[Grey_Matter]

My marriage of 19 years has been degrading for some time now… maybe 4 years. We haven’t had sex in almost two years. I can’t get close to her, let alone touch her, in bed. She either gets up to use the restroom and comes back to bed in a protective guarded posture or as she has on more than one occasion, told me that she needs her space; referring to while trying to sleep.
I realize that sex between partners is not the most important thing but it is something like a vital sign of the health of a marriage.
These examples as well as numerous others have led me to believe that my wife wants nothing to do with me any longer and possibly even seeing someone. I also believe that when our youngest graduates High School that she plans to end our marriage even if there isn’t another man.
However, I recently found a pair of my wife’s very lacy and very see-through thong in the laundry hamper which I haven’t see in a very, very long time. While there could be an explanation for this, I don’t want to keep trying to rationalize everything and be made a fool of.
These thoughts consume my mind my entire days and is just eating away at my gut. I feel as though I’m falling into a state of depression. I truly have no one I can talk to about this and would appreciate some advice, thoughts, and certainly your prayers.

[Enigma1999]

Oh Grey, you need to talk to her. This can't go on any longer. This will kill you inside. If it already hasn't.

Have you two sat down and really talked about it? I mean a serious conversation, laying everything on the table?

You're right, sex isn't every thing in a relationship, however, it is important, and not just sex for the sake of sex, but to feel a connection, a closeness.

You two might want to consider counceling.

Also, you do need to find out if she is sleeping with another man. Not only for the sake of your marriage, but to make sure she doesn't contract an STD, then pass it to you.

Grey, again, I feel for you. I do think that you two need to talk.

If it is over on her end, then she just needs to own up and tell you. Instead of this chinese water torture she is putting you through.

I am sorry, good luck.

[88sunflower]

I am sorry to hear your hurting. But my first thoughts are have you talked with her about these feelings your having? How do you know after your youngest graduates she might leave? Has she mentioned it in any way? If you have talked with her have you mentioned trying counseling? Losing communication in a marriage is a dangerous thing. If you can at least get some of that back its possible you could find out the issues with her. It may be another man, it may not. I am guessing the signs also point to that.

[smoothy]

Sounds to me like you suspicions might have merit to them.

Depending on where you live... if you can get proof of infidelity your support obligations... I.E. Alimony can be greatly reduced or eliminated.

If things can be fixed or not is hard to say, but unless she wanted to try, its not going to happen.

First you have to understand... it might not be your fault at all, and second.. do not let it result in violence from either of you.

I'd hire a private investigator to get evidence either way. Even if they find nothing it may only mean she is more cunning than they are... but hard proof is difficult to explain away. But can be key in a divorce. Even in a community property state.

I've seen a case where she was fooling around, got caugth on film... divorce proceeded she got half the assets, but NO alimony.

[Grey_Matter]

Thank you for the reply Enigma1999.

About 2 years ago I suggested counseling. She shot it down saying she didn't want other people knowing our problems.

She can't pass any STD to me if we aren't having sex ourselves but that is a valid point.

What are your thoughts about the thong? A thong like that is for show is it not?

Also, we recently were in Europe for vacation (with our 2 kids) and her wedding ring was damaged losing the stone (very small stone) in the process. That was in June and she still has yet had it repaired or even mentioned repairing it. She hasn't worn it since but most of the time does wear one that does at least look like a wedding ring.

[smoothy]

Hard to guess about the thong... I assume she rarely ever wore a thongs on only had one or a few. If that was the case it can indicate something, but some women really like thongs and g-strings and frequently wear them. If that is the case it means nothing likely, except she decided to wear it.

Does she were granny panties most of the time or a variety of sexier things? THAT is more indicative than a specific pair would be.

[Enigma1999]

Thank you for the reply Enigma1999.

About 2 years ago I suggested counseling. She shot it down saying she didn't want other people knowing our problems.

She can't pass any STD to me if we aren't having sex ourselves but that is a valid point.

