[Sodium]

Yeah like everyone is saying... it is hard to find the right girl that would love to be treated like that but just stay the way you are... dont change

[chuff]

A 'good guy' knows there are about 1 million other women out there who he might just be quite happy with. Her loss.

I have developed a new attidude that is similar. There are 3 billion women on the planet. Surely, there are a couple thousand of them who I could be happy with and who would be happy with me.

[NeedKarma]

I have developed a new attidude that is similar. There are 3 billion women on the planet. Surely, there are a couple thousand of them who I could be happy with and who would be happy with me.

Just to add a caveat: as long as you are out there in social situations where you can meet these nice ladies. Sitting at home hoping someone finds you is a recipe for disappointment. [not you in particular Chuff, just nice guys in general]

[Wildcat21]

Great point Karma.

A 'good guy' is not afraid of rejection - he knows there a many reasons a wome nmight not be willing to go out with him - he knows to move on to the next one with a smile.

[talaniman]

Guys hd has a few more things on his plate we maybe overlooking see post #9, It may add to the perspective.

[chuff]

Just to add a caveat: as long as you are out there in social situations where you can meet these nice ladies. Sitting at home hoping someone finds you is a recipe for disappointment. [not you in particular Chuff, just nice guys in general]

LMAO!! The funny thing is ever since I've been reading books and listening to tapes on human behavior and how to change your personality I've been more of a home body. I also became addicted to this website which I spend hours at. The irony is that after years of being approached by and dropping the ball with women, I know have a better understanding of what to do and I don't leave the house! Go figure.

[Geoffersonairplane]

I have developed a new attidude that is similar. There are 3 billion women on the planet. Surely, there are a couple thousand of them who I could be happy with and who would be happy with me.

I like this Chuff and that is a good figure to go with, perhaps even more than 2000, perhaps we are talking more along the lines of a million but maybe only 2000 true soul mates...

[chuff]

I like this Chuff and that is a good figure to go with, perhaps even more than 2000, perhaps we are talking more along the lines of a million but maybe only 2000 true soul mates...

Geoff, your right. In the past when I've either approached a woman or been dumped by a woman I took soooooo personal. I think a lot of guys do this. I remember in my early 20's even if I was only dating a girl for a couple month, something that wasn't serious, and it ended I would say, "Now what, now who will want me?" The funny thing is I would have women approach me semi-regularly but I could never see past the one. It was such a limiting belief. But the reality is you never know who your going to meet, when your going to meet someone, and when someone is going to leave your life. That you can't help but your perspective about those situations you can change. With 3 billion women here there is got to be a good number of them that are interested. And if there not, then they have lost a great opportunity, and I'm only too happy to leave them behind.

[BlazingCold]

Geoff, your right. In the past when I've either approached a woman or been dumped by a woman I took soooooo personal. I think a lot of guys do this. I remember in my early 20's even if I was only dating a girl for a couple month, something that wasn't serious, and it ended I would say, "Now what, now who will want me?" The funny thing is I would have women approach me semi-regularly but I could never see past the one. It was such a limiting belief. But the reality is you never know who your going to meet, when your going to meet someone, and when someone is going to leave your life. That you can't help but your perspective about those situations you can change. With 3 billion women here there is got to be a good number of them that are interested. And if there not, then they have lost a great opportunity, and I'm only too happy to leave them behind.

What did you do to get to this state of mind?

[Geoffersonairplane]

What did you do to get to this state of mind?

I think he (chuff) basically learned it through experience.

[Wildcat21]

This might help as well...

The ball should be in your court most of the time...

"nice guys" keep the ball in HER court. She holds ALL cards. He makes her make the decisions. He ALWAYS tries to please her. She doesn't have to do any of the work.

That's no fun for a women.

No women wants a kissazz all the time.

She should have to chase you a little bit.

Again - learn to say NO!

[Geoffersonairplane]

I do believe that there is Balance and I don't think there are many women that like being chased all the time. There is no fun in this and although being nice and generous e.t.c. e.t.c. excellent qualities in a human being, one has to learn to channel these qualities in the right way and in the correct dose. If a woman knows she has you and that there is no challenge, then it seems logical that in time, she will feel a little smothered. If Love is in fact the defining factor in the relationship then that is what is left over and what will keep the relationship alive. I believe that in the early stages of attraction, it is important to take things slowly and not get too emotional or involved too fast. This works both ways too... I as a man would not want a woman to be too over clingy towards me, ringing me too much and so forth.

I believe that balance is the key...

So it is not a question that nice guys finish last, they don't if they learn balance. What a wonderful way to show a woman how nice you are inside by giving her the correct dosage of these qualities.

