[JudyKayTee]

I notice you jumped on Kit to criticize her; you didn't have one word for me when I offered you every word of support I had.

Yes, you are CHOOSING to be offended.

If you want your post removed, stop posting and it will die.

[PrivateID]

You didn't, Kit, you didn't. She CHOOSES to be offended - and it's a conscious choice. Another "good-bye forever" person who still is signed on.


Wow. Okay. I'll sign off. I won't read any further. I didn't choose to be offended.

[dobguy1]

Wow... 1 word Therapy

[Kitkat22]

I didn't say anything to warrant your outburst.

When I said pick up the phone is was to call when you need help.

When I said people don't have to die for you, so don't let them live for you"

People talk and I stand beside what I said, you can't stop them from talking, but you can try to ignore it.

[PrivateID]

Jake, JudyKayTree, everone else who responded; thank you for your honest words. I did indeed appreciate the honesty, just as I appreciated Kit's up to a point.

You are entitled to your opinions. We all are.

Just because someone is in bad shape does not mean they have not picked up a phone for help.

Just because someone's having a hard time, and is in an emotional distress does not mean that they brought that onto themselves, nor does it mean that they caused or deserve it.

KitKat - People will never remember your name, birthday or where you are from, but they will always remember the way you treat them.

I didn't make that up. If I've misunderstood your wording, I apologize.

If I was using this forum to help people, it would solely be because I want to help them. It would never be for self-gratification or to use as a sounding board to hear my own voice speak. I would never misuse it to get my aggressions out nor to put others down.

I fully intend to hang around here, even though when I'm being put down by so many people, my instincts are to run. I think that's pretty normal.

I do have some excellent advice to offer others in my areas of expertise, and I look forward to others who have things to say about my post.

I am a good person, no matter what these women and men say. None of you know me. You all met a terribly depressed, distressed, emotional disaster who is on the verge of suicide and who has nobody to talk to... she came here to ask for support... advice... maybe a friend.

It should NOT be a fingerpointing contest. When any forum goes there, that's completely and totally wrong. Especially in a thread asking for help in a truly desperate state of mind. People in my state of mind, right now, often react completely out of character because they feel hurt, scared, worried, alone... isolated, etc.

Kat, good luck. I am VERY thankful for the nice things you said, however, I sat on this response awhile and I still read what you originally wrote (not the rewrite) as what it said. I came back unemotional to take a second look. I still think just like you... I stand by what I said. But I'm adult enough to admit I am emotional today. Maybe in a week or so I will realize I was touchy.

There was no outburst by me either. Just wrote down what I was feeling there... nothing meant rude or said in a "tone".

I do agree to a point. I do need to stop letting it hurt me, what people say, but the problem is that it DOES hurt, regardless of what I need to do.

It hurts. Plain and simple, and unlike most people, I do not seem to have that ability to turn off my emotions and just let it ride. I have tried my entire life.

I'm 45. It's not going to happen now.

My one daughter and I are extremely close. She and I are nearly inseparable. I think that speaks for itself. I did a great job with her. She's going to be a hard worker, like her mother, and she will be a well-educated person, like her mother, and she will make something of herself, but my other daughter is terribly jealous of her and hard on her also.

Just because I am in ill-health now, and depressed now, does not mean I always have been.

The issue here isn't whether KitKat and I agree on her post.

It is about the originating post, and the answers received so far are appreciated and were answered in a timely fashion, to the best of my abilities. I did not mean to leave anyone out.

I apologize to everyone if you have been offended by anything I said.

[Kitkat22]

You said something in your post about me that has me puzzled. You said "I know KitKat has her followers" which I don't ,I have friends.
Why would you think I have followers if you have never been on this site
Before?

You jumped down my throat and you didn't say anything to anyone else. Why? I hope you get better, but in order to do that you have to change your way of dealing with people. I did nothing to warrant your outburst. I'm puzzled about you.

[PrivateID]

Again, there was no outburst.

I did not realize you are friends in real life. Followers (follow certain posters to forums, I am an IT professional. That is a typical term)... friends, both come to support other followers or friends. Enough. Please?

