobby Free Press in 2002. Mr. McChesney's agenda? "At the moment, the battle over network neutrality is not to completely eliminate the telephone and cable companies," he told the website SocialistProject in 2009. "But the ultimate goal is to get rid of the media capitalists in the phone and cable companies and to divest them from control."

    A year earlier, Mr. McChesney wrote in the Marxist journal Monthly Review that "any serious effort to reform the media system would have to necessarily be part of a revolutionary program to overthrow the capitalist system itself." Mr. McChesney told me in an interview that some of his comments have been "taken out of context." He acknowledged that he is a socialist and said he was "hesitant to say I'm not a Marxist."

    For a man with such radical views, Mr. McChesney and his Free Press group have had astonishing influence. Mr. Genachowski's press secretary at the FCC, Jen Howard, used to handle media relations at Free Press. The FCC's chief diversity officer, Mark Lloyd, co-authored a Free Press report calling for regulation of political talk radio.

    Free Press has been funded by a network of liberal foundations that helped the lobby invent the purported problem that net neutrality is supposed to solve. They then fashioned a political strategy similar to the one employed by activists behind the political speech restrictions of the 2002 McCain-Feingold campaign-finance reform bill. The methods of that earlier campaign were discussed in 2004 by Sean Treglia, a former program officer for the Pew Charitable Trusts, during a talk at the University of Southern California. Far from being the efforts of genuine grass-roots activists, Mr. Treglia noted, the campaign-finance reform lobby was controlled and funded by foundations like Pew.

    "The idea was to create an impression that a mass movement was afoot," he told his audience. He noted that "If Congress thought this was a Pew effort, it'd be worthless." A study by the Political Money Line, a nonpartisan website dealing with issues of campaign funding, found that of the $140 million spent to directly promote campaign-finance reform in the last decade, $123 million came from eight liberal foundations.

    After McCain-Feingold passed, several of the foundations involved in the effort began shifting their attention to "media reform"—a movement to impose government controls on Internet companies somewhat related to the long-defunct "Fairness Doctrine" that used to regulate TV and radio companies. In a 2005 interview with the progressive website Buzzflash, Mr. McChesney said that campaign-finance reform advocate Josh Silver approached him and "said let's get to work on getting popular involvement in media policy making." Together the two founded Free Press.

    Free Press and allied groups such as MoveOn.org quickly got funding. Of the eight major foundations that provided the vast bulk of money for campaign-finance reform, six became major funders of the media-reform movement. (They are the Pew Charitable Trusts, Bill Moyers's Schumann Center for Media and Democracy, the Joyce Foundation, George Soros's Open Society Institute, the Ford Foundation, and the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.) Free Press today has 40 staffers and an annual budget of $4 million.

    These wealthy funders pay for more than publicity and conferences. In 2009, Free Press commissioned a poll, released by the Harmony Institute, on net neutrality. Harmony reported that "more than 50% of the public argued that, as a private resource, the Internet should not be regulated by the federal government." The poll went on to say that since "currently the public likes the way the Internet works . . . messaging should target supporters by asking them to act vigilantly" to prevent a "centrally controlled Internet."

    To that end, Free Press and other groups helped manufacture "research" on net neutrality. In 2009, for example, the FCC commissioned Harvard University's Berkman Center for Internet and Society to conduct an "independent review of existing information" for the agency in order to "lay the foundation for enlightened, data-driven decision making."

    Considering how openly activist the Berkman Center has been on these issues, it was an odd decision for the FCC to delegate its broadband research to this outfit. Unless, of course, the FCC already knew the answer it wanted to get.

    The Berkman Center's FCC- commissioned report, "Next Generation Connectivity," wound up being funded in large part by the Ford and MacArthur foundations. So some of the same foundations that have spent years funding net neutrality advocacy research ended up funding the FCC-commissioned study that evaluated net neutrality research.

    The FCC's "National Broadband Plan," released last spring, included only five citations of respected think tanks such as the International Technology and Innovation Foundation or the Brookings Institution. But the report cited research from liberal groups such as Free Press, Public Knowledge, Pew and the New America Foundation more than 50 times.

    So the "media reform" movement paid for research that backed its views, paid activists to promote the research, saw its allies installed in the FCC and other key agencies, and paid for the FCC research that evaluated the research they had already paid for. Now they have their policy. That's quite a coup.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    We've been scammed, big time.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #43

    Dec 22, 2010, 07:15 AM

    The FCC has no authority to impose these new rules. If Congress gives them the authority then maybe there is merit to it .