But always be true to yourself and others.. ALWAYS..

[Wildcat21]

Being nice is great - but in moderation. Suprises. Don't be a COMPLETE giver. Take some.

Nice guys NEVER take!!

[talaniman]

What did you do to get to this state of mind?

I hope I can help. After wasting a lot of time on the pity pot, wondering what went wrong, I learned to accepted the fact that me and the ex, for whatever reason or faults, we just didn't click. Acceptance of the circumstances helped me move on and go forward, so instead of 6 months or a year, I was raring to go and eager for exploring what life had for me, after a week or so or whenever the oppurtunity presented itself. That first break-up is so tough, and they all are, but now I know what to do and how to handle them changes that life will always throw at me. You grow and you learn.

[talaniman]

But always be true to yourself and others.. ALWAYS..

As you grow and know yourself you can be a real good guy. I can be nice but try to be good and work to get better. It's a lifetime job.

[bj88]

I dated someone for 8 monthes and she left me because I was too nice. We had planed to get married;however, she said she loved me so much but I grew into her best friend that would always be there for her. This is the second time I lost someone because I am not the bad boy type. My last girlfriend and me dated for over a year. We were very close and we were going in that direction again but then she told me that she was having an affair with a pizza guy. She told me she was sorry and I was so nice and she never wanted to hurt me and she did not want to lie to me because deserve better, but she said this guy made her happy on a different level and i was just more of a friend. No joking when I say this but she even wants me to come to their wedding if they get married. She said it would mean a lot if I was there. So as you can see there is a pattern. What is wrong with me? Is it wrong to be the nice guy type? Women complain about rude, lying, controling, jerks all the time but it seems that is the only guys they date. IS it better to be like that? I Just feel like dying I am so depressed over this

My friend, nothing is wrong with nice guys. Let me tell you nice guys are the ones that finish up with a nice house, car and family. Everyone has their own path my friend and if you were rejected for being too nice then its her loss. In my opinion its us nice guys that think they finish last but we are missing the point, the fact that we are nice guys! Ask yourself this question, would you rather be an a-hole? I didn't think so. In the mean time look at it this way, you've already met a girl you are attractrd to, why can't it happen again? The world is your oyster and you need to live it up, go out, find another nice girl, I guarantee if it's meant to be it will happen!

[chuff]

What did you do to get to this state of mind?

Blazing Cold that is such a great question. I know I can ramble at times so I won’t try to make this too long but it was a serious of steps that led me to this path. After my last debacle I actually sat by myself in a closed room one day and started asking myself some questions. I had known for and even made jokes about it for years that I fall for the same women, just a different name all the time. But this time I sat down and really had a conversation with myself. I asked a series of questions and sort of got the answers. But the problem I kept running into was that I was getting involved in situations that I was too smart to be in. I knew better. I had learned, or I should have learned that lesson the first time it happened and yet I have just kept repeating the pattern. Somewhere in all this I asked, If I‘m a nice guy and women say they want a nice guy why isn‘t it working? On top of that if it obviously doesn‘t work and I know it, why do I continue to do it?” So the next question was “How did I get this way? Why do I do everything I do, and how has everything I become lead me to this point, in this room? Then the question I got down to which was the very heart of all this was “Why do human beings act the way that they do?”

See the reality was that I wanted to change my behaviors but I’ve known my behaviors don’t help me for years. So what good does knowing it do you if you don’t change. But that wasn’t always the case, because some people can change. So I took a step back and decided that as a human being I had the traits that everyone else did, so what was really going on.

So I started studying human being behavioral traits. I sort took a step back and just watched how people reacted to other people, how they interacted, and how they acted around various people in similar situations. I started reading books on the brain and motivation. What I learned was that human beings (and other animals too, for that matter) either learn or associate or “pick up” (unconscious learning) new information all the time. As long as the brain is still alive it is always evaluating things going on around you and determining on some level if this is good for you. Most of the time is happening and you don’t even realize it because you focus is on day to day activities.

If the brain accepts a “belief” it gets anchored into your brain AND your nervous system. These beliefs literally control you life. You don’t think about it on a conscious level but they are always there guiding you away from pain and towards happiness. That doesn’t make logical sense when you read it but it makes perfect sense when you start applying it to other people and then to your own behaviors that are not helping you produce a result that you want.

Let me give you a personal example. I asked myself, “what is the pattern I repeat with women?” Well, I gave them whatever they asked for, I did whatever they wanted, I broke plans or important things I wanted or worse yet I needed to do, for them. I kept he local florist in business by purchasing flowers, with one girl once a month. You get the point, I was a doormat. Very rarely did I ever get anything back. Why?
Obviously I was the nice guy, but why did I do that. Worse yet why did I do that over and over. Well I literally traced it back all the way through the ex’s and just some who were girls I was interested in.

