[Fr_Chuck]

My issue with some of the comments is that this thread is about Allah and God and the use of those words as being the same person or god.

While many threads wonder, I would ask why someone who is a atheist would get into the discussion since they don't believe in either as being real at all. They have no input as to this discussion, it was not a discussion if they are real, or if you should believe, or if you should be preaching about them.

And honestly after a couple private messages they are obviously done with some anti religious feelings almost to the point of being a set up for a agruement.

I would ask that if you wish to discuss if God is real, start your own thread on that, or find one already in the works. If you wish to add to the ongoing discussion of Allah and God, and even how the various religions have reached their translations of the words, fine,

I perhaps should have moved these to a new post, which is a fine discussion that I would love to see from time to time, but not on an existing post please, lets keep the post slightly more directed

[letmetellu]

letmetellu wrote: "Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife..."

Here is the problem I, and other atheists have with proselytizing. In the quote above you say the afterlife is a fact. Sorry, it is NOT. It is your belief. Nothing more. Don't try to sell something as fact when it is not. False advertising. Please, stop acting like you have something on the rest of us. All you have is a belief that is unprovable, and from what I can see, also damaging to relationships between members of the same society.

As Americans, we need to leave our religion at home. The public spaces are not christian, and you cannot make them so (though I believe that is what you want. But, it is just my belief, I no way to prove it.).

I am very concerned about our country devolving. Your Christianizing of the country is not helping!

I know it is a choice and it is what I believe, I also know what you believe or at least what you don't believe. But someday in the future you will hope that I am wrong for if I am right where does that leave you.

[talaniman]

God/Allah, same thing, but leave it to us stupid humans to argue about it.

[galveston]

In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.

[kiwimac]

In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.

Little vaid argument?

Considerable argument! Including the words of the Book Muslim hold sacred.

[Fr_Chuck]

But if you look ( not defending Islam of course) but they have a comparison, in the end, there is a person or spirit of light that is looked for.

I have always when trying to discuss Christianity with people from Islam, say could this light not be Jesus, or the Son of God.

And actually in Christianity for several hundred years, there was some debate if Jesus was the true Son of God, or merely a son in a more general term used and picked by God for the mission of salvation, and even a few groups that viewed Jesus the man as being saved somehow at the last minute, ( the same basic teachings as found in the Quran)

The idea and acceptance that Christ was the Son of God is now fairly universally accepted for Christians. ( and I say fairly, since I don't know every denomination and their teachings, I know some don't accept the trinity)

But that was actually part of one of the Churches Synods and voted on, and declared the rule, But there were early sects normally rejected by main stream that did have other teachings.

Little vaid argument?

Considerable argument! Including the words of the Book Muslim hold sacred.

In his context, he said, ( God of the Bible) so according to the Bible, not according to the Quran or other writings, And according to the bible and according to church doctrine, there is little argument today.

According to the Quran or according to a Buddhist, or other faith that does not accept the teachings of the bible, then in general there is not an argument only a disagreement on which if any writtings are true and valid.
For that belief, in which is true, hinges the major issue.

But personally, I have always related Allah and God, even in the context of Islam and Christianity as being the same God, there are many who will agrue they are not. All of these people who believe either way are fine people, who are trained in bible study much more than I am, and both sides present great view points.

So I guess in the end, I have to ask, to the Christian does it matter if Islam believes it is the same God or not. And to Islam does it matter if a Christian believes it is the same God or not. To each there are so many other teaching ideas that separate us, I am not sure if this one is ever agreeable to the majority of either group.

And of course to those that don't believe in either religion, to them it does not matter at all, since both are false in their belief.

Now I will throw this addition out for an idea, if someone who does not believe in either, that means they rate both as false, does this make them the same, in their mind, since they are false, or are they two separate false gods in their mind? Or if they don't believe do they care

[ordinaryguy]

The Bible is not the Quran. Yaweh is not Allah. Christians are not Muslims. Atheists are not believers. This discussion is not interesting.

[Starman]

In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.

I'm not sure what you mean by "little valid argument".


Here are some of those whom the scriptures call sons of God:

1. Angels

Job 1:
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

2. Perfect humans such as Adam
Luke 3:38 (Genealogy of Jesus)... "the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."

3. His only begotten Son Jesus or the Word as he was referred to in heaven before coming to Earth.

Luke 1:34-35
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."

1 John 4:13-15
We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

4. Redeemed humans who are spiritually begotten via the operation of holy spirit.
Romans 8:14
... ", because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."

The following website provides more examples
:Son of God

So I guess all these scriptures would be unacceptable from an Islamic viewpoint.

In order to answer the original question more directly, we have to ask ourselves just what it is that differentiates us from one another. Isn't it appearance and personality? Yet identical twins aren't considered the same person. In fact, that applies to everything else that might be visually identical. So even if the entity which Islam and Christianity referred to as God were identical in appearance, power, or anything other than personality, they still wouldn't be the same God due to differences in actual personalities or in the way which the personalities are described.

So you have very effectively, in my view, answered your own question by describing Allah as a God who doesn't offer sonship and Jehovah as a God who does.

[ordinaryguy]

I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?

In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.

So I guess all these scriptures would be unacceptable from an Islamic viewpoint.

Well, Duh!

