[excon]

Many of the illegals after all have fake (forged) papers with stolen or invalid SSN's that may appear valid to employers that don't have the ability to verify them,

Hello again, smoothy:

You'd think that in these days of Patriot Act invasions, that employers in this country would be able to identify exactly WHO is applying... And, they could too, if we had a national ID card. But, conservatives don't want to do that... I don't know why..

Hmmm... I wonder if it has to do with giving COVER to their ILLEGAL HIRING practices, like you just did. Nahhh... They wouldn't do that, would they?

excon

[Wondergirl]

All illegals aren't Latino....not all illegals barely speak english.....and not all illegals are poorly eductated. And MOST IMPORTANT, not all illegals hold menial labor jobs.

True, but the majority are and do.

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

You'd think that in these days of Patriot Act invasions, that employers in this country would be able to identify exactly WHO is applying.... And, they could too, if we had a national ID card. But, conservatives don't wanna do that... I dunno why..

Hmmm.... I wonder if it has to do with giving COVER to their ILLEGAL HIRING practices, like you just did. Nahhh... They wouldn't do that, would they?

excon

Really any proof of THAT claim...


It was the Democrats that were screaming about NOT having a national Id Card when it came up under Bush.


And Besides... 19 months now Democrats have been in the White house, and held Majorities in the House and Senate... exactly WHAT was stopping them from doing it if it's a cause they support?

[smoothy]

True, but the majority are and do.

Doesn't matter. Latinos aren't either an endangered species or a protected class.

There are no civil wars in latino countries at this time... and there are no ongoing famins or Genocides. There is NO excuse for not staying in their homeland until they get legal permission to come here the right way. Brown, black, white or yellow. It applies to everyone.

[Wondergirl]

There are no civil wars in latino countries at this time

The drug wars in Mexico?

[excon]

Really any proof of THAT claim...

Hello again, smoothy:

You should know by now that I don't guess about the stuff I say. If I say it, you can take it to the bank!

The Democrats' immigration-reform proposal is 26 pages long. Pages 8 through 18 are devoted to "ending illegal employment through biometric employment verification." I don't think the Democrats are going to like me calling this a biometric national ID card, as they go to great lengths to say that it is not a national ID card, but it is.

Uhhhh, the Republicans didn't support this bill, or it would BE the law, and you couldn't whine anymore.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

You should know by now that I don't guess about the stuff I say. If I say it, you can take it to the bank!

The Democrats' immigration-reform proposal is 26 pages long. Pages 8 through 18 are devoted to "ending illegal employment through biometric employment verification." I don't think the Democrats are going to like me calling this a biometric national ID card, as they go to great lengths to say that it is not a national ID card, but it is.

Uhhhh, the Republicans didn't support this bill, or it would BE the law, and you couldn't whine anymore.

excon

So, explain the Democrats opposition of a national ID card when Bush Proposed it.

Coalition letter to President Bush Urging Him to Reject National ID Card | American Civil Liberties Union

Dated 2002.. 8 years ago... and the negativity from the left, and look at the list of Liberals opposing it when Bush first suggested it. Funny how certain democrats will jump on the Obama bandwagon when the Messiah proposses it, yet fought against the very same thing only several years earlier under Bush.

[smoothy]

The drug wars in Mexico?

But the Drug dealers and users are such nice people they (the liberals) want to incorporate them into our economy.

So... they can't go south in their own country...


And besides... lame excuse since so many AREN'T Mexican to begin with.

[Wondergirl]

And besides....lame excuse since so many AREN'T Mexican to begin with.

And what are they?

[excon]

So, explain the Democrats opposition of a national ID card when Bush Proposed it.

Hello again, smoothy:

I don't know. How about they opposed it because they opposed EVERYTHING Bush put on the table (except the invasion of Iraq, the Patriot Act, torture, and stuff like that), EVEN legislation they liked simply because of WHO was proposing it?? Exactly like the Republicans are doing now...

What?? You think, that I think the Democrats are great governors and leaders?? Hmmm. You really haven't read much of my stuff, have you?

excon

[smoothy]

And what are they?

Look on a map... Mexico doesn't encompass everything between Texas and Antartica. Most of the Illegals come from the northern half of South America, and the entirety of Central America on top of Mexico, and most come Through mexico doing it.

Want to see hypocrisy... Look at Mexicos laws about Illegals... then listen to Calderone harping about us not having open borders.

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

I dunno. How about they opposed it because they opposed EVERYTHING Bush put on the table (except the invasion of Iraq, the Patriot Act, torture, and stuff like that), EVEN legislation they liked simply because of WHO was proposing it??? Exactly like the Republicans are doing now....

What??? You think, that I think the Democrats are great governors and leaders??? Hmmm. You really haven't read much of my stuff, have you?

excon

Well, Obama didn't support the Surge in Iraq... Harry Ried was saying it didn't work and the war was lost... before the surge ever started... and tries to take credit for it just the same.

But heck... we all know the Democrats mindset... They Hated every good idea and good thing George Bush had and did... but they would cheerfully support Obama shreading the Constitution, just because the Messiah was doing it. They would even think the very same things were a good Idea if Obama suggested it even when they fought the very same things when Bush suggested them.


Personally, I think the right national ID would be good... and prevent voter fraud in Democrat disticts.

But I know the democrats, and they would set up a table at the border and give the ID's to every illegal that crossed the border eliminating any possible good it would achieve. And essentually make it worthless.