    The Obots think they will bypass Congress in a number of important decisions coming up ,including the EPA imposing Kyoto like green house controls .
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #44

    Dec 22, 2010, 07:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    But I do come down strongly against a government takeover of the web without the authority coming from the legislature.
    Hello again, tom:

    If the government takes over the internet like it took over health care, I'm not too worried. That would be, of course, because there wasn't a government take over of health care... So, I highly doubt there's a government takeover of the internet...

    You LIKE government regulations about your meat and your drugs... Would you say big pharma and the meat industry were taken over by the government? I don't know... You might.

    In any case, given that you've already felt the effect of Comcasts' unbridled power, I'd think you'd be the first one to approve of these regulations...

    excon
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,514, Reputation: 1860
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    #45

    Dec 22, 2010, 07:25 AM
    Pssst, you do realise that the US Congress has ZERO powers to impose regulations on the GLOBAL internet ;)

    Just thought I'd throw that is for y'all..
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #46

    Dec 22, 2010, 07:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    We've been scammed, big time.
    No, you're believing a very poorly written slanted article and taking it as your gospel without doing any research whatsoever.

    Did you know that the internet is a distributed network with no central hub? How can someone take that over?

    If you don't believe in preserver net neutrality that's your choice, many of us enjoy the way the data is treated equally at present. If the status quo of neutrality is lost then you have this:
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #47

    Dec 22, 2010, 08:06 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:

    If the government takes over the internet like it took over health care, I'm not too worried. That would be, of course, because there wasn't a government take over of health care... So, I highly doubt there's a government takeover of the internet...

    You LIKE government regulations about your meat and your drugs... Would you say big pharma and the meat industry were taken over by the government? I dunno... You might.

    In any case, given that you've already felt the effect of Comcasts' unbridled power, I'd think you'd be the first one to approve of these regulations...

    excon
    I don't use Comcast . I pay a fee to a provider and in return have access. Are you telling me that the FCC is going to preserve that ? I think there is zero chance of that . Instead ;I think the government will decide winners and losers... just like they are doing to private insurance ;the auto industry , the banks .

    By the way ;the last place I would get my service from is a cable company. I've seen them in action. They get their power with a huge assistance from local governments that lock out their competition.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #48

    Dec 22, 2010, 08:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I pay a fee to a provider and in return have access. Are you telling me that the FCC is going to preserve that ?

    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #49

    Dec 22, 2010, 08:17 AM

    At what cost ? The cable providers now make a fortune and still divide content into packages. Is the FCC planning on setting price controls too ?
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #50

    Dec 22, 2010, 08:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    The cable providers now make a fortune and still divide content into packages.
    Not for internet access. It is indeed what they want to do though.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #51

    Dec 22, 2010, 08:45 AM

    They will instead charge a premium price for a larger comprehensive package. In case you haven't noticed ;they did make huge infrastructure investments in the $billions to bring their services to your home.

    At best all I see here is the FCC acting punitively against an industry for what it "might do".

    Meanwhile it is considered perfectly reasonable for a US run company like the postal service to charge premium prices for fast tracking deliveries.

    The best way to prevent this is to get local and state governments to end the local franchise monopolies in the services. (another example where government is the problem... in this case stifling competition) .

    But the biggest concern is that regardless ;content will be prioritized. The question is ;who does it ? You are content with the government making the call.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #52

    Dec 22, 2010, 09:04 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    content will be prioritized. The question is ;who does it ? You are content with the government making the call.
    Hello again, tom:

    In right wing land, you believe the governments prime job is to keep us safe. Toward that end, you cede power to the government to make THOSE calls.

    You trust 'em there. Why don't you trust 'em here?

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #53

    Dec 22, 2010, 09:06 AM

    Because there is no safety concern .
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #54

    Dec 22, 2010, 09:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    At best all I see here is the FCC acting punitively against an industry for what it "might do".
    It's exactly like antitrust laws. You're not punished until you break the law.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #55

    Dec 22, 2010, 09:16 AM

    In the US at least anti-trust laws did not exist until there was monopolies. So far ,the only monopolies that exist in the server business are the ones I mentioned above... the ones that are State sanctioned.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #56

    Dec 22, 2010, 09:17 AM
    [QUOTE=NeedKarma;2640753]
    No, you're believing a very poorly written slanted article and taking it as your gospel without doing any research whatsoever.
    No, you're just making assumptions again and ignoring the other side of the coin.

    Did you know that the internet is a distributed network with no central hub?
    Enough of the condescending bullsh*t.

    How can someone take that over?
    Enough of the misrepresentation, too. I have not warned of any government "takeover" of the internet. But if you want to know how someone can take it over in their country, visit China.

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