[wannahep]

Claiming belief as fact. Seems dangerous

[wannahep]

Way too hostile and arrogant

[wannahep]

Arrogant

[Starman]

Well, Duh!!


It seems that the only point to the original post and all the pro-God anti-Allah commentary since, is to cheer for Christianity and the Bible and denigrate Islam and the Quran. This attitude has more in common with sports fans cheering their own team and bad-mouthing their opponents than with constructive dialogue between sincere people of faith. It doesn't contribute to understanding between Christians and Muslims, and it invites the scorn of unbelievers. If those results are satisfying to you, cheer on, I guess.

Telling the differences between two religions constitutes cheering for one and bad-mouthing denigration of one or the other? Please point out where in my post I denigrated Islam. Actually, the essence of what you are saying is don't discuss the subject forcing me to remind you respectfully that this is a discussion forum


BTW
As much as I try to see the point of the original post as having the malicious intent you accuse it of having, I just can't detect it. All I see is a person seeking a discussion. Maybe we aren't reading the same original post.

As for scorning, scoffing, or mocking from unbelievers, that's to be expected:

KJV
Jude 1:18
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.


2TIMOTHY 3:3-4.
Knowing this first: that scoffers (mockers) will come in The Last Days, walking according to their own lust, and saying, "where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell aspleep (God's chosen prophets of old died) all things continued as they were from the beginning of creation."

As Morganite said, the question you asked is a valid one. It's the misundersandings of your question that make it seem invalid. For example, you merely asked whether Christians and Moslems worship the same God. Or whether Allah is Jehovah. But this was misunderstood as a call to Christian arms based on the following perception of your question.

"How is Jehovah better than Allah? Can you please provide examples?"

[galveston]

Little vaid argument?

Considerable argument! Including the words of the Book Muslim hold sacred.

kiwimac misses the point. The question is not what Muslims think of the Bible or vice versa, but are the two deities the same person by different names. By the way, why is it that some folks can't stand to be disagreed with? Calling someone arrogant or pompous is abusive. Can it be that they have no intelligent argument to offer?

[ashleysb]

Just a question to help further the discussion:
If Allah and the Christian God are the same, why would they tell two prophets (Muhammad and Jesus) to worship him in separate ways?

[Fr_Chuck]

Does merely a name change who he is, What if in my personal relationship I feel lead to call God "NORM" is that wrong, God of the Old Testment had many names, depending on the relationship of God to man at that time, or expressing a relatonship.

We have to look past ( esp the English) words, since this language while believing it has some special control on Christianity is not, The God of the Spanish translated bible, or the Russian bible or the Greek bible or the Arabic bible are all the same God.

[Starman]

Does merely a name change who he is, What if in my personal relationship I feel lead to call God "NORM" is that wrong, God of the Old Testment had many names, depending on the relationship of God to man at that time, or expressing a relatonship.

We have to look past ( esp the English) words, since this language while beleiving it has some special control on Christianity is not, The God of the Spanish translated bible, or the Russian bible or the Greek bible or the Arabic bible are all the same God.

Differences of name pronunciation are irrelevant to identity. It's what the believers claim their deity requires of us that matters.

[magprob]

When the true aim of Islam is to convert all Christians to Islam or kill them, then you can bet some Christian folks are going to get riled. If you think this is a simple, peacfull discussion between two peacful religions then you are delusional. All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us and I will be the first in the trench to do just that. If Islam is such a wonderful, peaceful religion, then why don't all of the peacful ones do something to stop this mess? They do not want to simply because they all believe Christians should convert to Islam , what they call the one true religion, or die. Tell me, when did you ever hear of Christians giving them the same ultimatum? You haven't. The Christian GOD and the Islam god are not the same in the hearts of the two different believers. Now you can sit here and argue that point until hell freezes over and you will just continue to show how uninformed you truly are.

[talaniman]

Sorry Mag, but I don't think any American Indians will go along with that considering they were heathens to be converted. The rhetoric you hear from parts of Islam are really no different than what some Christians have done in the name of God. From the Inquisition to the settling of America conversion was through killing and torture.

