[Angelic1111]

This is a condo that has been vacant for years - what about the homeowners dues - I am not responsible for them am I??

[AK lawyer]

this is a condo that has been vacant for years - what about the homeowners dues - I am not responsible for them am I???

That would depend on the lien laws in your state. Which state is it?

Does the HOA have a judgment lien?

[Angelic1111]

The state is Michigan and I do not know if there is a lien - is this public information that I could find out - I do not want to ask the HOA - I know what there answer will be - if there is a lien placed against this condo - what type of legal reference would this be where I could look for it in the public documents??
And thank you so far for helping

[AK lawyer]

Your title report should show any recorded liens. What does it say?

You are going to get a title report before you buy, right?

I don't see anything in the Michigan Code specifically about a lien for HOA dues. The lien statutes appear to be here.

But there is mention of such a lien here:

(2) With the following exceptions, a judgment lien has priority over a lien recorded with the register of deeds after the notice of judgment lien is recorded:
...
(f) A lien for unpaid assessments or charges due to a condominium association, homeowners' association, or property owners' association that arises from or pursuant to recorded restrictions that run with the land.
...

It means that the HOA dues lien has priority over a judgment lien even when the judgment lien is recorded first. Nothing about tax liens. Tricky thing about tax sales is that if you buy property foreclosed for one tax year there might be other tax liens still on the property which haven't yet been foreclosed.

But as I said, I don't know by what authority a HOA dues lien can be filed. But maybe it can.

[Angelic1111]

Well maybe I should get title insurance - this is an auction and I am not sure I will be getting the winning bid - it might even be pulled from the list just before the auction for several reasons according to the sherrif, whom I spoke with yesterday...

Will I be responsible for back taxes owed to the county for property that I purchase?
Who is responsible for any mortgages, liens, back taxes, association fees, or other
Encumbrances attached to the property?
Tax Sale properties may have other, non-county, liens against them. It is the responsibility of the
Bidder to determine the liabilities that may exist on a property before bidding.

Please Note
In accordance with the General Property Tax Act, Public Act 206 of 1893, as amended, MCL 211.1 TO 211.157, ("the Act") the property offered for sale was foreclosed for unpaid delinquent real property taxes. Pursuant to the Act and by Judgment of the Wayne County Circuit Court, Case No.09-014685 PZ. redemption rights to the properties have expired and fee simple title to the properties has vested in the Wayne County Treasurer, in his capacity as the Foreclosing Governmental Unit in the County of Wayne, and all liens against the properties under Michigan law, except for future installments of special assessments and certain liens recorded by the State of Michigan, were cancelled. All existing recorded and unrecorded interests in these properties were extinguished, except visible or recorded easements or rights-of- way, private deed restrictions, or restrictions or other governmental interests in these properties imposed pursuant to the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, Public Act 451 of 1994, as amended, MCL 324.101 to 324.90106. It is the responsibility of prospective purchasers to research the existence of any liens or encumbrances not cancelled by the Act or Judgment of the Court. Prospective purchasers are also responsible for examining the title, location and desirability of the property to their own satisfaction prior to the sale. ALL PROPERTY IS SOLD "AS IS". The Wayne County Treasurer makes no guarantee, expressed or implied, relative to the title, location or condition of any property. Please Note: As the Foreclosing Governmental Unit, the Wayne County Treasurer now offers the property for sale to the highest bidder.
I guess my final question regards - my due diligence - if there is a lien against the property for HOA dues, where would I go to find this out?? What department of the city that the property is in, would be able to supply me with this information??
I thank you so much for this information - I really appreciate it.

[ScottGem]

My feeling is that you will be responsible for the dues, taxes and any other encumbrances on the property. While its unlikely there is still a mortgage (otherwise the mortgage lender would have paid the taxes), there may be other liens placed on the property and the property cannot be transferred until those liens are satisfied. You can go to the county courthouse and look up to see if any liens have been field.

[joypulv]

Liens can be seen at City Hall.
Title searches are generally done the last day in case any last minute liens are filed.
If the sheriff said it will be pulled, chances are it will. Happens all the time, even with vacant properties, although usually more with occupied ones. Many are repeatedly postponed. Some are sold sort of under the table, even right in the middle of bidding, and there's nothing you can do or find out; they can just say it was withdrawn. Auctions can be very frustrating.

[Angelic1111]

Thank you so much for your input - I did read the Michigan lien statues and I thank you so much AK for the link - I did manage to find the county register of deeds, but since this search is something I need to pay for - I am going to wait until a few days before the auction - also just to see if gets pulled
Scott - LI - tis where I am orig from ( Nassau County) - this is a county deed sale for back taxes - there will be no additional taxes - this property has been vacant for a few years
Joy - thank for the frustrating info - I have seen many pocket deals happen ( and not my way either)
I am new to investing in real estate - just recently retired and most of the pension was lost due to the bankruptcy of the company I worked for - this seems the only way to make a little bit any more
I study the market everyday - I have picked up 2 foreclosures in the past year that are producing rent well - and looking to get 1 or 2 more
I did not bid on this parcel the first time it went to auction as I was gun shy and felt I did not have enough information
# people bid in the first round - the winner lost his deposit as he failed to pay for the property w/i 24 hrs according to the sherriff. The sheriff is in the process of offering the property to the next two bidders, in order - these are the rules and he seems to be following them to a T - so far that is.
He had to list it on the auction schedule for next month to cover his butt, should he not be able to sell it to the nmext 2 bidders. If that be the case, I will be bidding on it - with information in hand I will feel more comfortable makinga bid - by the way - these are blind bids - they do not let you access the property -I know - even more of a gamble
Wish me luck and I will update you on this one..
Again - thanks for all input
Newbie

[Fr_Chuck]

I buy a lot of tax properties, and always check for other liens on the property. Some other liens do not go away at the county tax sale.
1. city taxes would still be due ( in every place I buy)
2. IRS liens are not discharged.
3. in some states HOA liens would not be discharged.

