[Anopersuser]

Usually visiting a restaurant in town on Friday afternoons, we often see a family where the father (his wife isn't there often, just sometimes) acts strict, but rather than a parent, more like a 20th century dictator of a totalitarian government-dictator ship state (no mentioned, no forgotten) to his two children (who seem to be like 10-14 something), consisting of two daughters. There seem to be no major problem with the children, but he shouts at them for everything he doesn't like. The girls are always required to be dressed up when going there, wearing a white blouse and a black skirt. Last Friday he was shouting at the little girl for accidentally spilling on her blouse sleeve, and when she said she was sorry for the mistake, he told her not to talk back like that. She begun to cry, and was comforted by her bigger sister, but when everybody were looking at them, even the waitstaff, feeling sorry for the girls (one waitress girl was about to cry), but the father just took his daughters with him, and they all left in their car.

The girls often look afraid of doing any mistake which would cause their father to shout at them, and just have to sit down and eat, if not he refers to them as "careless girls" who "can't behave like a girl shall" and how their behaviour is "unacceptable". Usually nothing happens. Sometimes he at least tell them they did well.

They don't seem to like being dressed up, but I can accept if he wants them to do that sometimes (even if it's not the kind of restaurant most people dress up for), but it's no excuse for threatening them like that. The funny thing is that their father himself shows up wearing ordinary clothes.

We also require our daughter to dress up for special occasions in a blouse and a skirt even if she doesn't like it, but even if we act strict sometimes, we would never threat her anything like this. Sometimes parents raise their voice, but what he does is far much more than acceptable.

First time we saw them was years ago, when they were just 5 or something. I only know that their parents are upper class (have "always been") and very strict, not much more, our daughter doesn't know them from school. But I really feel poor for these two little girls. Who knows about their home conditions? If I ever meet them or one of them alone in town, I would not hesitate to ask them about their problems. Once I asked a waitress girl in the restaurant about how often they came their, and she said usually Fridays (the same as us).

What do you think about this threatment? I will not take our daughter (12 years old) there anymore for a while, since she became so sad seeing all this last Friday, she has been crying almost for the rest of the weekend (she doesn't want to go anymore), feeling sad for these little girls. And I can just agree with her.

[Fr_Chuck]

So why did you not walk over and tell him such behavior was not socially acceptable.

[Anopersuser]

I've heard someone who did it, he just said it was his children.

[DoulaLC]

And that is the truth... they are his children. He sounds very strict, with high expectations... perhaps a cultural situation? You mentioned this is how it has been for years, so it is the norm for their family.

Uncomfortable situation, no doubt, but unless there was evidence of neglect or abuse, there is not much anyone can do.

I think you are wise to visit on a different night to avoid further upset.

[Anopersuser]

Sad. Even if we are angry at our daughter sometime, we always comfort her if she begins to cry and tell her how we love her. But he just seems to continue to shout at them, even when they start crying, or shout even more. They also have emotions.

[QLP]

There used to be a woman who yelled and screamed at her 2 children at the bus-stop just outside my home. Every single morning. My children used to hear it, well anyone within a hundred yards probably could in all honesty, and it did upset them. Not to mention it was quite early on a morning so it was sometimes the thing that woke us all up.

I had a word and explained that although it is entirely her decision how she chooses to discipline her children it was not fair that her behaviour was upsetting my children, and that ourselves and the neighbours being woken by the volume was unpleasant.

The problem vanished. I discovered later that she started using a different bus-stop. I had hoped that it might make her think about her behaviour to her children. I suppose a whole lot of other people had a new problem to contend with but at least we didn't have to hear it anymore.

It is up to this guy how he disciplines his kids, even though I'm sure it would make me very uncomfortable to witness. However if his behaviour is upsetting other people then those people have a right to let that be known. I assume the fact he is shouting makes it impossible to ignore, rather than it being people going out of their way to listen in. If he is upsetting the waiting staff and other customers I would think it was time the restaurant management had a quiet word. Maybe a word in their ears if not his?

[Anopersuser]

Why did she scream? Did they behave bad? How did it end? Was she drunk? He is definitely not. But as she seemed to scream psychotic with as high noise as possible, he first look into their eyes, then shouting, striking fear into his daughters.

[Alty]

The way I see it you have a few options.

1. Instead of just feeling bad, do something about it, tell him that you find his behavior appalling and that your own child was crying because of the way he treats his daughters.

2. Continue to do nothing and just ignore the behavior.

3. Go to the restaurant on Saturday instead of Friday so you can avoid this man.

Unless he's beating his children or neglecting them, there's little you can do legally. Personally I'd go up and tell him exactly how I feel about what he's doing, but that's just me.

Good luck.

[Anopersuser]

When you talk of it, I think I will go there next Friday, without our daughter and tell him. Our daughter is crying now again. The problem is that if he stops shouting or going there, I don't how often his daughters experience the same at home.

