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Triund · Aug 20, 2010, 07:09 AM

Today I was reading John 17 in which Jesus prayed to Lord the Father for Himself, for His disciples and for other believers. Verse 9 says,"I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours." Then in Jeremiah Lord God told Jeremiah," So do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not hear them in the time that they cry out to Me because of their trouble."

I have a list of people who are both Christians and non Christians and I pray to Lord God for their salvation. If we tallk about pre-destination, then I know that if they are not in the list of Lord God they would not be saved.

My question is how do we know for whom should we pray and for whom not. Why do you think that Jesus did not pray for the salvation of the whole world whereas Lord the Father does not want any soul to be lost.

dwashbur · Aug 20, 2010, 09:00 AM

Jesus' prayer was in a specific context. Basically he said "at the moment I'm not praying for the world, but only for these guys who are listening." The command to Jeremiah was about a specific group of people for a specific reason. Context is everything.

There's a more general command/principle to be found in 1 Timothy 2:1-7, where Paul says in so many words that we should pray for everyone, and that God wants everyone to be saved and come to knowledge of the truth. So unless you've received some specific message from God - and if you think you have, be VERY suspicious - there's nothing wrong with praying for your friends, especially your non-Christian ones.

classyT · Aug 20, 2010, 04:05 PM

Truind,

I agree with Dave.

Dave,

... and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Love that part in the verse in I Timothy... :).

dwashbur · Aug 20, 2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

truind,

I agree with Dave.

Dave,

...and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Love that part in the verse in I Timothy....:).

Yep, I keep praying that for you, T ;)

classyT · Aug 21, 2010, 07:10 PM

Dave,

Ha ha ha.. ;)

dwashbur · Aug 22, 2010, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Dave,

ha ha ha.. ;)

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your servers. :D

De Maria · Aug 28, 2010, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Triund

Today I was reading John 17 in which Jesus prayed to Lord the Father for Himself, for His disciples and for other believers. Verse 9 says,"I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours." Then in Jeremiah Lord God told Jeremiah," So do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not hear them in the time that they cry out to Me because of their trouble."

I have a list of people who are both Christians and non Christians and I pray to Lord God for their salvation. If we tallk about pre-destination, then I know that if they are not in the list of Lord God they would not be saved.

My question is how do we know for whom should we pray and for whom not.

It is difficult. But there are some for whom we do not have to pray:
1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Therefore, I don't pray for people like Charles Manson and Adolf Hitler. I suspect they blasphemed the Holy Spirit and God will judge them.

I also do not pray for those who do not want my prayers.
Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I have on occasion said to someone that I would pray for them and they announced that they wanted nothing of the sort. I respect their decisions.

I pray for all others, as instructed by Scripture and the Church. I pray in general for people in the abortion industry because of the conversions of people such as Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the Father of abortion, who committed several thousand abortions and even aborted his own child, and yet turned to God and risen to such levels of holiness that it would be impossible to know what they had done by their present behaviour. And Norma McCorvey, of Roe vs. Wade fame.

Why do you think that Jesus did not pray for the salvation of the whole world whereas Lord the Father does not want any soul to be lost.

Because Jesus came to save those who obey:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

He gave everyone the opportunity, but not all wanted it. Only those who did and who accepted it will be saved.

Sincerely,

Triund · Sep 6, 2010, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by De Maria

It is difficult. But there are some for whom we do not have to pray:....,

......He gave everyone the opportunity, but not all wanted it. Only those who did and who accepted it will be saved.

Thanks DM for such a detailed answer. There is no doubt that ones who reject Jesus would not be saved. I have experience with people who would tell me not to pray for them. They would love to listen me on any topic but about Jesus. I do feel offended though I am not supposed to do it. I am struggling big time with this problem and I know I would come around with the help of Lord Jesus. I do not know how sincerely people prayed for Adolf Hitler or Stalin or Saddam. I know people who were in the dark world. People, sometime their own family or not their own family - just someone concerned, prayed for their deliverance and they got delivered and came to Lord Jesus. Though I do not pray with people who reject Jesus, but still I remember them in my personal prayers as I know that their decision would cost them big time. Yet I hope with sincere prayers Lord God would eventaully touch them and bring them around because prayers have been heard for generations and been answered. Even if HE does not touch them that is HIS sovereignty, that is HIS will because HE is the Creator not me.

One thing I fully know and well understand that one can not come to Jesus till Father draws him to Him(John 6:44). I do not know if I could attach this verse with Pre-destination in Christian belief. If I could attach these two together, then can I afford to sit back and not share Jesus with people or pray for them?

De Maria · Sep 6, 2010, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Triund

Thanks DM for such a detailed answer. There is no doubt that ones who reject Jesus would not be saved. I have experience with people who would tell me not to pray for them. They would love to listen me on any topic but about Jesus. I do feel offended though I am not supposed to do it. I am struggling big time with this problem and I know I would come around with the help of Lord Jesus. I do not know how sincerely people prayed for Adolf Hitler or Stalin or Saddam. I know people who were in the dark world. People, sometime their own family or not their own family - just someone concerned, prayed for their deliverance and they got delivered and came to Lord Jesus. Though I do not pray with people who reject Jesus, but still I remember them in my personal prayers as I know that their decision would cost them big time. Yet I hope with sincere prayers Lord God would eventaully touch them and bring them around because prayers have been heard for generations and been answered. Even if HE does not touch them that is HIS sovereignity, that is HIS will because HE is the Creator not me.

One thing I fully know and well understand that one can not come to Jesus till Father draws him to Him(John 6:44). I do not know if I could attach this verse with Pre-destination in Christian belief. If I could attach these two together, then can I afford to sit back and not share Jesus with people or pray for them?

You might be the instrument the Father is using to draw them.

Triund · Sep 11, 2010, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by De Maria

You might be the instrument the Father is using to draw them.

I really want HIM to use me to bring fruit for HIM with whatever resources I have.

De Maria · Sep 11, 2010, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Triund

I really want HIM to use me to bring fruit for HIM with whatever resources I have.

God will bless you for that.

Cindersarah · Nov 3, 2010, 05:43 PM

Okay, due to laziness I only skimmed other people's answers, so I may be repeating what others say...

When the New Testement contridicts the old testement, I tend to go with the New Testement as it is after Jesus... I am a follower of Jesus Christ after all... so I'll just focus on the Jesus quote here, if that's all right. "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours." Okay, he's not praying for the WORLD. The world is hugee and full of many different things... including dark, evil, twisted schtuff... (yes, I do believe that people can still be possessed by demons.) But he says he's praying for those you have given me.. . Jesus died for EVERYONE'S sins... including Hitler, including the creepy stalker boy across the street who picks his nose... everyone! So that means pray for everyone to find salvation, as everyone is God's children. EVERYONE! (Just in case you didn't get my drift... everyone!) I think bad people need prayer too, because they're the ones who need it the most!

So if you're wondering who to pray for, there is no wrong answer. Everyone needs prayer. You're allowed to focus on certain people though, and you're allowed to pray for yourself.. . But I don't think excluding someone on purpose is right.

And that's my tidbit. :)