[liberty4497]

I am not going to prevent them from learning anything! I don't treat men like nothing... I have friends of many different races, religions, and sexes gay and strait. I hate the thinking that porn is under every circumstance okay in a relationship

[QLP]

'he knows how I feel about porn! If you have to look at it you should have my permission,'

'i don't want to control what he watches or when, I don't need to know'

'If you are in a relationship YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to look at anyone else, naked or otherwise,'

'But he knows how I feel about it, he wants to do it we can do it together!'

'Self control people, you can't just do what you want when you want,'

'He is my whole world, I bend over backwards for him, and let him do what he wants,'

'10 years I thought he never masterbated, and then I walk in on him! How would you feel!'

'I never said he couldn't masterbate, I am soooooo glad he does, so now I don't feel bad about doing it myself!'

These are just a few of your statements. I could have picked out many more. How clear do you think your own thoughts actually are on all this? Almost everything you say is full of contradictions. This is not me trying to pull you apart. I am desperately trying to show you that you need some help here. You are picking at little things here and there and trying to justify them and completely avoiding looking at the overall picture of your own thoughts, feelings and behaviour. This is absolutely natural after abuse. It's a scary place to visit.

How many people have asked you to consider counselling in this thread? Why it this the one suggestion you do not comment on?

[Synnen]

I give up.

You won't admit you need help.

You won't admit that your kids are influenced by your actions whether you see it or not.

You won't admit that your views on men are skewed.

As a matter of fact--you have managed to NEVER comment on counseling this entire thread, though I think nearly every single person who responded gave you that answer.

You don't want help. You want a pity party. Well, I don't do those, so I'm leaving.

[Alty]

I'm going to step in and ask (for the third time) that you please stop using the comment feature to post. There is a post option, please use that to respond. The comment feature is for comments only, not for responses. If you need help figuring out where the post feature is, or how to use it, please ask, but using the comment feature makes it really hard to keep track of your posts, also, the comment feature only allows 250 characters, where the post feature doesn't have a limit. Thank you.

I too think that you should still consider counseling. Like Synnen I realize that none of us will get you to see why porn isn't wrong, or why men wish to look at naked women, and that it doesn't mean that he has a wandering eye. We can't change your view on things, and most of your views stem from your past abuse. It's time to get help with that, and I hope that you at least take that advice, for your own good, and that of your daughters.

[kp2171]

k.

I'm going to address this in steps.

any person has a right to self stim. Period. Done. He doesn't need to ask for a hall pass. He should be an attentive lover. But really... you get to decide when he can self stim??

sex is not a "wonderful perk"... really?? Yes... at its worst, I guess sex is the possible base reward of wasting time with another person. But I don't live in that place. Sex does not have to be about love... but it can most certainly be about celebrating life and wonder and joy. Sex is not some add on bonus. It is a fundamental part of who we are. And self stim is a fundamental part of learning about your sexuality. About keeping balance.

dear lord... how many people write in here about lovers who don't ever pay any attention to them at all??

so... what? I have the right to toss every lovers vibe in the garbage? To ban the buying of AA's?

no... I have the extreme honor of witnessing a lover engaged in full release. Seeing her tremble by her own hand. And that is a wonderful thing.

I don't care if I am on her mind. I don't need to be propped up. I find great pleasure in witnessing her joy.

ultimately... what is driving you is what drives most people. You are scared. Mortal. Fear is honestly what drives most people.

now... I want to thank you for coming here. You are struggling and you are seeking out help... and that is honorable. Its good. It shows a desire for something more.

...

a lover of mine once found a playboy mag of mine years ago and asked me "is This what you want?!?"... the honest answer is "no"... it was a vehicle to an end. A voyeur stim to distract my mind and let me be in the moment. Every time she prompted a need for sex, I paid attention. She wasn't necessarily wanting. Neglected. She was annoyed.

my last lover had three vibes. I didn't ask her to schedule when they were used. I didn't ask her to limit their use to no more than as often as I was laid. I didn't moniter the purchase of batteries.

now... if her vibe was getting three times more action than me, and I was unsatiated, then id want to talk.

but really... very few couples are lock in step dead on sexually compatible. He will be interested when you are tired. You will be interested when he is distracted. It happens.