The weird part was for the most part, my behavior was consistent all the way back to the “second“ (More on that in a second) girl that I kissed. In other words I never changed my behavior because of fight or break up. So I then had to ask myself if I have always been the same about women, and I don’t change after getting used by several of them did I get my beliefs or accept my beliefs before I even started dating.

Sadly the answer was yes. I had several “bad” (bad as in for me, not as in this was done intentionally) things happen to me over the course of my childhood. The first was that my father and I did not get along because he would scream and yell, and belittle anyone around him. Of course the moment we left the house he became the nice guy. Often he would put my mom down or just make her feel like crap. I can remember several times thinking, “I will never treat a woman like this.” On top of that I would ask my mom (which no boy should ever listen to you mom about women, but I was young and naïve) what it takes to make a relationship work. Her answer was always “give and take.” Yet she always gave and my dad never gave.” I was also the oldest, and the only boy, so this is what I learned. Somewhere during my upbringing I anchored that if order for a woman to be happy you give to her and don’t take. After all I wasn’t going to be like my dad. Look this isn’t an excuse to blame you parents. I’m positive mine had no idea what they were doing. Nobody’s parents realize that is happening. But it serves as an example of what’s going on in your brain and what it’s accepting as a belief.

On top of all this at home, when I was in third grade a kid bet me a dollar that I would not kiss this girl who lived 3 houses down from me. Well I did and she told her parents who told mine and I don’t really remember all that my mom said to me, but she said this was my fault and embarrassing. Now mind you I wanted was dollar for candy. So I got in trouble for this, my “first” kiss. I had forgot about that event which was probably 24 years ago until I started following back my belief structure that my brain has set up. I have not a doubt that stupid event, that I probably forgot on a conscious level a few days after it took place, actually helped shape part of my beliefs and explained in part why I would let some girls get away with things that they had no business getting away with.

So that brings us back to today. How can you change? Well the first thing you do is what I did. Follow your patterns. Every human being may have a different personality but every single human being follows behavioral patterns, even if it’s bad for them, and even if it doesn’t make sense to them. So look at what you want to change and figure out what the common pattern is. For example, if you want to quit smoking don’t just say, “I want to quit smoking.” That’s just a bland statement. Really look at yourself and notice the pattern. When do you smoke? Do you smoke less in certain situations or on certain days? If so why? Then follow it back to where it all started. Smoking usually and easy one. Most people did to fit in. With any behavior your not happy with follow it back as far as you can to it’s very inception.

When you get there you have to install a new belief. My old belief was “if this one leaves me (even if I’m not happy) I’ll be alone or who will have me?” has now been replaced with there are 3 billion women on the planet, a couple thousand are sure to like me.” My new belief doesn’t set me up for heartache and misery if one leaves, because there are couple thousand more right behind her. For me it’s been a process, I keep repeating that phrase along with some others that I’m installing as beliefs. I do it different times of they day in different situations so that no matter what happens in the future my brain will react accordingly.

I observe this in others too and I know if you want it you can make immediate change. My problem is I’m very stubborn so I just keep chipping away. But as an example, I work with this girl who used to be a big time drug addict. You name she did it. She quit cold turkey. No rehab, no going back, just quit. I asked her exactly how she did that when some people spend there whole lives going in and out of rehab. Her answer, “I watched two people die right in front of me.” These two people died while they were with her one night doing meth. That was the last time she ever used. Do you see what really happened though, her brain saw in person the damage and pain and made an instant, in that moment, retraced it’s steps and found the source of pain, was the drugs, and immediately created a new belief that this was going to lead to death.

That’s and extreme example and she’s not as hard headed as I am but I know that it can be done immediately.


I’m sorry to ramble and I know it can take a lot of space sometimes but those are basically (I’ve done some other things too to change myself) the ways you create a new behavior pattern.

If you want to look more into this I’d also recommend the books, “Beliefs” by Robert Dilts, The Power of Failure by Charles Manz, Feel the Failure and do it anyway by Susan Jeffers , The Magic of Getting what you want, by David Schwartz and the anything by Tony Robbins. The only thing I have to say though if you read them apply it to your life. I have and it’s working for me. So many people say they want change but they never do anything about it. I can’t change you. Only you can change you. Then keep working at it. If you wanted to change your body you wouldn’t go work out for a week and then say this doesn’t work. While actually a lot of people do that but it’s quitting that doesn’t work. To get the change you need work at it daily and the changes come. I promise you because I’m living it.

