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KMC6296 · Jan 4, 2007, 03:10 PM

I have a 7 year old in 2nd grade. They are learning their multiplication tables, but my daughter is just not retaining anything we go over. We have tried just having her memorize and we have tried explaining that 2 x 3 is 2 added up 3 times. I have tried flash cards, quizzing her, etc.

Any suggestions on how we could get this to stick would be GREATLY appreciated!

J_9 · Jan 4, 2007, 03:14 PM

or 2 x 3 = 3 + 3, which is 3 2 times.

KMSRyana · Jan 4, 2007, 03:17 PM

Try using real examples. Get 2 groups of 3 crayons or dolls, anything she can relate to, and put into something that she can see versus having to use her imagination. You'll need to vary what she's multiplying (2x3, 4x4, 5x2, etc.). I hope this works for you, if not, let me know and I'll try to give you another method, but I think this will be the simplest for you and for her. Good luck!!

s2tp · Jan 4, 2007, 03:24 PM

Lol J_9 that didn't really help... you being a smart butt?

KMC, I am not a teacher, but I remember being a little confused in school about how math worked. I kind of remember the teacher finally bringing out beans (or something more visible and countable).

I was a more hands on learner so when I could SEE the beans multiply it all connected better than just seeing numbers and symbols flashed in my face.

Maybe only try two multiple tables a day, and not 10 or 20 like most teachers seem to do... so as not to overwhelm her.

I would definitely have to say not to show any impatience with her cause that would discourage her greatly. When you or her seem to be getting tired of it, switch to something positive so that the multiples don't have a negative relationship to them... such as you and her being frustrated...

I also remember them chanting the multiples in a fun way... with funny voices and clapping..

Good Luck!

J_9 · Jan 4, 2007, 03:29 PM

No, not being a smart butt this time. But at the age of 42 I still have a problem with multiplication. I can grasp 2 x 3 in that it equals 3 + 3, but have a hard time with the 2 + 2 + 2. See that is the numer 3, 2 times.

It is a miracle I made it all the way through all of my algebras and Math for Nurses.

I STILL USE MY FINGERS!! :eek:

KMC6296 · Jan 4, 2007, 03:31 PM

Thanks s2tp. I will try using something visual. We hadn't thought of that!

J_9 · Jan 4, 2007, 03:35 PM

Yes, visual works very well!!

You can use foods for subtraction and division, she gets to eat them to see the answer

s2tp · Jan 4, 2007, 03:35 PM

Hehehe yeah I know me too! I was a straight A student through elementary then Jr high just kind of hit me and math and I stopped being friends! Ive been trying to reconcile the relationship... but we fought so much in high school, I don't know what else to do.

We could agree with Math A an B, but when it came to algebra we would get half way through it then start butting heads again. I hope to meet up with math again in College, and hopefully we will be mature enough to put the past behind us. I don't want to date or get into any serious statistics... but I would like to hold hands for a while... hug maybe... you know.. just get along?

LOL OK that was a fun story... I think looking at math that way may actually help me get over my grudge of fighting it for so long... I know its my fault, isn't acceptance one of the stages of grief?

s2tp · Jan 4, 2007, 03:35 PM

Hehehe yeah I know me too! I was a straight A student through elementary then Jr high just kind of hit me and math and I stopped being friends! Ive been trying to reconcile the relationship... but we fought so much in high school, I don't know what else to do.

We could agree with Math A an B, but when it came to algebra we would get half way through it then start butting heads again. I hope to meet up with math again in College, and hopefully we will be mature enough to put the past behind us. I don't want to date or get into any serious statistics... but I would like to hold hands for a while... hug maybe... you know.. just get along?

LOL OK that was a fun story... I think looking at math that way may actually help me get over my grudge of fighting it for so long... I know its my fault, isn't acceptance one of the stages of grief?

J_9 · Jan 4, 2007, 03:40 PM

One fun thing I learned last year (yeah I am 42) was 8 x 8 = 64

"I eight and I eight till I was sick on the floor"

s2tp · Jan 4, 2007, 03:46 PM

Darn it I couldn't give you reputation... again...