[QLP]

In response to your further question, the children in question were a little boisterous because they were bored waiting for the bus. Nothing a little distraction wouldn't have taken care of. The mother wasn't drunk, just not very effective at handling her own kids. Seemed to think the louder she shouted the better. Didn't seem to occur to her it wasn't actually having the desired effect.

Got to spread the rep but agree with Alty. I would be inclined to tell him his behaviour was ruining my meal and upsetting my kids.

[QLP]

Sadly there's nothing you can do about how he treats his daughters in general, unless you personally witness violence or neglect. I know, we all feel bad when we witness this sort of thing but all you can do it what is right for you and yours in this case.

[Anopersuser]

Do you thin I shall tell him in front of his children, or try like if he goes away or something (like returning from the toilet).

[Anopersuser]

Thanks. Our daughter is still crying. We comfort her, she knows we will never threat her so (even if we thik behaviour is important too, and dress for special events). She says she feels sorry for the girls, and have enough of seeing this for years.

[DoulaLC]

If it will make you feel better, say something, but not in front of his children. Just be prepared to hear the same thing... they are his children. I don't know of too many parents who would welcome such an encounter as no one likes being told how to raise their children or that they aren't doing it correctly.

Who knows, maybe it will give him something to think about, but I doubt it.

Again, unless there were a true safety concern, there isn't anything you can do.

Be careful not to draw it out with your daughter and inadvertently make it harder for her. Simply explain that some mothers and fathers do things differently than you do, including discipline. She has likely seen that in her friends' homes that some of the rules and expectations may be different.

[Anopersuser]

What do you think of starting with asking him why he seems always requiring his daughers being so well-dressed (they mostly wear white blouses and black skirts, sometimes white button shirts and black pants) but he shows up wearing ordinary clothes?

[QLP]

How he dresses and requires his children to dress is his concern.

Your only real grounds for confronting him is that the shouting is affecting you and your child enjoying your meal in peace. I agree with Doula that it would be best to try and keep his children out of it. Yours too. All you can reasonably do is try and have a quiet word about the fact that his behaviour is upsetting your child and that it is unpleasant to hear his shouting whilst you are trying to enjoy a family meal.

I do feel sorry for his kids, but it's just not something you can fix.

[Alty]

I agree that you should pull him aside to talk to him. When you do remember that he will most likely not like it that you're trying to interfere with his kids. He's a bully, and bullies don't like to be told to stop.

The only reason I'd confront him is in hopes that if enough people do, he may finally realize that what he's doing is affecting his children, and the people around him. Will he change after you talk to him? Unlikely. Will he change if many people talk to him? It's a bit more likely but still up to him.

I feel bad for his kids too, but unless you actually see abuse, there's not much you can do.

As for your daughter. Remind her that sadly this is the way the world is, that there are many kids out there going through much worse than those two girls. What you do about it when you see it is what counts. There are those that see someone beating a child, molesting a child, or worse, and they do nothing. Then there are people like you that cannot sit by and watch a child being treated poorly, and it's people like you that make a positive difference, even if only in the lives of your children.

Be proud that your child has this much compassion for others. She's obviously a lot like her mother, and that's a good thing. :)

[Jake2008]

I find it strange that you've witessed the verbally abusive behaviour of this father toward his children, over five years, yet say now that if you had an opportunity, you would talk to the girls. Why now, and not during the years prior to now.

You can talk to the waitress, and note all the fine detail of the nature of that families conversations, and their apparel, right down to observing the older child comort the younger one.

If this is a regular part of your outing with your own family, I have to ask you, why did you not leave when their behaviour was apparently so bothersome that your own daughter is disturbed to the point of crying. Why would you subject yourself and your family to this, and not leave.

Do you stick around and watch the aftermath of a good car crash too?

There is much you could do, beyond nothing.

You could re-visit this establishment the following day, and let the proprietor know that the behaviour of this family is disturbing to you. Let him know what you have observed, and the reaction of staff as well. Staff should not have to cope with an abusive father anymore than an abusive drunk.

You could offer an olive branch, and call the girl's mother, and ask if their girls could come over to visit, or for a birthday party.

You could also confidentially visit the school counsellor and tell her of your concerns, and the obvious verbal abuse you have personally witnessed. If what you say is in the ballpark, they are most likely quite aware of problems with the family.

You could call the mother, an ask her over for coffee. Perhaps she is as isolated as her children are.

You could stop gossiping and guessing, and instead extend simple human kindness and see if you can't make some positive moves to better their lives and broaden their friendships.

Being critical and unhelpful will only serve to further ostrasize these girls.

Step up and do something.

[Anopersuser]

As I said before, I've seen their mother too, but just sometimes. She also acts strict to them, telling them what to do and not, but at least not shouting at her daughter's that way. The girls behave very well, but no mistake seems to be accepted.

[Anopersuser]

Thanks for posting. I will tell him. I don't fear abuse, but that they have no childhood, and are just always supposed to appear perfect. A girl spilling on her blouse sleeve by accident is no reason to be so mad. They seem to always do their best.