What are your thoughts about the thong? A thong like that is for show is it not?

Also, we recently were in Europe for vacation (with our 2 kids) and her wedding ring was damaged losing the stone (very small stone) in the process. That was in June and she still has yet had it repaired or even mentioned repairing it. She hasn't worn it since but most of the time does wear one that does at least look like a wedding ring.

You are right, however, I would still want to know if she is cheating for your own sanity.

As far as the thong, well I wear thongs on a daily basis, so it's really hard to tell. I don't want to say yes, she it, but I do think again, you need to find out for sure. Same with the ring situation. Is she trying to hide something, or does she really just not care?

I believe that counseling would help.

I also think, if it were me in your situation, that if my partner didn't want to take the extra steps to try to save our marriage, well then, sorr to say, but I wouldn't waste any more time with that person. Harsh I know.

[Grey_Matter]

Smoothy,
I have considered the alimony situation I just can't afford a PI but have considered other ways just trying to find out the lagality of them first.
It is partly my fault and hers for each of us allowing it to get this far out of control but as I stated previously, I have suggested counseling but she did not want to.
I maybe haven't been the best husband over the years and I surely have caused her pain which I regret but I have never cheated on her.

[Enigma1999]

Smoothy,
I have considered the alimony situation I just can't afford a PI but have considered other ways just trying to find out the lagality of them first.
It is partly my fault and hers for each of us allowing it to get this far out of control but as I stated previously, I have suggested counseling but she did not want to.
I maybe haven't been the best husband over the years and I surely have caused her pain which I regret but I have never cheated on her.

If you don't mind, what pain have you caused her?

[smoothy]

By all means give a reconcilliation a try first... if that doesn't work, do the PI thing because trust me, if she walks out the door she's going to want half of everything AND alimoney (just out of spite even if Mr. New Guy is loaded). A PI is cheap compared to that. In VA solid and irrefutible proof of infidelity can work in the favor of their partner in a divorce, I do not believe that to be true in every state however..

Remember the old saying..

CYA

otherwise known as Cover Your A**.

[Grey_Matter]

If you don't mind, what pain have you caused her?

Well... Short tempered, lashing out on a few occasions with profanity and calling her names I wouldn't repeat here.

About 5 years ago I was out of work and our relationship had already been heading south for some time. No companionship from her whatsoever. I guess you could say I was driven to visit an old girlfriend that I hadn't seen in 15 years. I drove 100 miles to visit with her. We had dinner and drinks, went down memory lane. Had more drinks! I more or less stated that my marriage was in the tank and that I wanted to leave my wife and rekindle things with her (my old girlfriend). During this conversation, she had received a phone call from her husband which knew where and who she was with, though he and I had never met.
After they were finished with their call, the phone call conveniently was never disconnected and her husband heard the conversation continue on. Needless to say, her husband was pissed, my old girlfriend (now not even a friend) very upset and hurt that I would even suggest this, and I was very disgusted in myself to say the least. I knew this was going to get back to my wife so the next day confessed to her for having gone to visit my friend and that I shouldn’t have. All I said was it was a visit, dinner, and talk and nothing more than that. Well, it all got back to my wife and she and the husband talked to each other about all of this. Though my wife has never stated specifics about their conversation, I suspect that she was told essentially what I tried talking my old girlfriend into.
Aside from what was said, the only thing that happened was a kiss on her cheek as I said goodbye.
I know, you’re probably thinking that I deserve everything I’m dealing with now. You're probably right. I'm paying the price for my mistakes.

[88sunflower]

Grey I don't think you deserve everything your getting now. Let me say that from the start.

Your actions at the time were certainly out of line. You have to remember every action has a reaction. If you were treating your wife badly and name calling where in your right mind do you think she is going to be open and loving to you? Where do you think she would be June Cleaver the minute you walk in the door? Of course that wasn't good on your part. Her reaction to that and to hearing about your meeting with the ex has now caused this reaction. Or helped play a part in it I am sure.