[ordinaryguy]

When the true aim of Islam is to convert all Christians to Islam or kill them, then you can bet some Christian folks are going to get riled. If you think this is a simple, peacfull discussion between two peacful religions then you are delusional. All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us and I will be the first in the trench to do just that.... The Christian GOD and the Islam god are not the same in the hearts of the two different believers.

If both believe that they should kill each other in the name of religion, where's the difference? Sounds exactly the same to me. Of course, the likes of magprob and the jihadis are (praise be to God/Allah) a tiny minority in both religions.

[kiwimac]

When the true aim of Islam is to convert all Christians to Islam or kill them, then you can bet some Christian folks are going to get riled. If you think this is a simple, peacfull discussion between two peacful religions then you are delusional. All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us and I will be the first in the trench to do just that. If Islam is such a wonderful, peaceful religion, then why don't all of the peacful ones do something to stop this mess? they do not want to simply because they all believe Christians should convert to Islam , what they call the one true religion, or die. Tell me, when did you ever hear of Christians giving them the same ultimatum? You haven't. The Christian GOD and the Islam god are not the same in the hearts of the two different believers. Now you can sit here and argue that point untill hell freezes over and you will just continue to show how uninformed you truely are.

Perhaps you might consider gently that you are wrong. I have studied Islam for over 25+ and disagree with you completely.

[Fr_Chuck]

Perhaps you might consider gently that you are wrong. I have studied Islam for over 25+ and disagree with you completely.

So you will agree that the people who did the terrorist acts on 911 were wrong and it was terrorism or political attack, not a good thing, I just have had trouble myself finding a Muslim that would speak out against the 911 attacks and also the current killing from BOTH sides of the killings in Iraq.

I have talked to many and they see to fall short calling what their fellow Muslims did was wrong and against their faith

So I am assuming you are telling us all of the killing on 911 and all of the different sects killing each other now in Iraq is against their religious teachings ?

[talaniman]

So you will agree that the people who did the terrorist acts on 911 were wrong and it was terrorism or political attack, not a good thing, I just have had trouble myself finding a Muslim that would speak out against the 911 attacks and also the current killing from BOTH sides of the killings in Iraq.

I have talked to many and they see to fall short calling what thier fellow Muslims did was wrong and agaisnt thier faith

So I am assuming you are telling us all of the killing on 911 and all of the different sects killing each other now in Iraq is against thier religious teachings ?

Please give me a break with the broad brush opinion, by your way of thinking all priests are pedophiles and perverts. I submit many are here in the US just to get away from what you speak of and because YOU don't know any why assume they don't exist.:mad:

[Fr_Chuck]

No, honestly I have asked this question 100's of time, and I have never, not once had a Muslim tell them that these attacks and killing were wrong.

Sorry, you will find priests that tell you the truth about the small number and that the news shows the history going back 20 years. And that more school teachers molest than preists every year.

But I hear people say they have studed this or that, or that they are Muslim and they are peaceful but when I ask them to denouce what happened and tell me that these people were wrong, I have never had a Muslim tell me that.

[Starman]

When the true aim of Islam is to convert all Christians to Islam or kill them, then you can bet some Christian folks are going to get riled. If you think this is a simple, peacfull discussion between two peacful religions then you are delusional. All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us and I will be the first in the trench to do just that. If Islam is such a wonderful, peaceful religion, then why don't all of the peacful ones do something to stop this mess? they do not want to simply because they all believe Christians should convert to Islam , what they call the one true religion, or die. Tell me, when did you ever hear of Christians giving them the same ultimatum? You haven't. The Christian GOD and the Islam god are not the same in the hearts of the two different believers. Now you can sit here and argue that point untill hell freezes over and you will just continue to show how uninformed you truely are.

True, if I thought that Christendom and "Islamdom" ever have been or are now in good terms with one another then I would definitely be delusional and uninformed.