I broke a sink once, in a pent up fit. Didn't mean to. My lover was spent, tired, done. Had nothing to offer me. I went downstairs, washed my face, and for some dumb testosterone driven reason, took my frustrations out by lifting on a immovable object. That moved. Oops. Superglue rocks.

my point is I have a long history of self stim while with another. Never once... not once... did I ever wish I was not with my lover...

tables turned. A lover needed lots of foreplay. She needed her skin warm from a hot bath or shower. She needed her skin touched by my hands. Patient. Slow. Warm. Comforting. Touch. She needed me pulling her to the edge of the bed. She needed my mouth on her. She needed to let go and release and trust I knew what she needed.

now... is it wrong that she wasn't satisfied by just being with me? no. is it wrong that it took time for her body to be most responsive to my being inside her? no.

it was not wrong that she needed a ritual. She needed a routine. She needed a pattern. She needed trust.

so... don't make him wired like you. He isn't wired like you. You don't want to date you, right?

he can absolutely be with you, present, engaged, inside, and all about you.

and he can also center on himself. And if he looks elsewhere for temporal stim, its temporal.

I get you don't like it. I get you don't like his lying. I wish he would stand up for himself. He obviously cares for you, doesn't want to upset you, but also knows he has a right to his own mind and body.

here is the crux.

if you don't like it and cannot stand for it... leave.

leave.

you don't get to stay and complain... just as he doesn't get to do whatever he is doing and demand you stay.

you have choices. He has choices.

personally... I don't expect every lover to think only of me for the rest of their lives. Its called being mortal. I am not that special, with several billion people on this earth. My lover will see other tempting beaus. Daily. Expect it.

but when your guy looks at porn and self stims... it is not about anything lacking in you... and that is the core issue here. You feel like you aren't good enough. He isn't looking for something better. He is just looking.

and it can be that simple.

I love fireworks. I've seen them for years and years. I know what they look like. I still like them. And the discovery of the new is fun. It doesn't diminish the rest of my life.. who I am, whom I love, what I cherish, what I value.

you have a right to choose what is acceptable for you. I hope you give your partner, or any future partner, some room to be themselves and to hold on to fantasty and immagination.

[kp2171]

As for the sexual abuse... this needs to be addressed on its own merit and not complicated by the struggles of your relationship.

My last love was raped as a very young teen and again as an adult. The tremors resonate throughout her life. But please don't twist his right to self stim (whether with visual aids or not) into your struggles tied to your past.

[RustyFairmount]

Apologies if this has already been posted. It's a long thread and I came in late. The notable line for me in your post is that you have sex, but he masturbates later. Clearly, his appetite hasn't been quenched. Why else would he be looking for more? Either the sex wasn't "good" for him, or he just wants more. Assuming you want to remain married your options are: Give him more sex, or accept that he takes matters "into his own hands" so to speak.

I don't mean to be vulgar, but to [semi] quote the old song: The purpose of a man is to love his woman and the purpose of a woman is to love her man. Give him more sex, or love/accept him for having an insatiable appetite.

If he's choosing porn instead of you... now that's a problem.

[Enigma1999]

Apologies if this has already been posted. It's a long thread and I came in late. The notable line for me in your post is that you have sex, but he masturbates later. Clearly, his appetite hasn't been quenched. Why else would he be looking for more? Either the sex wasn't "good" for him, or he just wants more. Assuming you want to remain married your options are: Give him more sex, or accept that he takes matters "into his own hands" so to speak.

I don't mean to be vulgar, but to [semi] quote the old song: The purpose of a man is to love his woman and the purpose of a woman is to love her man. Give him more sex, or love/accept him for having an insatiable appetite.