Things take time to crumble. You need to water your grass everyday or it will wither up and die. Have you both taken the time for this? I am guessing she shut down and rather then trying to talk with you she found some "easier" to talk with. You have to reach out to her. You have to show her your sorry and hurting and will move every mountain to keep the love alive.

I went through three years of living hell in marriage. I was 200% positive it was over. We both wronged each other on many levels. But in the end no matter what you do to the other you do what you need to do to go forward. Simple as that. Time will heal. Its never forgotten but it gets easier. I think you need to work on her. Get her to talk. That's the first step. She has to open up to you.

[BMI]

I don't see too much in your post that would lead me to believe she is having an affair with another man. The sex could be something other than her cheating on you and the lace panties are not exactly a red flag that prooves she is being unfaithful. While I do see problems in the relationship and definetely agree with the advice to have a serious conversation with your wife, I think the affair conclusions are being created as an explanation for this unusual behaviour.

I think you have let this go on for too long and now are looking for things to help you understand. Your mind will play tricks and see things that aren't always there. She could be having an affair, but with the evidence you have shown you could make a case for anyone having an affair. Again, I think the longer this goes on the more you will start 'noticing'. Please talk with your wife, regardless if it is another man or not, you need to clear all this up as it is toxic to the relationship and everyone involved.

Best of luck.

[Grey_Matter]

Thank you 88!
That's very helpful and reassuring.

[88sunflower]

Thank you 88!
That's very helpful and reassuring.

Its hard. You will want to give up because that seems easier. But you stay focused if she is willing. You just need to get to her first. Is there a time you can do this?

[Grey_Matter]

I don't see too much in your post that would lead me to beleive she is having an affair with another man. The sex could be something other than her cheating on you and the lace panties are not exactly a red flag that prooves she is being unfaithful. While I do see problems in the relationship and definetely agree with the advice to have a serious conversation with your wife, I think the affair conclusions are being created as an explaination for this unusual behaviour.

I think you have let this go on for too long and now are looking for things to help you understand. Your mind will play tricks and see things that arn't always there. She could be having an affair, but with the evidence you have shown you could make a case for anyone having an affair. Again, I think the longer this goes on the more you will start 'noticing'. Please talk with your wife, regardless if it is another man or not, you need to clear all this up as it is toxic to the relationship and everyone involved.

Best of luck.

@BMI,
As noted in my original post, there are numerous other things that have led me to these thoughts whether true or not that she's seeing someone.

For example… the ring thing! This happened last year also. Her engagement ring and wedding ring came apart and she didn't make any attempt to repair it for almost 5 months until I brought it up to her. Who wouldn't want to fix their wedding ring? My ring too was recently damaged and hadn’t been polished in some time. I took it in to get the work done and was without it for about 2 weeks. I couldn’t stand not having it on my finger. I’m a man and I felt that way! I would presume that most women would feel far worse without their ring. That’s a presumption though.

Additionally, on average, she goes to work related "Happy Hours" that last sometimes up to 4 hours about 2 times a week. This bothered me so about 2 years ago I talked to her about it. I told her that I felt that she was devoting more time to work than to our marriage. (We never go out!) The only adjustment she has made is she attends them more often than before.

One time she came home from one of these happy hours with a fresh dose of perfume on. Fresh as in within 15 or 20 minutes.

Also, when she's getting ready for work, I can tell when she has either a "Happy Hour" or a "Luncheon" with a "client" because she's dressed much more provocatively showing a lot of cleavage.