Do you have a PHD, Kitkat? If not, please don't diagnose me as needing to get better.

I don't want to argue. I think I was more than apologetic in the last post and the adult thing, to do, is to realize I came here emotinal and to chalk it up to that, not to keep riding me. I came for some advice, not an argument.

Again, please? Can we go forward?

Please, let's move forward?

[FoxCash]

I have to say that in your first post you're asking of our advice and you want us to give you the truth. But when one person does that you get offended you go into a full blown mental break down of "Why me".

To me that suggests you need more than we are able to give you on this forum.

Kit's post was only not offensive it was something that I felt could be applied to anyone, not just you. I'm still new on these forums but I have yet to see a post from anyone here who tried to help you that was intentionally cruel, including Kit.

To be honest the vibe I got from her post was that of someone being comforting and understanding.

She was correct in that people will always say mean things, will lie about situations and further try to push away people.

Part of the problem in this is that I feel you are not realizing the pain your daughter is in. You're only focusing on the pain this is all causing you. Which it's great to work on yourself but if you ignore everything around you, only take account for your own feelings you may find yourself unable to heal from things of the past.

There are also other options out there where you do not have to wait 6 weeks for an appointment. Yes, even in California. I suggest tracking down your local chapter for the YWCA. They have resources to help you whether it be mentally, physically, or family oriented. And if they don't have the resources to fully help you, you can bet they know who does and can set that up for you.

But part of me thinks you don't want to make the effort to seek out options. You'd rather wait and make yourself out to be the victim of it all. Blaming one person or another. While you hate the way you feel, it's also a comfort zone to you. This is all you know. To change that is one hell of a scary step. But until you make the effort to do it, take blame everywhere where it's applied and own up to other's pain this is all your life is going to be. And it's not fun.

I know first hand. While my situation is very different from yours I too have ruined relationships and am just now trying very hard to apologize and work on those relationships.

I am in a situation where I am estranged from someone. Someone who caused ME great pain in my life but that pain doesn't excuse my mistakes and bad choices. I made the choice to confront those issues and try to make amends. I'm still waiting on the outcome from that and it may be something that surprises me and says we can work on our relationship or it could be like your daughter was when she said not to text her anymore. And no matter how scared I am of that outcome, I know I needed to try and so I did. And, because of what Kit wrote, I know that no matter what the outcome is that I cannot stop my life and my healing because of that. Because I tried and I am making the steps to move forward and fix things.

You can only do so much when it comes to your daughter. She didn't have an easy life and I'm sure there is a lot of resentment. That is something she is going to have to decide if she wants to work on it or not. And even if it's not right now it may be in the future. It seems the pain may be too near for her right now to figure things out and pushing you away may be the only comfort she has right now.

I personally think her pushing you away right now may be the best thing for everyone involved. And I do not mean that in any harsh way at all. But where YOU are at right now isn't really a place that can handle everything involved to move forward with her, to get her forgiveness and for you to forgive her.

One thing I have learned so far on this journey I am going in to turn my life around is that the excuses have to stop. To continue to find excuses for everything we do, we say, or have done in the past need to quit so we can take ownership of everything.

Just because someone's having a hard time, and is in an emotional distress does not mean that they brought that onto themselves, nor does it mean that they caused or deserve it.

No, it doesn't mean that all of the time. But this is not just the fault of your Mother, your daughter or anyone else. You DO have fault in this and you need to realize that and figure it out in order to move forward for both healing for yourself and your daughter.

People will never remember your name, birthday or where you are from, but they will always remember the way you treat them.

I'm sure your daughter would agree.

If I was using this forum to help people, it would solely be because I want to help them. It would never be for self-gratification or to use as a sounding board to hear my own voice speak. I would never misuse it to get my aggressions out nor to put others down.

This forum is one of the nicest advice forums I've ever been on. The people here really seem to care for one another. Whether it be members here to help others or those just popping in with a question and needing help. I've seen debates on here where people are actually decent to each other. I have yet to see anyone be intentionally cruel and if there has been in the past it seems to me moderators step in right away and take care of the situation.