If he's choosing porn instead of you...now that's a problem.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread to get more acquainted with her whole situation. Just a thought.

[smoothy]

I am sorry if i hurt anyones feelings by my venting, but quite honestly I am so sick of being undressed by males eyes everytime I leave the house! Grocery shopping, getting gas, picking up my kids from school, etc.. No makeup, in sweat pants and a t-shirt!!! It's not just a feeling I have, it's the stupid expression on thier face when they think i don't see them, or like i don't know any other languages, or can't hear them, or i am a dumb blond bimbo... Wolf whistels, and being called "hey baby" or "come here", god only knows what else! If you want to look, fine, be my guest; but stop treating me like I'm here for your pleasure.. You just can't ignore everyone, some of them are too "loud"... No it's not every male, thank god! There was one guy who even befriended my husband trying to get me! Now that's really bad! I can't leave my house without someone doing it! We are all sexual beings, but we don't have to let everyone know it all the time.

Before you think I'm all into myself, if I were to rate my looks it would be "cabbage patch 'cute'" at best, in make-up! I don't have stylish clothes, I wouldn't be caught dead in a swimsuite, I mind my own business! I am so not Jessica Alba or Faith Hill, beauties that are ment to be seen! So I really don't understand!

Anyways, all I am saying is that porn is not a neccesity for a anyone, you can control what you type, click on, movies watched, etc...

You might think I hate men! I Don't! But, would you like to be hooted and hollered all the time? I can't pick up a gallon of milk without it! Society has to change! The world doesn't revolve around sex, but yet that's all I see and its not always men either!

also


Am I wrong to be mad that my 5 year old girl found "Girly Homework" at my husbands bachelor friends house? My husband thinks it's fine, 'cuz she's a girl, but I think she's only 5! It wasn't really left out, but easily found, my 3 year old girl was there too!

Most if it was HOW you presented what you said... sometimes the presentation is as important os the meal itself.

All guys look, and notice... (the ones that actually like women that is, and the others look at men... ignoring the freaks that look at children in that same way). Fact is most of us can do it without being ignorant or rude.

But with that part said... don't say that women don't qawk or look too, because they do. A lady friend of mine pointed it out to me one day about the women that were looking at me.. ( I hadn't noticed it before she commented). I too think I'm average looking... but as a plus I do reliably pass for being 10 years younger than I actually am.

Guys look... if they are looking at you, consider it a compliment. (assuming they aren't making rude animal noises). Guys might actually see you as being more attractive than you think you are yourself.

Not appoligizing for the few neanderthals that feel they have to wolf whistle or worse. Like that ever works for them. And I'd be surprised if it ever has even once.

[QLP]

Even with a wolf-whistle I think it depends on how the guy means it. It can be intended to be intimidating. It can be playing up to his mates. Sometimes it can be simple fun, just a little bit of appreciation. Yes it has become rather unacceptable since some men have taken it to extremes but not all guys mean to be terribly rude by it.

I remember once walking past a builder's yard. Because of the high fencing only my head and shoulders were visible to the builders. I got a very loud wolf-whistle. As I stepped past the gateway my huge pregnancy bump sailed into view. The guy who had whistled stopped dead, grinned sheepishly and said, 'oops, sorry missus, but you're still gorgeous.' Then he gave me a big smile and waved.

Was I offended? Hell no. Made a woman who was feeling like a beached whale smile.

That's the thing, it's about reading the context of comments and looks. Sure some guys see women as 'meat'. Others can appreciate what they see and still remember there's a person behind it.

[ITstudent2006]

I read other comments on your post and some of them are refraining from "picking" you apart.

Well... I'm going to and as a forewarning, it will be harsh.


he knows how i feel about porn!
Just because you feel that way doesn't mean he has too. I agree that a relationship is about comprimising on things each other doesn't like but looking at porn is his right.

If you have to look at it you should have my permission
Are you kidding? "Hey hun, I'm going to go watch some porn and masturbate. See you in a few!" I don't think so, you do not control him and he does not need to "ask" to go masturbate.

