[Wondergirl]

Obviously from everything I've said it should be clear that your version of salvation is a complete misunderstanding of scripture.

Or, your version of salvation is a complete misunderstanding of Scripture.

The Gospel is a very simple statement. Why complicate it?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Wondergirl:

There's a very basic concept that you seem to be NOT getting. Knowing and understanding salvation IS NOT THE SAME THING AS ACTUALLY HAVING IT.

And here's the difference between you and me. I believe that I have the understanding of it. And yet am not certain of my own status. You on the other hand do not understand it, as far as I can see. Yet you claim to be saved, postively.

[dwashbur]

Wondergirl:

There's a very basic concept that you seem to be NOT getting. Knowing and understanding salvation IS NOT THE SAME THING AS ACTUALLY HAVING IT.

And here's the difference between you and me. I believe that I have the understanding of it. And yet am not certain of my own status. You on the other hand do not understand it, as far as I can see. Yet you claim to be saved, postively.

In other words, you're hopelessly confused about the whole situation and have a burning desire to share that confusion with as many others as possible.

Salvation is simple to understand. And of course even you acknowledge that we can know that we have it. Your dichotomy between "knowing and understanding" and having is false. I don't know where you got it, but throw it back.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Dwashbur:

The gospel is not only the message of salvation. The gospel is the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that the whole Bible is very simple to understand ?

[Wondergirl]

The gospel is not only the message of salvation.

No, the Gospel IS the message of salvation.

The gospel is the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

The Gospel is IN the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that the whole Bible is very simple to understand ?

Did we say that?

[classyT]

Quoting classyT:
I know I am saved because the bible says clearly:

If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in thine heart that God raised him from the dead...THOU SHALT BE SAVED. Romans 10:9

I have confessed and I do believe and therefore I am saved!

Ephesians 1:13 says I was sealed with the Holy spirit when i believed the gospel check it out...In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

Clearly you already believe you're saved. So why on Earth would you even care to know what I think ? Obviously from everything I've said it should be clear that your version of salvation is a complete misunderstanding of scripture.

Oh! I've read everything you have said and one of us is misunderstanding scripture.
;)

Headstrong, I gave you clear scripture of what God says concerning salvation and this is the best reply you could come up with! Come on! Really? That's all you got for me? BACK your thoughts up with solid scripture and put them into context.

God is indeed sovereign, He is holy and He is LOVE. THAT is what Gensis to revelation is about.. his LOVE. It isn't about predestination. The apostle Paul never preached that to the unbelieving world. When he spoke of predestination it was directly to the church and must be put into context.

Whosoever will may come... WHO SO EVER. Is that a lie? God is not a man that he should lie. Where is your liberty Headstong? How do you have a relationship with someone you aren't even certain hears you. I mean if you have no assurance you are a part of the predestinated crowd... what is the point?

If you had some small understanding of the love of God to us, I think you would understand why I do care what you think. I care where people spend eternity. I'm a classy, caring compassionate gal... so sue me.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting classyT:
"Oh! I've read everything you have said and one of us is misunderstanding scripture."

I very much agree that God doe not lie. AS WE NORMALLY UNDERSTAND LYING. After all He is not a man.
BUT... much information HAD BEEN SEALED UP (hidden in plain sight) but not possible to understand CORRECTLY.
UNTIL NOW. For example Daniel 12:4. And much much more. That we might discuss... later, MAYBE.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting classyT:
"Headstrong, I gave you clear scripture of what God says concerning salvation..."

I could also, and I have posted clear scripture concerning what God says about salvation, but someone or other always comes up with a "reason" to ignore or to deny what I've posted. One of your favorites is to claim "context." I agree that context is essential. But often the context is much greater than you will acknowledge. That is why I harp on THE WHOLE BIBLE. For example 1 Thessalonians 1:3 and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 are to me clear as crystal that FAITH IS WORK, by God's DEFINITION. GUARANTEED !!!

That means our believing (the verb form of faith) is work that we do. Hence our believing ABSOLUTELY CANNOT GET US SAVED. Again... clear as crystal... to me. Of course you are going to deny, or claim "out of context," whatever, etc. So please, is that the best YOU can do ?

[Wondergirl]

FAITH IS WORK, by God's DEFINITION. GUARANTEED !!!

Yes, once we have accepted the Gospel (with the Spirit's help), it takes lots and lots of work (again, cooperation between the believer and the Spirit) to remain in faith.

Hence our believing ABSOLUTELY CANNOT GET US SAVED.

