[liberty4497]

Awesome, who's Michael Buble, a singer right?

[Wondergirl]

Awesome, who's Michael Buble, a singer right?

Yes, a handsome young singer who is considered a "crooner," a la Frank Sinatra or Mel Torme. I mentioned him because there was a photo of him in today's newspaper. He'd performed this past weekend near me in Chicago, thus the accompanying article was a review of his show.

[Synnen]

Whoa, now. Wait a minute.

I think you are blowing that response from men out of proportion. Are they making lewd comments? Are they saying "Hey baby, let's go back to my place and screw"?

Or are they genuinely admiring a beautiful woman, and saying things like "you look very nice in that dress"?

I think, again, that your objectivity is skewed.

And I agree with Wondergirl. I'm not thinking of Johnny Depp in a blue suit or a gray suit or a pirate costume... I'm thinking of him in oh... a speedo or that same pirate costume falling off him. Not that I want to have sex with him--I just want to admire that view, thank you very much.

Looking isn't cheating! Looking, even sexually, isn't even thinking "oh boy, I want to have sex with HIM! (or her, as the case may be)". Looking is simply saying "oh wow, that's yummy".

Let's put it this way: if your bedroom is decorated perfectly nicely, but you look at a decorator's magazine and see ANOTHER bedroom decorated differently--and you say "oh wow! That's gorgeous!"---do you automatically decide that you MUST have that bedroom, and forget the stuff you already have even though you love it?

[Alty]

From one sexual abuse victim to another, I can't stress enough how much counseling would help you.

I understand your need for controlling everything and everyone around you, but it's not healthy, and it's not fair.

As others have said, your husband has a right to masturbate, it's his body, and he can do with it what he likes. You have that right over your body too. You know what it feels like to have that right taken away. Pushing your expectations, making demands of what he does, is control. No human has the right to control or force another to do what they want them to do.

You do sound very angry, not only at your husband, but at the world. Counseling can help you with that.

I'm sorry that you went through these things as a child. I myself was 5 when it started, and my abuser was female. Later in my life, as a teen, I was raped. Does that mean I should hate all women and all men, since I've been abused by both?

You can get help with this. I did. My help started here, on this site, with these wonderful people, people I now consider friends. I did do counseling as well, because I needed to in order to move on. I'm married, have been for 15 years. My husband and I have been together for 20, half our lives. The main thing I learned in counseling is that there are only two people that were responsible for what happened to me. My two abusers. Once you understand that, and let go of whatever guilt you have, and the resentment you feel towards everyone, you will heal, and you will be able to have a normal relationship with your husband, minus all the control.

I hope you seek counseling. That's the only way you'll be able to understand what everyone is saying about the porn, the control issues you have, and the hate you seem to have for all man kind.

[CravenMorhead]

I feel the need to add my two cents.

First off, you can't accept that you could be wrong. I read this thread beginning to end and you've made your opinion and thoughts clear. I fear that nothing we say here will change it because you've already made up your mind. You've just come here so that we can hold your hand and tell you that your husband is a mean man who's awful to you.

Not bloody likely.

On the top you have control issues. You have insecurities. You also have severe trust issues. This is mindless of your abuse. If this isn't enough to go to see a therapist then considering that you're in the process of forcing your husband to leave. You're micro-managing him as well as forcing him into your particular view of how a husband should act.

My solution for you is simple. Get Thee To A Therapist! Trust your husband and give him some leeway. Accept that he will hurt you, accept that he will lie to you, and most importantly accept that he has committed himself to you with the vow of Until Death Does Us Part. Also those lies he's tell you. They're for you sake. He is doing for you so as to not aggravate the situation. He is doing it to assuage your insecurities. Crazy eh?

You're thrust your issues upon him and that isn't fair for him.

I might get my male card revoked for this but I will let you in on a few trade secrets. Men like looking at women. It is a biological imperative. When the visuals, the olfactory, and the auditory signals are right we will judge a woman in their capacity as a mate. Then we will continue walking down the street and think no more of it.

We will also comment on how well you look. Because we think you look good. We will open the door for you and do other chivalric deeds because we are both trained to and it is polite. We aren't doing so we can leer or ogle. And to be honest, if people are ogling you after four kids and ten years of marriage, I would take that as a complement.

I also get the feeling that you're misreading most of the signals that men are putting forth towards you. We do flirt harmlessly. It is fun not trying to pick you up.

We are guys. For the most part this is what we do. We can't help it. You do the same thing. If you say you don't, then you're lying.

As for porn. It has been said here and on countless threads that porn is just a seed for the male fantasy. I hate to buck the trend but I don't like most main stream porn. I like seeing stretch marks, I like seeing less than perfect breasts. I like seeing scars or those little imperfections that make us all unique. Depending on the mood I go for most of the ethnicities and ages. I think I might have midgets somewhere in my 750GB porn collection on my computer.