I fully intend to hang around here, even though when I'm being put down by so many people, my instincts are to run. I think that's pretty normal.

You're not being put down by anyone here. You're being put down by your own mind. Everyone here is volunteering their time to help you because they actually care. If they didn't there are other people on here that need help. If they didn't care I am sure they could show you a more "cruel" side then you feel you've already seen.

Running for you is normal. It's comforting. But how is that working out for you?

None of you know me.

Do you know yourself? I'm not asking that to be harsh but seriously, do you know who you are?

These things:

You all met a terribly depressed, distressed, emotional disaster who is on the verge of suicide and who has nobody to talk to... she came here to ask for support... advice... maybe a friend.

Do not define you! So, who are you?

People in my state of mind, right now, often react completely out of character because they feel hurt, scared, worried, alone... isolated, etc.

So you want us to help you with kid gloves on? Treat you like you're a victim? You're using those words as a crutch. Sadly, doing that is only making your situation worse. I'm not denying the way you are feeling but you need to walk away from saying things like this or further adding that we're all talking to someone who is suicidal. For one, if you're suicidal there is nothing here we can do for you. You need to either get yourself to a hospital or call a suicide hotline (1-800-273-8255).

I do need to stop letting it hurt me, what people say, but the problem is that it DOES hurt, regardless of what I need to do.

Someone once told me hurt people, hurt people. How very true it is. It's going to hurt until you do the things you need to do. Do you want to keep hurting from this and then hurting those around you or do you want to move on and work towards better things?

I'm 45. It's not going to happen now.

With this attitude you currently have, no it's not. But if you go back and listen to what I said about making excuses you will realize that if you put in the effort and the word that yes it can happen. Things can get better but only IF you want it to.

Again, not trying to be harsh but you need to realize that you and only you have the ability to fix what is going on in YOUR life. You can decide to keep finding comfort in your pain and play the victim or you can decide to do something about it.

You're so stuck in the victim mentality that I don't think you even see that you've contradicted yourself in your posts. First you stated this:

I do not have any friends. I have nobody. I am 100% isolated, which I probably caused myself, because I would rather be alone than ruin a friendship. It hurts too much to ruin things like that and every relationship I have had ends up ruined. I'd rather not have the hurt.

You say you have no friends, you mentioned in the OP that you lost best friends. At some point you did. You also mentioned in a later post that a FRIEND was telling you how they feel you're deluded about the relationship with your daughter.

You say you have "nobody" but yet say this:

My one daughter and I are extremely close. She and I are nearly inseperable. I think that speaks for itself. I did a great job with her. She's going to be a hard worker, like her mother, and she will be a well-educated person, like her mother, and she will make something of herself

Clearly you DO have someone. You are so blinded by the pain, hurt, and guilt that you cannot see what is in front of you. You cannot see that you need to get yourself better before trying to repair a relationship with your daughter or anyone. Once you have yourself situated you will be ready to take on everything else that is in front of you and move on with the results of that whether it's a good turn out or not.

my other daughter is terribly jealous of her

I can understand why she is jealous of your other daughter, can you? I'm not agreeing with the way she's dealing with her own pain but it's her own pain. She has hers, you have yours. She needs to work on her pain and hurt just like you do. And until the both of you do so there is no way you can fix anything.

This is a quote that has been a big help to me during my journey, may it help you too.

You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space. - Johnny Cash

[Alty]

I don't have any advice that you haven't already been given, but I do have to post.

Yes, Kitkat is a friend of mine, so is Judy, Jake, and many other people on this site. By the way, hi FoxCash, welcome to the site. I've loved reading your posts. You're a very welcome addition to our family.

To the OP, one thing you should know about all of us before you go off on one of our members. If Kit had been rude to you or said something offensive to you, none of us would have sugarcoated anything, we wouldn't have backed her up, and we would have told her, or anyone that posted, that their post was not appropriate. I've done it before, all of us have. We care about this site and we care about the people coming here for advice.

As friends we can be honest with each other, and we are. Judy is one of the best friends I have on this site, I adore her (well darnit, now I'm crying), but we don't always agree and we're far from shy about telling each other that we don't.