So you have very effectively, in my view, answered your own question by describing Allah as a God who doesn't offer sonship and Jehovah as a God who does.

It seems that the only point to the original post and all the pro-God anti-Allah commentary since, is to cheer for Christianity and the Bible and denigrate Islam and the Quran. This attitude has more in common with sports fans cheering their own team and bad-mouthing their opponents than with constructive dialogue between sincere people of faith. It doesn't contribute to understanding between Christians and Muslims, and it invites the scorn of unbelievers. If those results are satisfying to you, cheer on, I guess.

[talaniman]

Reminds me of the arguments in my old neighborhood, between the Bear fans and the Packer fans, but there were 6 Bear fans, and 1 Packer fan. Bear fans always won the arguments, no matter the Packers would win the game. Not a lot of those who follow Allah weighed in, so this was so lopsided that the similarities could not be put forth, but a lot of negativity by the Christian crew sure buried the other side. Similar to life I suspect, but so sad that people would be so closed minded because of their doctrines. Doctrines notwhitstanding, I think its all about semantics.

[31pumpkin]

In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?

And what a surprise it is that the topic did turnout to go for political correctness!
A RELIGIOUS debate turned pure SECULAR.
Wow, maybe there will be more Muslims debating the question, since there wasn't much feedback so far from them.

[NeedKarma]

Fr_Chuck agrees: Both sides Christianity and Islam both don't accept the teachings of the other, there is no place for mutual grounds since each believes the other is false.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the view of all different religions (not just Christianity and Islam)? That all others are false?

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes most, not up on some of the middle eastern or some that are more accepting of everyone and everything

But since this post was directly referring to Allah and God as in the Christian God the reference was made as to the information in the thread, not wanting to include other religions not mentioned in the link or other religions I have no firm info on.

[ordinaryguy]

Not a lot of those who follow Allah weighed in, so this was so lopsided that the similarities could not be put forth, but a lot of negativity by the Christian crew sure buried the other side.

Wow, maybe there will be more Muslims debating the question, since there wasn't much feedback so far from them.

Can you blame them? You'd have to be "a suicider" to willingly throw yourself into a den of ferocious Christian lions. If I was a devout and moderate Muslim, I'd lay low too, like a Packers fan in Chicago.

Doctrines notwhitstanding, I think its all about semantics.

To those of us who aren't entrenched on either side, it's about semantics, but to the true believers on both sides, it's about TRUTH and LIES, GOOD and EVIL. To call it semantics is to show that you're really on the side of EVIL in the EPIC STUGGLE OF THE AGES, not to mention being "politically correct" <shudder>.

[Morganite]

In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?

To each his own. And why not? I will hazard a guess that your 'God of the Bible' is not the same 'God of the Bible' that other Bible believers find in the Bible and worship.

Although Muslims have borrowed a lot of text from the Hebrew and Greek Bibles they are generally more at odds with the character and attributes of the Christian God than they are with the Jewish God. There is a dichotomy between Jewish and Christian theology that is not reducible to a common understanding. Many Christians find it difficult to reconcile much of the behaviour and pronouncements of the OT God with the Christ-in-God - or God-in-Christ - of the NT.

Nevertheless, as you are probably aware, this is a subject that has generated a lot of heat and a little light, and is far from settled.

For example: The Muslim God has no Son. The Christian Allah has a Son. I'd say that therein lies a significant difference that cannot be resolved unless and until either the Muslims admit they are wrong, or else the Christians admit that they are wrong. I predict the continual theological version of a Mexican stand-off.

M:)RGANITE

[talaniman]

To call it semantics is to show that you're really on the side of EVIL in the EPIC STUGGLE OF THE AGES

My wife already used this line on me Friday night when I wanted some nooky. Guess who won that struggle?:D

[Morganite]

I don't think it's a valid question.

I, as a Catholic Christian, have no problem using an Arabic name for God, that is, Allah.

But...I do NOT agree with Islam's description/explanation of what God has revealed to man.

The question is certainly valid. Perhaps it calls for a greater depth of the attributes and characteristics of each - Jewish God Christiand God and Muslim God - but that is the challenge of a Q&A forum such as this. Thus, it encourages us to stretch ourselves and learn more, even when the invitation calls us to wander into terra incognito.

The question probes much deeper than merely accepting or rejecting the language used to name God eg: God or Allah or Yahveh or El, etc, it goes right to the heart of who and what God is according to each faith.

Muslims are strictly monotheistic, whereas most Christians are less so, which is a cause of contention between Muslims and Christians. Muslims insist that Allah has no Son. Christians insist that Allah has a Son.

The name of God a person uses depends on which holy book they accept as divinely inspired scripture. The idea that there is and necessarily must be one and ONLY ONE true scripture, and one and ONLY ONE correct interpretation of that scripture is the source of countless religious wars, feuds, fights and arguments. I hope this isn't the start of another one.

I note what you say, and agree with you. How fortunate that all we can get to blows with in this forum are words.

M:)RGANITE

[RickJ]

Muslims are strictly monotheistic, whereas most Christians are less so

??
How someone could think that, I have no clue. Christianity is absolutely a monotheistic religion.

I know of no group that calls itself Christian, with the exception of Mormons, that professes anything but monotheism.

Do you?

[rishy39]

Lashing out because I disagree.

[wannahep]

Absolutely!