If you are in a relationship YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to look at anyone else, naked or otherwise, without their permission
Wrong. This; again, is your opinion and doesn't mean he's got to follow it because he's your husband. What happens if you're watching a movie and a pair of t1ts come on the screen? Does he have to turn and ask permission to continue watching the movie. (then again, you probably don't allow him to watch R-rated movies.)

In our society today it is okay to please yourself without any regard for others... Why is it that
It's because it's a free country. WHo else's business is it? If I want to rub one off then I will. I'm not going to make an announcement to everyone at my house because I care what they think about it. It's my body! Period.

How do i know that he isn't thinking about those girls while he's with me?
It's called trust and understanding that just because he watches porn doesn't mean he wishes them girls were here instead of you. There are many reasons to watching porn and it doesn't mean you want to have sex with the girls (or guys idk) in the film.

I am so sick of the world being so wrapped up in sex, like it is everything
It's a natural occurrence. Get used to it! We do it for fun, pleasure, reproduction, etc... again all I see is I, I, I and your husband has to suffer for it.

Being a woman means you give everything to your husband and your kids, getting nothing in return. i am just suppost to keep giving in because that's the way it is.. I really feel that all male think that women are here just to sick there **** in
Now you're just throwing yourself a pity party. (where's my invite? Must have got lost in the mail)

the way we get paid
You should probably ask for a raise! What does this have to do with your husband? I think you're just a sexist, sour at the gender because of incidences that happened to you. P.S. Get off your high horse and stop putting the female vagina on such a tall pedestal.

There are so many times that i have been hit on
Others would take this as a compliment. Geez I hope I never meet you!

like i am suppost to bend over and take it in the @$$.
Hmm... :D

Does anyone know what it's like to have been sexually abuse several times as a child by different people and then still be expected to want to have sex everyday
There are groups, people, centers to talk to. I feel that your trying to justify your actions and beliiefs on this and I don't think it stems from this. (ill tell you what I think when I'm done combing through your novel)

I HAVE A RIGHT
Kep telling yourself that!

I can't keep living like this!
I would hate to see how you act when a real situation is in affect!

jump off a cliff
Hmm... an idea perhaps!!


Ok, here's the jist of it. I think you hate life, whether its your job, family life, kids, husband a combination of stress in all of them aspects. You seem to hate men and dispise what we've became as a society. You put the pu$$y on a pedestal and are controlling and misinformed. Unkowledgeable, greedy and just plane sexist. (of course this is my opinion)

Everywhere in this post was about you, you, you. What you think, how you feel, what you want. Yes, a marriage is about each other but that DOES NOT mean you control him in anyway. I'm sure your husband wants to have sex more. Are you going to give it to him because its what he wants? (doubt it)

YOU NEED HELP!

[RustyFairmount]

No need to read the whole thread. I was responding to the OP's question, not the 4 pages of other people's comments.

[Enigma1999]

No need to read the whole thread. I was responding to the OP's question, not the 4 pages of other people's comments.

The ONLY reason why I said that, is because she has bigger issues going on here then just porn and masturbation.

She has yet to answer any of our questions regarding her past, OR why she has not gotten or won't get counseling.

I was ot trying to beoffensive towards YOU.

I just think that after 72 posts and some REALLY good advice, she would own up to her problems.

That's all...

[Cat1864]

Rusty, the op has several comments and posts of her own in this thread. Her participation is not limited to her question.

Also, I have to disagree with telling her to 'have more sex' because her husband isn't 'getting enough' when she has expressed strong feelings about 'bending over backward' to give her husband what he wants plus she appears like the idea of his masturbating so that he doesn't want more sex. Her main issue seems to be his 'lying' and hiding his actions. More sex will not fix those concerns.

[Alty]

Rusty, there's a reason that we suggest reading the whole thread. Is it tedious? Yes. But, when a thread is past 70 posts, there's a reason. It's usually because there's more to the question than was originally discussed in the original post.