Let’s go back to the panties… These are Fredericks of Hollywood style. Very lacy and see-through black thong! She had told me a very long time ago that they were uncomfortable to wear. I can imagine! She does most often wear a basic cloth thong and sometimes “granny-panties”. We haven’t been intimate in almost 2 years and there’s not been any sign from either of us in a very long time that there was even a chance of us being intimate any time soon. Also, those were worn, or at least put in the hamper, sometime between Mon and Thurs as I did a load on Friday when I took most of the day off. That’s when I discovered them. Usually, when I do laundry, I do my darks because I go through them quick and there’s usually enough for one load. That Wed or Thur she was out at a “happy hour” again. So, all coincidence? My mind inventing things? Possibly! But most of what I’ve stated here supports why she wouldn’t be wearing something like that. But, why WOULD someone wear something like that! When she realized I had seen them, her behavior became very suspicious. Quickly retrieved her cell phone stating something about expecting a call from someone from the kid’s school, which we were. Then she seemed to be keeping a close eye on my movements around the house and garage.

I do agree with you that my mind could be inventing things that aren’t of concern. I’ve given that much thought. And you are right! None of what I have mentioned proves anything as you pointed out. However, collectively they do begin to fit together like a puzzle and I don’t want to continue to simply discount the pieces of that puzzle to be nothing when a very ugly picture is starring me in the face.

Its hard. You will want to give up because that seems easier. But you stay focused if she is willing. You just need to get to her first. Is there a time you can do this?

I don't understand. Is there a time I can do what?

[smoothy]

Personally, I see indications something either may be happening, or she is looking for something to happen.

Definative maybe not... but indications just the same.

Not like you found photos or another guys underwear, or condoms in her purse.

[Enigma1999]

Well... Short tempered, lashing out on a few occasions with profanity and calling her names I wouldn't repeat here.

About 5 years ago I was out of work and our relationship had already been heading south for some time. No companionship from her whatsoever. I guess you could say I was driven to visit an old girlfriend that I hadn't seen in 15 years. I drove 100 miles to visit with her. We had dinner and drinks, went down memory lane. Had more drinks! I more or less stated that my marriage was in the tank and that I wanted to leave my wife and rekindle things with her (my old girlfriend). During this conversation, she had received a phone call from her husband which knew where and who she was with, though he and I had never met.
After they were finished with their call, the phone call conveniently was never disconnected and her husband heard the conversation continue on. Needless to say, her husband was pissed, my old girlfriend (now not even a friend) very upset and hurt that I would even suggest this, and I was very disgusted in myself to say the least. I knew this was going to get back to my wife so the next day confessed to her for having gone to visit my friend and that I shouldn’t have. All I said was it was a visit, dinner, and talk and nothing more than that. Well, it all got back to my wife and she and the husband talked to each other about all of this. Though my wife has never stated specifics about their conversation, I suspect that she was told essentially what I tried talking my old girlfriend into.
Aside from what was said, the only thing that happened was a kiss on her cheek as I said goodbye.
I know, you’re probably thinking that I deserve everything I’m dealing with now. You're probably right. I'm paying the price for my mistakes.

I still think that you need to sit down and talk to her. Tell her axactly what you have told us. Talk to her about your concerns that you are having. This all needs to come out. I KNOW for a fact that you are unhappy, and I am 99.999% sure that SHE is unhappy. Things need to change!

[BMI]

Hi Grey,

Again, you mention instances where an eyebrow may be raised but nothing substantial enough to convince it is an affair. You are questioning why she does this or that, probably for lack of actual material to hang your hat on. However, I digress, this is not a court room and I am not the jury. I only bring it up to make sure you have exauhsted all possibilities before stressing yourself out over something like this. The situation seems difficult enough without the worry of thinking she has been unfaithful. The lack of sex, to me, does indicate something amiss, however, if there are problems and you two are not getting along well than I can understand why she would not wish to be intimate.

All in all, a problem does indeed exist. Regardless of what it is you need to talk with her. Again, I am not trying to dispel the notion of her cheating, rather to lead you to speak with her before the entire situation causes much more avoidable damage.

[JudyKayTee]

Hire an investigator - find out once and with finality. However, do NOT hire an investigator if you are not willing to hear what that person might discover.

It has been my experience that when a person "believes" an affair is going on and hires an investigator, the investigation is pointless as the harm has already been done. The report is just the icing on the cake.

ANY change of behavior - in my experience - is cause to be suspicious.