[this8384]

My husband and his wife divorced about 5 years ago. They never had a good relationship to begin with - they were legally married for five years and lived apart for more than half of it.

After the divorce, his ex received primary physical custody of their children and had it until August of last year. The kids came to live with us last summer after finding out that their mother and her fiancé have an extremely rocky relationship which included alcoholism, physical abuse and numerous police incidents.

Within the past two years, my stepson has shared with us that his mother has told them:

- their parents divorced because my husband was "dating" other women
- my husband doesn't know how to treat children, I'm "weird" and if they lived here, nobody would take care of them
- if they tell us what happens in their mom's house, we'll tell the courts, their mother will "lose" and they will never see her again
- my husband and I are not supposed to consume alcohol per court order(completely backwards - there is a prohibition but it is on her and her fiancé, not us)
- the kids need to tell her what happens in our house - what they do, where we go, who watches them, what we eat, etc.
- when they came to live with us last year, it was only going to be for one year and then they'd move back with her.
- she shouldn't have to pay child support to my husband and that my husband never paid child support to her

It goes without saying, but obviously none of these things were true. Regardless of their nature, these are not things that should be told to children. My husband and I do not discuss details of the court case for that very reason. Even though we don't talk to them about it, they still seem to "know" things - like child support, prohibition on consumption of alcohol, etc.

What's really concerning me is that this week, my stepson was acting up; it turned into an hour long discussion which included him crying and saying, "I'm confused. Mom tells me one thing, you tell me something else and I don't know who's lying to me."

He has a disturbing alliance to his mother; he will accuse everyone else of lying to him because what they're saying is opposite of what she said. He refuses to accept that what his mom is saying and doing is wrong and untruthful. When the issue of drinking/not drinking came up, he argued that we were lying to him - we offered to show him the court order and he said he didn't want to see it.

I try to let some things slide because I know that he is really going through a tough time with all of this and is extremely confused. On the other hand, I don't want to let too much slide and then have bigger issues. Last night, he was in a mood and refused to stop - attitude about everything, mouthing off, being rude, talking back. I finally raised my voice to him, which is very rare for me to do. This morning, he was teetering on that edge - not as bad as last night, but still not as well-behaved as he normally is, either.

He's been seeing a therapist for a year now, who says that he's nowhere as near in need as some of the other clients. He was originally seeing the therapist on a bi-weekly basis; in the winter they extended it to every three weeks and a few months ago they extended to monthly visits.

I suppose my question is: how would you deal with this? The therapist said they think we're handling everything the right way. I just get so frustrated; I want to just sit him down and tell him his mother is a manipulative liar who cares more about herself than her own children. Of course, I would never do that because that wouldn't do anything but hurt him more. It's just so frustrating - she says and does all these things in an attempt to make us look bad and all it's doing is confusing and hurting him. Then he bottles it up, forms ideas and opinions, and ends up exploding because he doesn't know the truth about what's going on.

So anyway... thoughts? Suggestions?

[Jake2008]

I would say for starters, that he still has his guard up.

He came from what sounds like, hell, at his mother's house. And it must have been substantial for her to lose custody. I presume that a year was put on the order, in order for her to get help with her addictions and the violence in her home?

Does he visit with is mother, and are the visits supervised? What about the other children, how old are they, and how have they adjusted in your home.

The son has/is being played by the mother, obviously, because of the information she feeds him, that she knows will get to you, and your husband. That purpose, is to make you look like the bad guys, and her to look like the victim. Who has victimised her is you and your husband in the child's eyes, and therefore he has to keep his guard up, not let you in. He is not capable, at that age of recognizing possible parental alienation (which I think this is), nor is he intellectually able to know which adult is telling the truth, and who to believe.

As you said, he's between a rock and a hard place. If he accepts the truth, he will have to accept that his mother is not the person she says she is.

It is also not uncommon for him to have been abused, and to still forge an alliance, at least emotionally, with his abusers. It's called survival instinct.

As hard as it is, my best advice to you is to maintain the high road here, for the sake of this child. Be consistent, and have structure and discipline in your home. He needs to know that you care enough about him to have expectations, and consequences. Particularly toward the bad behaviour.

That will give him a sense of security, and grounding. Let him know that if he wishes to talk about anything to do with his mother, that it will be at a time and place, where you and your husband can sit and listen, and try to understand. Try your best not to correct him, or 'prove' you are right with court documents etc. because he may not yet be ready to accept cold hard truthful facts. All you can do is what is age appropriate, and that is to listen, and support him, and try to encourage him to talk.

He will have anger, and in a way, that he is confident enough to express it, is a positive sign. Anger is an honest emotion, and coming from a child with his background, him getting it out, is good. Allow him alternatives to mouthing off and getting physical if he is physical, and buy him a punching bag, or put a trampoline in the yard, or enroll him in a class such as swimming, hockey, soccer, etc. He needs a physical place to express angry energy.

He is also protective of his siblings, because they likely depend on him. So it is important that you include him when you express your concerns about them. They are a package deal, one for all and all for one.

As to the therapist, I would, if it were me, speak to him directly, and give him all the detail you can. Ask him to see this child more frequently for the time being, and perhaps you and your husband could even go and meet with him.