[tomder55]

I would hardly call an outline entitled 'Conceptual Proposal for Immigration Reform'.. "legislation". This is not even in committee for consideration.

The biometric SS card is not a new idea . It has been on the table for years. It is silly to say that Republicans are against it because they oppose the comprehensive reform ideas the Democrats make. All I had to do is read the 1st page ,with the Democrats paying lip service to border security to know how phony this is . They are sly... I'll give them that much . In an election year where John McCain has suddenly found the merits of border security ;they added language in this blue print that he would have a hard time objecting to. His Democrat opponent will use the same political argument that Excon just used.. . if you oppose this proposal it must then be true that you oppose border security (or biomatrix id cards etc. ).
These proposals will never see the light of day in Democrat sponsored lmmigration reform legislation.

You think I'm wrong ? This phony proposal calls for drones to patrol the border . You really think the Dems want that ? The proposal gives DHS the authority to deploy the National Guard for border patrol . That's a Dem idea ? Lol

It is not a serious proposal and I suspect Excon is well aware of that.

[smoothy]

Well, whatever happens... Obama will Blame it on Bush... and the democrats won't hold the new title holder "The Teflon Don" responsible for anything he does on his watch, under his authority. Been 19 months so far... only 25 more to go... why start accepting responsibility now...

[excon]

You think I'm wrong ? This phony proposal calls for drones to patrol the border . You really think the Dems want that ? The proposal gives DHS the authority to deploy the National Guard for border patrol . That's a Dem idea ? lol

It is not a serious proposal and I suspect Excon is well aware of that.

Hello again, tom:

Certainly I think you're wrong.. Maybe my eyes were deceiving me, but I believe Obama LAUNCHED a drone on the border YESTERDAY... Something you say the Dems DON'T want, and won't DO... Whadya know about that?

excon

[tomder55]

Well how about that?! Are they armed ? We could have an 'Alien versus Predator' sequel .

[magprob]

wrong premise . When she speaks of the elites ,she speaks of progressive,liberal ,Washington DC ,or Hollywood elites. She is not refering to their level of education.

It is these "elites" she is refering to who think the people who do things like attend tea party rallies or oppose the progressive agenda are the uneducated ya-hoos.

They even wrote a book about the stupid people who don't see things their way.
'What's the Matter with Kansas?' tries to explain the ignorant folks who ,according to the author vote ,against their own self interest .
The elite progressives creamed when they read this because it affirmed all their misconceptions about the people in "flyover country".
It was on the bible of the elites ;the NY Slimes best seller's list for 18 weeks .

Like you ,the author of this book presumes that the unwashed masses are led like sheeple because they are too stupid to weigh the benefits of the opposing positions and come to conclusions on their own.

The obvious flaws in your thesis is that overwhelmingly the poorer less educated people of this country tend to support the liberals agenda of a government nanny-state.It is the progressives who have a stake in keeping the poor and uneducated ignorant. It is this group that they count on as a voting block.

Further ,the underlying assumption that it is manipulation of social issues that keeps us dummies stirred up is false. The tea party movement has been almost totally an economic revolt against a government that thinks everyone has a bottomless pocket.It is resistance to the expansion of government power, and intrusiveness.It is the national debt fueled by out of control spending that has fueled this movement.

And how have the "elites " those people you think are educated responded ? They are contemptuous of people who disagree with them . Tea party supporters are called tea-baggers .A legitimate grass roots movement is disparaged as "astro-turf". We are racists for not going along with the radical agenda of the President. We are nativists because we think the government should control illegal immigration . We are homophobic for opposing a radical redefinition of marriage .And now our phobias have extended to Muslims because we think it's a bad idea to build a towering mosque over the WTC site .

We the "bitter clingers" (Obama's words to a gathering of wine and brie "educated elites "in San Fran) are a bunch of Know-nothings according to Timothy Egan of the NY Slimes.

It is the progressives in this country who think that the masses are insecure bitter clinging intolerant bigots who need to be governed by an aristocracy of educated(leftist) elites.

YEAH! tomder55 for president so's us poor unedjemacated idiots can have someone who ain't all upity upity and stuff. Them upity upity folks think they poop don't stink!
Right on tomder55.

[bleusong52]

Where is science and civics kept out the classroom? Where is religion being brought into the classroom? Not around here. Oh wait, maybe I think that because I am not the "elite" but rather the "common sense" variety of citizen.

When my son was in high and in biology class, my (now ex) husband and I went to talk to the teacher and ask if the opposing theory of evolution could be introduced in the classroom (that being creationism) and she said no. If we wanted that taught, we were (and did) to do that at home.

This garbage about elite versus uneducated has been going on hundreds of years already. I do not deny that is occurs. It's the way to make the other look better than they really are. I went to college where plenty of silver-spooned young adults attended and were insufferable. If anything, they loved to throw that "better than you" around. I always remembered what my Dad taught me - they all have to sit on the toilet the same way.

[excon]

Where is science and civics kept out the classroom? Where is religion being brought into the classroom?

When my son was in high and in biology class, my (now ex) husband and I went to talk to the teacher and ask if the opposing theory of evolution could be introduced in the classroom (that being creationism) and she said no.

Hello bleu:

If it's not around there, it's because you FAILED at your mission. However, SOME parents have been successful at bringing creationism into the classroom, like you TRIED to do, and it's THOSE classes in particular that I'm referring to..

excon

[NeedKarma]

What is this "elite" american type that you guys refer to? I never got that. Anyone have a good definition for me?