That's not how we do things. If someone gives bad advice, or is cruel, or rude, we're the first ones to slap them on the hand. None of us will stand back and support someone if they're in the wrong.

Kit did nothing wrong. Nothing. This one's on you and you alone. If you took offense, than perhaps she hit a sore spot. That sore spot is probably the answer to your question. If you want help, ask yourself why you were offended, because that's where the truth lies.

[PrivateID]

I can't even respond. They are moderating my posts. So, what I said to kit after her post won't be posted until all her friends come to stand beside her. Especially when I AM a victim... and yes, I have posted a long post, and in it I admit my faults. I am absolutely NOT blind to them... this has turned into something mean and you know, I can tell that even though I apologized and asked Kit to go forward (in a post being held for moderation) that I am not wanted here. I've been nothing but nice to you all.

[QLP]

Out of greenies, but KitKat, you said nothing that would cause offense. Alty, you told it like it is , as always.

To the OP, everyone here is genuinely trying to help. I really don't see where anyone is trying to put you down. What they are trying to do is spur you on to do as much as possible to make your situation better. Yes it is difficult. Pretty much everyone who has responded has had to overcome major adversity in their own lives and come out stronger on the other side. It is the fact that they have done so that gives them understanding in how we can all hold ourselves back from making progress by our feelings of helplessness. This is not a negative judgement it is simply an understanding of human nature.

[JudyKayTee]

Well, Alty summed it all up. I do note that OP started with "I'm all ears. I will respect your opionions, negative or positive" and then went off in another direction.

At any rate - as Jake said, you can't MAKE anyone change.

[Curlyben]

I can't even respond. They are moderating my posts.

Actually NO. That would be per-reviewed moderation brought about by your current negative reputation.

[Alty]

I can't even respond. They are moderating my posts. So, what I said to kit after her post won't be posted until all her friends come to stand beside her. Especially when I AM a victim.

Victim of what? Read Kits posts again, she's been nothing but kind. You are the one that jumped on her, she is the victim here, not you. If you can't see that than perhaps that's part of the problem. Is this how you deal with day to day contact with the people in your life? Is everything that goes wrong, every altercation, someone else's fault even when it's clearly in your hands?

this has turned into something mean and you know, I can tell that even though I apologized and asked Kit to go forward (in a post being held for moderation) that I am not wanted here. I've been nothing but nice to you all.

Mean? Where? Point that out because I don't see it. Kit posted and she gave you advice. She wasn't at all mean, but your response to her was. What you said to her was uncalled for, rude, and out of line. If Kit had been mean I would have told her so, all of us would have. The fact is, she wasn't mean at all, it was you that was mean, so if you feel that that's where this thread has gone, that's on you, not on anyone else.

You haven't been nice to all of us. You were very unkind to Kit, but you view yourself as the victim here. That's mind boggling. I can't believe that you don't see that you started this. Even after you went off on Kit no one was mean to you, we simply pointed out that your rude post to her was uncalled for. Again, this is on you, no one else.

If you plan to apologize I'm sure that Kit will accept that apology. That's the kind of person she is.

I can only speak for myself, but if you apologize and want to continue discussing this, want advice, than I'm more than willing to let by gones be by gones and move forward. If that's what you decide you have to remember that we have many members on this site, you won't always hear what you want to hear, but you will get advice. It's up to you to read the posts, choose what you think will work for you. If, for some reason, you find a post not to your liking, ignore it, but don't go off on the person that posted it.

You are welcome here, but not if you're going to be unkind to people.

Let me know what you decide and we can move forward or I can ask the mods to close this thread and be done with it.

[ScottGem]

OK, I'm going to step in here.

From your original post: "No whitewashing it folks, please, give me some advice." Yet when you received some advice you didn't like you lashed out at it.

It was mentioned in an earlier response that we have been burned by others posting sob stories here. So when you attacked a highly respected member of this site, without ANY justification (IMHO) yes her friends are going to take a different look at your story and your posts. That one response lost you a lot of respect that you might otherwise have earned.