As he matures, it will be hard to define the blurry line between normal development- with the attitude and developing independence, and what is being directly caused by unresolved issues with his past, that he is not capable yet of fully understanding. That is where it will be imperative that you and your husband maintain the house rules for good behaviour, with discipline and consequences, but yet make it very clear that you will talk and listen at the same time.

I hope that you and your husband can provide a united front, and you are both on the same page as far as how to deal with this boy. He has much to overcome.

[this8384]

I would say for starters, that he still has his guard up.

He came from what sounds like, hell, at his mother's house. And it must have been substantial for her to lose custody. I presume that a year was put on the order, in order for her to get help with her addictions and the violence in her home?

In 2009, they came to a "temporary agreement" so she told the kids that they were only going to live here for a year. I don't know if she truly believed that or if it was just another of her many ways of manipulating the kids.

Does he visit with is mother, and are the visits supervised? What about the other children, how old are they, and how have they adjusted in your home.

They visit with her three weekends a month, Friday evening through Sunday evening. The other child is eight and they both seem well-adjusted.

When he lived with his mom, he said he wanted to live here - when he moved here, he said he wanted to live with his mom. Then he really surprised us because when they went to meet with the GAL, they both said that they like living here but would like more time with their mom in the summer - not expecting that from them at all.

The son has/is being played by the mother, obviously, because of the information she feeds him, that she knows will get to you, and your husband. That purpose, is to make you look like the bad guys, and her to look like the victim. Who has victimised her is you and your husband in the child's eyes, and therefore he has to keep his guard up, not let you in. He is not capable, at that age of recognizing possible parental alienation (which I think this is), nor is he intellectually able to know which adult is telling the truth, and who to believe.

As you said, he's between a rock and a hard place. If he accepts the truth, he will hav to accept that his mother is not the person she says she is.

You hit the nail on the head - she uses the kids as little pawns. Everything is "poor Mom, look how hard this is for her." She earns over $16/hr and she told the kids that she was "poor" because she had to pay child support to their father(forgot to include that one).

I agree completely with the parental alienation. Since day one, she has played this game of "Mom vs. Dad" and has talked bad about me with absolutely no grounds. When he and I first started dating, she told umpteen people, including my husband, that I was promiscuous(in different words) - never mind the fact that I was a virgin!

It is also not uncommon for him to have been abused, and to still forge an alliance, at least emotionally, with his abusers. It's called survival instinct.

As hard as it is, my best advice to you is to maintain the high road here, for the sake of this child. Be consistent, and have structure and discipline in your home. He needs to know that you care enough about him to have expectations, and consequences. Particularly toward the bad behaviour.

Survival instinct is also dead on. The kids spent 2 years living in an absolute nightmare - between educational neglect to constant fighting between their mother and her fiancé to being left alone in the middle of the night... they essentially learned to "deal" with life at a very young age.

We've had numerous talks about why we take the time to discipline them - I think he truly does understand, he's very emotionally mature for his age.

That will give him a sense of security, and grounding. Let him know that if he wishes to talk about anything to do with his mother, that it will be at a time and place, where you and your husband can sit and listen, and try to understand. Try your best not to correct him, or 'prove' you are right with court documents etc., because he may not yet be ready to accept cold hard truthful facts. All you can do is what is age appropriate, and that is to listen, and support him, and try to encourage him to talk.

We've told him that anytime he has a question, he can ask us - individually or together. If there's something that he doesn't believe, then we offer to show him the proof. For example: last summer she told them that their dad had never paid child support. I told him the truth and asked if he would like to see the paperwork, he said yes. I showed him the original court paperwork, stating that their dad needed to pay and even showed him his dad's paystubs showing that the support came out every two weeks. So while I don't want to force it on him, I also want to be able to prove to him that we are not lying.

I understand what you're saying about him not wanting to accept the truth about his mother but on the other hand, I don't want him thinking that his father and I are doing all these terrible things.

Here's another prime example: my husband told their mom last year that IF they wanted to play baseball, we would keep them in the league their cousins on her side play in. She seemed happy with that. Then spring came around, we asked if they wanted to sign up and both kids said no. On Sunday afternoon, we went to pick them up and his exwife asked them if they wanted to play baseball - kids said no again. We get home and our son says, "Well, Mom said if we play we're not going to get to play with our cousins this year." Two months later, she accuses us of "not letting" them play baseball. So she tells them that we won't take them, then pretends nothing happened and asks the kids if they want to play, then accuses us of "not letting" them play when she's the one who made them not want to sign up. This is the level of insanity we deal with.

He will have anger, and in a way, that he is confident enough to express it, is a positive sign. Anger is an honest emotion, and coming from a child with his background, him getting it out, is good. Allow him alternatives to mouthing off and getting physical if he is physical, and buy him a punching bag, or put a trampoline in the yard, or enroll him in a class such as swimming, hockey, soccer, etc. He needs a physical place to express angry energy.

He is also protective of his siblings, because they likely depend on him. So it is important that you include him when you express your concerns about them. They are a package deal, one for all and all for one.