[Geoffersonairplane]

I really liked your response to Blaze's question Chuff. A lot of it made real sense to me and actually you seem a lot like me in terms of following those patterns in life. I have always been like this, perhaps too nice and yet although I understand the difference between nice and good, the outcome of my behavior patterns often has led to me being used. I have got better as I have got older yet in my recent breakup 4 months ago, I regard myself as being used more so in the relationship now I have reflected on those 3 years. I am not saying had I changed the way I was with her, she would still be here because there were other factors like her age e.t.c. I do however believe that people follow patterns in life and I do believe that if you really want to, you can change. It seems that you have already broken that cycle of patterns and altered them into something new Chuff. I think that I personally also need to take some time to reflect on why I have followed certain patterns in life with the way that I deal with people. The human brain is so complicated... except to Sigmund Freud.. LOL

[chuff]

I really liked your response to Blaze's question Chuff. A lot of it made real sense to me and actually you seem a lot like me in terms of following those patterns in life.

Some it at first doesn’t make sense first from a logical perspective because most people, the first response is “why would I bring harm to myself or put myself in a bad situation?” That was my first question to me. And yet the reality was even though my answer was, “I wouldn’t bring harm to myself or put myself in those situations” if I was honest with myself, the reality was on a emotional level I was doing exactly what I wouldn’t do on a logical level.

But if you start studying how the brain works on emotions and not logic, everything starts to fit into place. Every decision you’ve ever made, even if you didn’t know why can be traced back to a belief installed in your brain.

The beautiful thing about the brain is it can revaluate and change it’s own beliefs even beliefs you‘ve had for years. Look most people don’t even realize there own beliefs. That’s why they repeat the same patterns. If you can get enough power over it you can change it or it will change immediately like the girl I work with. While she thought doing drugs took her from all her problems and also gave her friends, in one moment that all changed and her brain had immediate pain and it got linked up and put into her nervous system that death was far more painful than then her problems that she was trying to avoid.

Truly though the best thing to do is just watch other people. Don’t focus on yourself at first. But look at other people. You see them make the same mistakes, some for a lifetime and you just think, “Why?” Well it’s not because they are stupid it’s because of a belief they have deep in the brain and anchored in the nervous system.

I have always been like this, perhaps too nice and yet although I understand the difference between nice and good, the outcome of my behavior patterns often has led to me being used.

Exactly, and yet it we have it sunk in our brain that to be nice is a good thing and to be a jerk is a bad thing. I have it in my brain because I never wanted to be like my dad. Many guys have it because they were raised by their mothers only so they were “trained” to always be the nice guy to women because that’s what there mother wanted. The problem is we take it so far overboard we get used. Then even worse, we wonder what happened because we did everything “right” or as we were lead to accept should be right. Look I’m not going to become an a-hole but I’m no longer going to be walked on. If she doesn’t like it, I’m going to be happy to replace her with the couple thousand standing right behind her. And by the way, I actually imagine a line of women standing to meet me with a sign that says “Please wait to be seated.” That tells my brain to wait until I’m ready and available, not take the next one that comes along. I actually imagine that in my brain.

I have got better as I have got older yet in my recent breakup 4 months ago, I regard myself as being used more so in the relationship now I have reflected on those 3 years. I am not saying had I changed the way I was with her, she would still be here because there were other factors like her age e.t.c.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe she was 19 or 20 if I’m not mistaken. I’m not trying to say that this is the end all be all of relationships with women. IT IS NOT. Certainly she was 6 years younger than you and may have needed to have a sense of freedom. The reality is you can not control the other person in a relationship. However, if that relationship ends, you can control how you feel about it by setting up new beliefs. This is about you and on a bigger sense your brain. Using my new belief means that if one leaves, I can feel upset and even some depression that she’s gone. But I will not let it get the better of me, because when I choose there is that line of a couple thousand right behind her. And if for example you go hit on someone who turns you down, you just go to someone next in line. It’s a belief that can not control me. It’s a belief that gives me the control.

I do however believe that people follow patterns in life and I do believe that if you really want to, you can change. It seems that you have already broken that cycle of patterns and altered them into something new Chuff. I think that I personally also need to take some time to reflect on why I have followed certain patterns in life with the way that I deal with people. The human brain is so complicated....except to Sigmund Freud..LOL

Think about every product we buy. From computers all the way down to furniture polish. It all comes with directions. The most important thing you’ll ever in your life is you. The thing that controls you is your brain and it DOES NOT come with a directions. And most people never even think about that, much less study it.

[BlazingCold]

Chuff and Tal, thanks for answering my question. It makes sense to me now. I know if I set my mind to it, I can do it!