That all being said, I think we have all made our positions clear so I'm going to return this thread to its original purpose. I will not allow any further posts in this thread discussing your unwarranted attack.

Now I'm going to reinforce Kit's advice. You have made a mess of your relationships with your daughters. Some of this mess was caused by your mother, some of it by your own inexperience (your situation is a great example why children should NOT be having children) and some of it caused by yourself.

But the bottom line is you NEED several sessions with a trained professional to deal with your lack of self-esteem and destructive tendencies. Only after you deal with these and understand that you can't reverse the mistakes of the past, can you try to go forward. At some point the therapist will probably want to integrate your daughters into your therapy. But they also need to understand their own biases first.

In my opinion this is the only way you will make any progress with your situation.

[dontknownuthin]

I think you need counseling, probably medication for depression and help with behavior modification. I don't think fixing the relationship with your daughter is even the most important thing right now - you have to fix your relationship with yourself and your own self-image. You need to learn to rely on yourself and trust that you are more than enough, and you need to learn to live up to your own picture of a respectable, worthwhile person. I get a feeling life has been hard on you, and you've been even harder on yourself. You've criticized yourself to death, and have not treated yourself well with your behaviors - whether experimenting with drinking, neglecting your body, letting your house get out of control, or getting a dog that you did not take the time to properly train - these are all actions of a person who needs to learn to have self respect. It's not about being lazy -it's about being depressed and not having confidence or the expectation for better for yourself.

If you can't afford counseling, call your local county. If they don't help, go to the emergency room and tell them you feel you are in a serious depression and need help. It may sound severe, but you've been battered by life for years and extreme measures would not be unreasonable to get on the right track.

Don't let another day go by without a plan in place to get help with your depression - not one day. You don't have to live like this - absolutely not.

[J_9]

You aren't trapped in my condition or my health issues and you have no idea how the Medi-Cal system in California works (or as it is...does NOT work). SIX weeks til the appointment for anti-depressants. Physically, I am getting help. I posted I have been undergoing cancer screening...I am seeing a physician.

I'm just going to make this short and sweet. You don't have to wait 6 weeks for anti-depressant meds if you are already seeing a physician. ANY physician can prescribe these.

Also, if you are seeing a physician about possible cancer, this physician SHOULD be prescribing this to you already due to the nature of your visitis with him/her.

Before you question me... I am a registered nurse and also a cancer survivor. I WAS prescribed anti-depressants by a primary care physician when I was diagnosed with cancer. NEVER saw a psychiatrist.

[Aurora_Bell]

I want to say something here too. I don't want you to feel that we are all jumping on you. If you truly are a new member, then one thing you should know about AMHD is we all started here with a question of our own. Whether it was a personal health issue, a family issue, or looking for a name of a movie, regardless, we all started here seeking help.

None of the people who responded were here to judge or be cruel. We volunteer our time here, because we love to help. Even if it's recommending a good carpet cleaner, it feels nice knowing that you may have made some one's life easier.

I am not sure why you took Kit's post so personal, but I can honestly tell you, Kit is one of the kindest and honest person I have virtually met. I really liked her post about "people won't die for you, so don't let them live for you", judging by your post, you are an intelligent person, and I think you know exactly what she meant by that.

It was not meant to be mean or hurtful. A lot of us who started here had our own obsticals to over come, and if you are going to be put off by this one comment which was meant to help, not hurt, than you are not only going to miss out on getting to know great people, Kit included, and making some great online friends, but also you are going to miss out on a great site.

Good luck Private ID, I hope you re consider. As far as your original post, I can not offer any further advice then what has been given. But I can offer my ears and thoughts on ideas YOU have to help your situation.

[anne54]

I am in the same situation and ii can't believe what I'm going through my daughter is 28 her sister talks to me but she doesn't! I don't know what to do anymore even when she comes visit my daughter I can't be anywhere near
In my heart I know she loves me but is afraid of the disappontment I created 10 years ago.But these children only have one mother and should learn life is full of bumpy roads
I wish I knew what to tell you just keep belivieng I know I will never have contact but I hope your situation becomes better