No, of course not. It's WHAT we believe (with the Spirit's help) that saves us. Doing the "work" of believing saves no one.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting Wondergirl:
"It's WHAT we believe (with the Spirit's help) that saves us."

No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved.

One thing and one thing only gets anybody saved. That is Christ having selected them, and then having made payment for their sins. That is all. The believing that occurs in the life of such a person, after they are saved, is a RESULT of God having given that person a brand new soul.

[dwashbur]

Quoting Wondergirl:
"It's WHAT we believe (with the Spirit's help) that saves us."

No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved.

This is nothing but playing with words. As such, it's meaningless.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting HeadStrongBoy:
"Christ having selected them, and then having made payment for their sins."

That quote is not just playing with words. It's a fact that is supported by the Bible. And it is the basis of personal salvation.

[classyT]

Headstrong,
The verse in Daniel 12:4 has nothing in the world to do with salvation or God lying.

Give me some verses that you use to back up your thoughts. I mean verses on predestination, Christ not dying for all of mankind only the ones he has hand picked. I want to see what it is you are basing your beliefs. Thanks.

[dwashbur]

Quoting HeadStrongBoy:
"Christ having selected them, and then having made payment for their sins."

That quote is not just playing with words. It's a fact that is supported by the Bible. And it is the basis of personal salvation.

More wordplay. You know that's not what I said was playing with words, so why don't you address what I really said?

[HistorianChick]

i just got saved today and i want to start my life with the lord. are there any suggestions on how to more better my relationship?

Poor thing. Ask a simple, sincere question and end up with a debate. Not what you really wanted to hear, was it? For what it's worth... these debates help all of us become stronger in what we believe, open our minds to what others believe, and help firm up our faith.

What do you need to do to better your relationship? I'd just suggest some things that have helped me:

1. Get involved in a good church in your town or area. You'll find many real people there, not just "church people." Sometimes one of the hardest things when you're on the outside is seeing that there are any people like you in church... you'll find that there will be many people your age and many people who can help answer your tough questions. You'll start to make friends as you become involved.

2. Start working with an outreach program. Maybe with your church - sometimes even singing in a choir can help you learn more how to serve and be a blessing to others.

3. Read your Bible daily. You can go to the book of Proverbs (right in the middle of the Bible) and read one a day - there are 31 chapters. Read one chapter for the day of the week. Today is the 13th - read the 13th chapter.

4. Pray. Praying isn't really about words, but about talking to God. It's telling Him all the things that you are feeling, asking Him for help through problems, finding out ways that you can show Him that you're thankful for what He did for you.

5. Get some good Christian music or find a christian radio station. I have mine on when I'm in the car. Sometimes its not just for the "i've got music on" but more for the message of the words.

6. Ask questions. Keep coming here and asking questions. People will give you their honest opinions and tell you what helped them.

Take care, dear! And Happy Spiritual Birthday! :)

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting dwashbur:
"More wordplay. You know that's not what I said was playing with words, so why don't you address what I really said?"

From my perspective you look exactly the same way to me.

[dwashbur]

Quoting dwashbur:
"More wordplay. You know that's not what I said was playing with words, so why don't you address what I really said?"

From my perspective you look exactly the same way to me.

Are you for real? Let's recap.

You said:

"No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved."

I responded:

"This is nothing but playing with words. As such, it's meaningless. "

Rather than respond to my words regarding this statement:

"No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved."

You replied this way:

"Quoting HeadStrongBoy:
"Christ having selected them, and then having made payment for their sins."

That quote is not just playing with words."

But the quote about "Christ having selected them" was NOT what I said was playing with words. I said this was playing with words:

"No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved."

And I was very clear about it.

So you are still dodging the real issue. If you don't have an answer, just admit it. Stop playing evasion games, because everybody can see through them.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting dwashbur:
Quoting HeadStrongBoy: "No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved."

That statement also is not playing with words, though you may perceive it that way. It was part of a thread that needs to be followed IN CONTEXT. Clearly you have taken it out of context.

[Wondergirl]

Quoting dwashbur:
Quoting HeadStrongBoy: "No. WHAT we believe is still work. And as such cannot even contribute to getting us saved."

"By grace are you saved through faith. It is the gift of God, not works, lest any man should boast." Eph. 2:8,9

You can't get it any clearer.

[Fr_Chuck]

And with that we will end this discussion.

We basically stole the thread from the OP, ** I am so sorry I missed it happening myself***

To the OP I am glad you found the Lord and good luck in the journey