Most other liens are.

In many states there is a redemption people, where the previous owner may buy the property back for the sale price plus interest ( often 10 percent) this can be from a 1 to 3 year period. In other states you get a deed at the time of sale.

I have not ever been able to buy title insurance for property at a tax sale.

[AK lawyer]

... the winner lost his deposit as he failed to pay for the property w/i 24 hrs according to the sherriff. ...

Depending on how much the deposit is, this might be a way to hedge your bet:

1. First acertain that the turn-around time on a title report is well within the 24-hour window.
2. Make a winning bid and pay the deposit.
3. Then pay for a title report.
4. If the title report shows something that would make the deal unfeasable, then abandon the deposit.

... I have not ever been able to buy title insurance for property at a tax sale.

Oh. I didn't see that when I was writing the above.

[Angelic1111]

Thanks again Ak
Chuck - I was glad to hear that you have bought several properties this way - then there is a light at the end of the tunnel :)
http://www.bid4assets.com/info/sfid546/207849.pdf?auctionid=0

Do you know the states where the HOA fees are discharged - would you have a link for that??
As far as redemption period - I can't find it right now - but the country declared that the redemption period has passed for all parcels.

I still feel a little gun shy but if the oppourtunity prevails, I am going to try to pick this one up- I will have a preset amount that I will pay - decided prior to the start of the bidding - I am too conservative to get caught up in anything other than that
Any other info you could possibly give me would be greatly appreciated - the sale starts in 2 weeks

Again Thanks Chuck - you too AK - I love all the help I can get at this time - get me a couple under my belt and I can turn around and help othwers through the process - that is what it is all about - helping each other and staying as informed as possible

[Fr_Chuck]

Most counties have their tax sale rules posted on their web site, and others normally have printed papers they give out stating the rules of sale.

What happened to the first buyer is far to normal, people think they can put a bid in and run to the bank for a loan, does not happen that way and they lose their deposit.

I used to buy many site unseeen, it was fun to go back and find what you bought,

[Angelic1111]

I have not seen the property ( second floor) but I have seen pictures of 5 years ago - I just don't want to walk into a lot of mold - I don't think so but I certainly hope not. You said you buy a lot - do you flip them or rent them?? Anything else that I need to know?? Do you wait until near the end of the time to place you bid - I see many have no bids until the last couple of hours - how do you win them paying the price you want - I am sure none of it is luck :)

[Angelic1111]

Chuck re: I used to buy many site unseeen, it was fun to go back and find what you bought,

OMG - I am not really in a position to make a mistake - but I know I won't be able to sleep the night before seeing it - Hubby will be laughing his butt of at me and my knees will be knocking - lol

[ballengerb1]

I work with a HOA and I would be very very surprised if they did not have a lien for back dues. This is not new to a HOA, they know how things work and they count of those dues and don't let go lightly. Kind of like the feds.

[Angelic1111]

Well the country has been the owner of the property for the last year - will they pay the hoa tab then??

[Fr_Chuck]

well remember esp in small towns or rural areas, taxes may only be 100 to 300 dollars a year, so if they are a couple years behind you find houses selling for 300 to 1000 dollars.

I bought mostly empty lots, or ones where houses burnt or were falling down. Empty lots or even one acre may only sell for 100 to 400 dollars..
So you can go in with a few thousand and I have never bought a property that I could not make money on. At worst, I get the interest when they redeem the property, but if I sell, it was always for twice and sometimes 10 times what I pay.

One I bought we ( wife and I) drove and found it, it was a acre or two that had a fence and a horse on it, the property next door had bought it, to keep a horse for their little 10 year old girl. My wife made me give it back to them, they had merely forgot to pay, So it was the only property I lost money on.

I have one right now, I am discussing in the real estate forum, I sold it and carried the loan on the property, Now I have to foreclose on it.

I also buy what some call deserted homes, I find older frame homes with grass about waste high, and find the owners and try to deal. I bought one a little back for 15,000, went in and added about 5000 in improvements, dry wall work, paint and a new roof ( I merely hire a worker not contract companies)
and I put in a new breaker and all new pipes myself. So I can do a lot for 5000. Well I rented it for a couple years, long enough to almost pay for the value of the home, then I sold it for 35,000.

If you want to get your feet wet on tax sales, find some empty lots, that may be selling for a few hundred dollars, ( if the taxes are that cheap in your area) and play with them

[ballengerb1]

Country, must be a typo, county and no the county did not own the property. They were forcing the sale of the owners property for back taxes. You buy the property you buy all the debt that goes with it, that's what liens do.

[Angelic1111]

Well hopefully there will not be too many of them if any - I am ready - a little nervous, but ready - I would like to fix it and rent it for a loittle while and then possibly sell it

[joypulv]

I meant to use Answer, not Comment.

I'm impressed! Good luck. I wonder if the first winner forfeited after seeing the condo. Are you allowed inside between deposit and balance?