I also masturbate each morning before I got to work. I have been married, and divorced, and I just got out of a long term relationship. The first woman never loved me and just married me because I was a good man. My last girl friend left me because... we were both tired of her ****. I tell you this because Porn and Masturbation were never the cause of either breakup.

The point is you're forcing your husband to accept life on your terms without even considering his terms. This is dangerous. You really need to step back and take stock of many things. Get help.

Good luck. We're actually rooting for you here.

[Clemintine]

Tell him you need to talk set a time and sit down with no distractions. Have you tried that? Say you really need to discuss this and if things are to work out you need him to open up, if he doesn't respond maybe suggest you two go to couples therapy

[ScottGem]

I'm going to jump in here with a couple of comments. First, to answer the question in your subject:
Why do men think it is there inalienable right to look at porn and have sex. To answer the first part its because the US Declaration of Independence endowed man with the inalienable right to pursuit of happiness. To answer the second part, some feel that way, others don't.

And you were asked, in the beginning to NOT use the Comments feature to follow up on questions. Please use the Answer options instead.

[liberty4497]

You guys think I am trying to control my husband! I am the last person in the world how can control anyone, especially him! I never said he couldn't masterbate, I am soooooo glad he does, so now I don't feel bad about doing it myself! Like I said I hate lying, and I DO NOT have to let my man look at other women naked! He started dating and eventually married me knowing how I felt about it! I feel that porn is part of a single lifestyle, and should only cross the lines of a relationship if it is agreed upon by that couple! I DON'T care what any of you say, He doesn't just get to look at other women naked!! He married me knowing how I felt! We have our own material! If that's not enough, then he should have let me know, he can easily open my mind to his views, (all he has to do is wine and I give in) so me controlling HIM isn't the issue, nor is masturbation! He told me he didn't do it, and he made me feel guilty when I did, I always told him because I can't keep anything from him, nor can I lie to him..

All I wanted to know is why men (maybe not all, but all I have ever met) need to look at other naked women in a relationship. AND they all feel they need sex all the time with or without a relationship! I know because they have told me! No man I know is shy about sexuallity...

Oh and by the way, we talked it out and;
He will get all the material he needs at his dissposal anytime he wants, as long as I know about the materials and we can have fun together sometimes!! I AM NOT anti-porn, it's a lot of fun, but when you get married you give up your single lifestyle! Tell your significant other your feeling and NEVER hide anything!


I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings by my venting, but quite honestly I am so sick of being undressed by males eyes every time I leave the house! Grocery shopping, getting gas, picking up my kids from school, etc.. No makeup, in sweat pants and a t-shirt!! It's not just a feeling I have, it's the stupid expression on their face when they think I don't see them, or like I don't know any other languages, or can't hear them, or I am a dumb blond bimbo... Wolf whistels, and being called "hey baby" or "come here", god only knows what else! If you want to look, fine, be my guest; but stop treating me like I'm here for your pleasure.. You just can't ignore everyone, some of them are too "loud"... No it's not every male, thank god! There was one guy who even befriended my husband trying to get me! Now that's really bad! I can't leave my house without someone doing it! We are all sexual beings, but we don't have to let everyone know it all the time.

Before you think I'm all into myself, if I were to rate my looks it would be "cabbage patch 'cute'" at best, in make-up! I don't have stylish clothes, I wouldn't be caught dead in a swimsuite, I mind my own business! I am so not Jessica Alba or Faith Hill, beauties that are meant to be seen! So I really don't understand!

Anyway, all I am saying is that porn is not a neccesity for a anyone, you can control what you type, click on, movies watched, etc...

You might think I hate men! I Don't! But, would you like to be hooted and hollered all the time? I can't pick up a gallon of milk without it! Society has to change! The world doesn't revolve around sex, but yet that's all I see and its not always men either!

also


Am I wrong to be mad that my 5 year old girl found "Girly Homework" at my husbands bachelor friends house? My husband thinks it's fine, because she's a girl, but I think she's only 5! It wasn't really left out, but easily found, my 3 year old girl was there too!

[Synnen]

I'm glad you and your husband talked about it. Communication in a marriage is very important.

I had originally written a very long comment regarding your skewed view of men and sexuality in general, and decided most of it was better off not said. I'm not going to change you, and you're not going to convince me.

I do believe that you do still need counseling regarding your abuse, because your attitude toward men and sexuality IS skewed, whether you can see it or not, and you're passing that skewed idea on to your daughters, which is doing them a great disservice.