[talaniman]

No, honestly I have asked this question 100's of time, and I have never, not once had a Muslim tell them that these attacks and killing were wrong.

Sorry, you will find priests that tell you the truth about the small number and that the news shows the history going back 20 years. And that more school teachers molest than preists every year.

But I hear people say they have studed this or that, or that they are Muslim and they are peaceful but when I ask them to denouce what happened and tell me that these people were wrong, I have never had a Muslim tell me that.

I have. And I know for a fact that just as there are many branches of Christendom so it is in the Muslim world. To judge another because he will not act or behave or speak as you would wish is... not good for a man of the cloth or anyone else, in my opinion.

True, if I thought that Christendom and "Islamdom" ever have been or are now in good terms with one another then I would definitely be delusional and uninformed.

To put it correctly Christians are not in tune with each other as are Muslims not in complete harmony either, so if they are differences among them, then there are bound to be differences between them. In my opinion they are both more alike than either cares to admit... As in DENIAL of the real truth... They are closely alike. None no righter than the other.

[Starman]

To put it correctly Christians are not in tune with each other as are Muslims not in complete harmony either, so if they are differences among them, then there are bound to be differences between them. In my opinion they are both more alike than either cares to admit............As in DENIAL of the real truth.........................They are closely alike. None no righter than the other.

First I would like to clarify:

We are not in any position to condemned anyone to eternal damnation based on his or her present beliefs. God values sincerity and understands when one is mislead and he doesn't destroy based on ignorance but gives each person a chance to make an INFORMED decision. From a Christian viewpoint that informed decision is based on the certain knowledge that Jesus died for our sins and that salvation comes only by accepting it and taking the necessary action to avail ourselves of the benefits.


About similarities and differences between and among:

True, there are certain doctrinal differences within the Christian ranks. But ultimately, all Christians acknowledge Jesus as savior and that is the unifying factor. In short, when the time comes for God to begin doctrinal clarification, Christians will not have to begin to accept Jesus-since they already have. In contrast, Buddhists, Shintoists, Moslems, and all other nonChrisatians will have to make a complete doctrinal about face.

So from a Christian standpoint, it is primarily that crucial fact--the acceptance or rejection of the Ransom Sacrifice which drastically separates Christian from Moslems.


Are we worshipping the same God? I would say that barring such practices as human sacrifices and other such obviously demonic things, it depends on how God views each person's heart. The intention might be honest and pure and it is appreciated. But the manner might need some adjustments. In his mercy God is just and it's best to let him decide that on an individual basis. But ultimately he will require that we listen to what he tells us is the WAY to worship and our reaction to that requirement will determine whether we gain eternal life.

[magprob]

Christians: One GOD is revealed in scripture as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Islam: There is no god but allah.

Christians:Jesus is the Son of GOD, one with the Father, sinless redeamer of sinful man through his vicarious death on the cross and resurection from the dead.

Islam: Jesus was only a man, a prophet equal to Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses, all of whom are below Muhammed in importance. Christ did not die for man's sins; in fact Judas, not Jesus, died on the cross.

Christians: Sin is proud, independent rebellion against GOD in active or passive form.

Islam: Sin is falure to do allah's will, falure to do one's religious duties as outlined in the "five pillars of faith."

Christians: Christ-GOD's Son-died for our sins (on the cross) according to the inspired
Word of GOD.

Islam: Man earns his own salvation, pays for his own sins.

I haven't studied Islam for 25 years since it took me only a few hours to see the truth.
All I am saying is that the facts represent the truth, they are very different indeed. If you are a muslem then good for you, as a matter of fact, isn't it time for you to squat facing Mecca and pray? Well, chop chop, better get to it or you know what, no twenty seven virgins for you! Oh, and by the way, if you attack my country again, I'll see you in the trenches.

[ordinaryguy]

I have talked to many and they see to fall short calling what thier fellow Muslims did was wrong and agaisnt thier faith

So how about you, Friar, are you willing to call what your fellow Christian magprob advocates wrong, and against the Christian faith? Or should we interpret your silence to mean that you agree?

All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us