LOL well I like that one! Never heard it either.. I will have to memorize it now since I am 24... tehee

Man I am so horrible at fractions, long division, decimals... ugh I used to get all of it, but I hit a point that I couldn't go forward, I actually went backwards... So frustrating

asterisk_man · Jan 5, 2007, 07:41 AM

For what it's worth, the only thing important about the "multiplication tables" is the memorization. This is one of the few topics where I believe it makes sense for rote memorization. Just go over the table again and again and again until she remembers. Thinking "2*3=3+3" will never be good enough because it will never work for larger numbers. If she has to sit there and do 9*7=7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7 she will require an impossibly long time to complete moderately difficult problems and she'll have no chance at learning how to do long division.

My brother had a similar problem when he was in school. The only remedy was for my mother to go over the topic every day with him until it finally stuck.

You may consider using one of the websites online that can generate arbitrary math problems to get problems for her to do. But whatever method you try (and any one is probably as good as another) you must pound away at it until she has it memorized, not until she "understands" it.

Capuchin · Jan 5, 2007, 07:49 AM

Just so I can give my view.

I never managed to memorize the multiplication tables, and always end up doing weird routes to get to the answers.

If you asked me 12x7 I'd probably add (12x10)/2 to 12x2 (normally I split the problem into a combination of 1, 2 and 10 times tables)

In this way I don't ever remember anything, just remembering my own rules to do it. I get by fine, sure I can't shout it out in half a second, but it only takes me an extra few seconds, nobody needs to speed multiply anyway.

Maybe this is because of my godawful memory for facts.

I don't know how you would teach that to someone... I was always taught to memorize but I never could

asterisk_man · Jan 5, 2007, 09:56 AM

Capuchin, I'm definitely all about using your technique when one of the numbers is greater than 10. I do much the same as you, like multiplication by 15 is multiplication by 10 + multiplication by 10 divided by 2. And I have a similar problem and dislike for memorizing facts. But when my daughter reaches that point in her education I'm still going to make sure she memorizes the tables... and can use the technique you described.

Tuscany · Jan 5, 2007, 10:24 AM

Hi KMC-

I am a teacher and I have to tell you that your daughter is not alone in her struggle with multiplication tables. Unfortunately multiplcation is a foundtation for many principles of mathematics.

Relating multiplication to the real world is a great idea. As well as drawing pictures. For example have her draw a group of 4 stars 2 times... then write out 4 x 2 and have her count them to = 8. Another great strategy is to get flashcards and practice with her. If she gets 10 right she gets a reward. Give her extrinsic motivation to learn her facts.

But please don't think that she is the only one struggling with this. It is very common

Capuchin · Jan 5, 2007, 11:11 AM

I guess what I was trying to point is that understanding is way more important that memorization.

Tuscany · Jan 5, 2007, 11:18 AM

Oh boy do I agree with that statement Capuchin! If the student knows how to get the answer but does not have it memorized that is fine too. Also, with the invention of calculators many students (like my LD kids) use a calculator for all math facts no matter what the operation.

asterisk_man · Jan 5, 2007, 01:54 PM

But that was the exact opposite of my point. I agree with you for most things. I think it's wrong to memorize a set of problems, the student will only be able to solve nearly identical ones. But with multiplication you just must have them memorized. I contend that the multiplication table is so basic that without knowledge of it the student will have much trouble succeeding in future math studies. Would you say that it's OK to not know the "addition tables" because the student can just count on his/her fingers?
I don't need to convince anyone of this fact I guess, now that I've put it out there I'll let the reader decide for themselves.

Capuchin · Jan 5, 2007, 02:51 PM

Oh yes asterisk, I wasn't trying to refute your point. Learning the tables is the best way to learn multiplication. I failed to learn the tables, but through all the failing I learned my own way to formulate the tables.

The OP is having troubles with the child memorizing, so probably developing understanding of how to form the results is worth a try, and there are some good tips already in this thread for that.

My point was that at the end of the day, understading is the real aim, not memorization, although that's a plus it neednt be a target.

Does that make sense? I've had a long day :)

Elisha Grey · Jan 16, 2007, 08:06 PM

Speaking as a retired math teacher my advice would be as follows.

I think it is a great mistake to try to understand math at an inappropriate level. Mathematics is different from most subject in that, most subjects you need to understand them before you can use them. In mathematics it's just the opposite: you must use it before you can understand it. So tell your second grader to forget about what all this might mean, but simply to memorize the multiplication table, much as she might memorize the lyrics to a song. No gimics or tricks, just memorize it and it will make sense later.

One of the losses of much of our modern education is the downplaying of memorization. If you want to help her encourage her to memorize--strengthen it by learning a poem a month or so. It will be a great help to her later.