They definitely are. He even expressed a few months ago that he was worried about who was taking care of the sister on his mom's side - clearly not a 10-year-old's responsibility, but these poor kids were raising a baby so they feel as if they're in charge and need to take care of the younger sibling because their mom wasn't doing it.

We've asked if he'd like to sign up for any other classes but he says no and we don't want to force him. I really thought he'd enjoy a tae-kwan-do class but he says he doesn't want to enroll; he's very reserved and shy until he gets to know you. He didn't want to start a new school because he didn't want to have to meet new people.

As to the therapist, I would, if it were me, speak to him directly, and give him all the detail you can. Ask him to see this child more frequently for the time being, and perhaps you and your husband could even go and meet with him.

We've had a few family sessions. I think the therapist is doing the best they can, as we're trying to do. If he won't talk about what bothers him, it can't be dealt with - but you can't force him to talk about it. So you wait for him to open up and deal with it as it comes along.

As he matures, it will be hard to define the blurry line between normal development- with the attitude and developing independance, and what is being directly caused by unresolved issues with his past, that he is not capable yet of fully understanding. That is where it will be imperative that you and your husband maintain the house rules for good behaviour, with discipline and consequences, but yet make it very clear that you will talk and listen at the same time.

I hope that you and your husband can provide a united front, and you are both on the same page as far as how to deal with this boy. He has much to overcome.

That's exactly the same thing I was discussing with my dad yesterday. It's frustrating because when he pushes, we have a hard time deciding when to let him push or when to stand firm because that's exactly it: you don't know what is causing the attitude. It could be age, it could be hormones, or it could be the confusion due to his mother.

I guess I'm just looking for any suggestions above and beyond what we're doing now. Are we handling it right? Are we doing the right thing? It just gets frustrating because he really has no clue what is going on, but he thinks he does. He said he doesn't understand why his mom can't drink - because of the fact that when they were 5 & 3, she was having 14-year-olds getting drunk in her apartment while the kids were there. But he doesn't remember that and I'm not going to bring it up because that's not something you talk to a child about.

Another one I forgot: she told the kids that their father used to spank them and hit them for no reason and that he only stopped when he met me. My son says, "Dad did that until I was 7 or 8." I looked at him and said, "I met your dad when you were 5." And of course, he had no response; he doesn't remember it, he just thinks he remembers it because his mom told him that it happened.

[Jake2008]

That kid is so lucky to have you in his life.

It may very well be that the truth of his mother, and their history together, will sink in,when he is old enough to figure it out for himself.

I do think he sounds bright enough to know that what you tell him is true. He may just not yet be ready to let that guard down and accept it, or talk about it.

You ask if there is anything else you can do, and I really can't think of a base you haven't covered. I have lived through trauma with one of mine, and like you, exhausted every possible avenue to help. The beauty of all that hard work for you, will be the result, which is a happy, healthy, well adjusted adult, which is far more than could have been expected had he remained where he was.

I agree too that if he asks a direct question, he should get a direct answer. Instinct tells me that the more consistent and forthcoming you are, the more likely he will be to ask more. And in asking more, the bad behaviour may be, in part, due his frustration at knowing the truth. He wants to know, but the anger will keep shifting, because of his age, and how he processes the anger.

Again, I have to say that you are the bright light in my life today, it is refreshing to hear the love behind your words regarding your son.

I'm going to re-read this again later tonight and think about a few things. If I have anything to add to what you are already doing, I will post again.

[this8384]

That kid is so lucky to have you in his life.

It may very well be that the truth of his mother, and their history together, will sink in,when he is old enough to figure it out for himself.

I do think he sounds bright enough to know that what you tell him is true. He may just not yet be ready to let that guard down and accept it, or talk about it.

You ask if there is anything else you can do, and I really can't think of a base you haven't covered. I have lived through trauma with one of mine, and like you, exhausted every possible avenue to help. The beauty of all that hard work for you, will be the end result, which is a happy, healthy, well adjusted adult, which is far more than could have been expected had he remained where he was.

I agree too that if he asks a direct question, he should get a direct answer. Instinct tells me that the more consistant and forthcoming you are, the more likely he will be to ask more. And in asking more, the bad behaviour may be, in part, due his frustration at knowing the truth. He wants to know, but the anger will keep shifting, because of his age, and how he processes the anger.

Again, I have to say that you are the bright light in my life today, it is refreshing to hear the love behind your words regarding your son.

I'm going to re-read this again later tonight and think about a few things. If I have anything to add to what you are already doing, I will post again.

I really appreciate that :) We do try to give him honest and direct answers because I feel that shows them that they can trust us. Not make excuses, not give indirect answers - just tell them how it is in a child-appropriate way.

I feel terrible for the kids because I do know that when they're older, they're going to start seeing through their mom's lies - they're going to see her true colors and not going to like it. Unfortunately for her, all these little games she plays are only hurting her kids and will end up driving them away from her in the end.

It's just hard because right now, we encourage honesty and openness. Then his mother tells him to lie and hide secrets, so he accuses US of lying and hiding secrets. It's completely backwards but again, it's her control over them right now - they don't understand why their mother would lie to them so they think she's being honest.