[liberty4497]

I wish I could force my husband to take off his shoes, or put his garbage in the garbage can, I want mutual ground, decided together, as it should be. I came off as a b***** sure, just it other women naked that I have a problem with him looking at

[liberty4497]

He's the only one who sees me I'm the only one who sees him, why should it be any different with looking at others, unless it is something agreed upon. We have our own, we have books & videos, why something of which is secret and sneaky.

[liberty4497]

I don't want to control what he watches or when, I don't need to know, but if it's something he doesn't want me to see, like that night, I just wanted to see, but he wouldn't show me!

[Enigma1999]

I am sorry if i hurt anyones feelings by my venting, but quite honestly I am so sick of being undressed by males eyes everytime I leave the house! Grocery shopping, getting gas, picking up my kids from school, etc.. No makeup, in sweat pants and a t-shirt!!! It's not just a feeling I have, it's the stupid expression on thier face when they think i don't see them, or like i don't know any other languages, or can't hear them, or i am a dumb blond bimbo... Wolf whistels, and being called "hey baby" or "come here", god only knows what else! If you want to look, fine, be my guest; but stop treating me like I'm here for your pleasure.. You just can't ignore everyone, some of them are too "loud"... No it's not every male, thank god! There was one guy who even befriended my husband trying to get me! Now that's really bad! I can't leave my house without someone doing it! We are all sexual beings, but we don't have to let everyone know it all the time.

This kind of thing happens to me all of the time. I can see where you are coming from... I also agree with you to a certain extent.

When a group of men are yelling at me "Hey sexy" I feel so vulnerable walking to my car by myself. However, I try to blow it off. I don't think EVERY man is like this. When things are said to me, I am pretty witty in return, which makes everyone, including myself laugh.

You just need to do the same. Just blow it off. Obviously you are an attractive woman, which is why men look and sometimes say things.

On another note, I am glad that you talked it out with your Husband. You two need to trust and communicate with each other.

Like I had said before in a previous post, I still think that you need some counseling. Please don't be offended by that, I just think to deal with your unfortunate issues from your past.

I also understand that you did need to vent.

[liberty4497]

My children do not see these things, I am very careful of the things I expose them to, the way I feel is has nothing to do with them, they need to make their own way, nothing like this or anything negative is ever discussed so as they don't hear.

[liberty4497]

They have to figure things out for themselves, above all I teach them to be nice to everyone, even mean people, I will never expose my children to any kind of hate, even my own, growning up is hard enough without our parents problems waying on them.

[liberty4497]

I am sorry you think that I would tell my children anything negative about others, this is how I fell, if one day they come to me feeling to same way I will relate, but I will also try to show them all the positives there are as well...

[Synnen]

And you don't think not discussing it isn't a message in itself? Do you think preventing them from any kind of exposure is going to keep them from being aware of things?

Kids observe. You would be absolutely astounded at the things kids pick up by actions, and by what is NOT said. If you're getting hit on picking them up from school, do you not think they are learning from your reaction? Do you think they don't know what your moods are? If you get angry or embarrassed or upset at these catcalls, do you think they don't see that?

Your kids are exposed to negative things ALL THE TIME. Do you think not discussing negative things makes them go away so that they don't have to deal with it?

Again, your lack of counseling and dealing with your past is setting an example for your children, whether you like it or not, and whether you believe it or not. I have very distinct memories from my childhood about the way my mom reacted to something--sometimes I was scared by the reaction, sometimes confused---but I remember those occasions MUCH more clearly than my mother does. In one case, we were waiting to greet my dad when his ship came back in (he was Navy) and a guy made a pass at my mom. I was maybe three or four at the time. My mom doesn't even remember this, and it took until I was an adult to put it in context. At the time, I didn't understand why my mom was both angry and scared. I thought it was something *I* did, and started crying, which made her MORE upset. I remember her saying something rude to the man, and we went back to the car to wait. For a long time, I thought men that looked like that man were evil, because he scared my mom and scared me and made my mom angry and then I didn't get to see my daddy.

Your kids SEE how you react. They KNOW what your moods are. You influence them in every word you say and don't say, and in every attitude you adopt.

If you don't believe that and truly think you can keep your children from 1. knowing about sex 2. knowing how you feel about it and 3. know how you treat men and feel about them---well, you've got more blinders on than I thought.

Why do you avoid the idea of counseling so strongly?

[liberty4497]

Vented full seem! I am so not witty!

[CravenMorhead]

In response to your comments.

Doesn't he have any privacy? Do you need to know what is going on with all aspects of his life. I agree with Synenn. While you have worked this out, you haven't dealt with many of the larger issues in your lives.

You have won a battle but you're losing the war.

I hope you aren't going to settle for that.

[liberty4497]

For my kids when they are around they are the only thing there! Nothing else! No reaction, they have no clue that someone's trying to get my attention because their attention is on something else a lot more interensting!