If you're going to respond, then it's important to take the time to read the whole story, all the posts made by the OP and the people responding to her, not just the first post.

There's no need to get defensive. You didn't read the whole thread, and as a result your advice wasn't well received, or at all accurate. Had you read the whole thread you're advice may have been more on point.

You don't have to read threads that are long, that's your choice, but if you're not willing to put in the time, perhaps it's best to let those that have read the whole thing be the ones to offer the advice, because they know what's going on. :)

[kp2171]

Its called perspective. Conversation. Dialogue.

The original poster has accumulated 29 posts since the OP'ed question.

If you are too lazy to read through a page or two of simple postings, then you just don't care that much to be present and active in the real dynamic of the thread. And its called a thread because it is more than just the OP'ed question, ja know. But whatever. You can ignore pages of relevant content.

Which is fine I guess.

AMHD doesn't demand you have half a clue about the info that gets revealed through common discourse.

But really... strictly answering just the OP'ed ? Without additional perspective or attention... well... its lazy. Incomplete. Even bordering on disrespectful at worst.

Sterile and disconnected at best.

[ITstudent2006]

"and doesn't take into consideration merged threads where the focus has changed."

... and this is a thread where the focus definitely changed. This is not about porn or masturbation anymore. This is about issues the OP has deep within her regarding the male gender, trust issues and to be honest I think depression as well.
She seems to hate the gender and her beliefs on what we have become as a collective sort. She see's us as nasty animals just looking for sex, underpaying females, self-pleasure (if that was wrong most of us would be punishable, male and female)

[88sunflower]

I have been reading this thread from your first post. It caught my eye since my husband and I also had porn issues. Far different then I feel yours are. But you said some things that caught my attention that no one else seemed to address. Which is fine. Now I am.

First I see you stated "He told me he doesn't masterbate..." Seriously? I don't think I have met a man yet that hasn't or still doesn't masterbate. If he tells you he doesn't then he is lying. He is lying to protect your feelings. Does that make him a bad person for protecting you from the hurt you would feel? You have made him ashamed of himself and a perfectly natural act that every person on the site does I am sure.

Second I noticed this "He told me he didn't do it, and he made me feel guilty when I did, I always told him because I can't keep anything from him, nor can I lie to him.." Well now what's this about? I see this as you also were doing it when he wasn't around and just admitted it when he asked? Are you saying here you have also touched yourself alone? That's how I see it.

I give big fat greenies to everyone here. I see the issues. Again why have you not answered the counseling questions? I was in counseling with my husband. Not for porn but that topic came up every time. We had our issues also but I soon realized porn can be an addiction like drugs or alcohol. You can't point blame and make him feel ashamed. That makes him hide it more.

I agree with every one that the issue is with you personally. Your full of hurt and torment from the past and your blaming the rest of the world for it. I am so sorry you were abused. But as Alty knows and others that only involves you and the abuser. Not those around you. Did you get help when that happened? Or is all that still bottled up inside?

Can I ask would it make you feel better if he went out and was with a real woman? Let me guess you could then validate it all. Say to us the porn caused his cheating ways. Porn is not the issue, you are the issue at this point. I think if you spoke to a professional you would see things in a new light.

As far as the cat calls and men looking and hitting on you so what. I love it when I know a guy is watching me. It makes me feel sexy when I might be having a down day. In fact I do ogle sometimes in return. Heck I even look at women. Does that disgust you also? I am not afraid to check out a hot girl. Doesn't make me gross or gay. I can appreciate beauty in all forms whether it be man or woman. Do I touch myself after? No. Would I if I were at home? Depends. Have I? Yes. Will I again. You bet!

Please take a minute read over your thread again. Look at what you posted. Read your hurt and anger. Lets address that with the rest of us. The porn is only minor here, if anything at all.

On one final note good for your husband for not changing his ways. I am sorry he has to lie about it but he must love you enough to make the choice to lie rather then hurt you. Doesn't that say something?