[BABRAM]

13- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem on a donkey: Zechariah 9:9.... John 12:13-14.
- Zec.9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. (Isa.62:11)

That's a good example of why "Judaism rejected Jesus as Messiah." In complete context, using the JPS (Hebrew to English) the following verse in Zechariah 9:10 reads,"He shall shall banish chariots from Ephraim and horses from Jerusalem. The warrior's bow shall be banished. He shall call on the nations to surrender. And his rule shall extend from sea to sea and from ocean to land's end." And that's just the first verse listed above of the many that is out of context.


Bobby

[Soldout]

The verses actually read
9 “ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim
And the horse from Jerusalem;
The battle bow shall be cut off.
He shall speak peace to the nations;
His dominion shall be 'from sea to sea,
And from the River to the ends of the earth.'[a]

There is nothing out of context here. This is a strait translation from hebrew text.

[ETWolverine]

First of all, do you actually read and speak Hebrew? I do. So if you are going to state that something is a "strait translation from the hebrew text" you should be sure that it is true first.

Second, exactly when has Jesus' dominion been "from sea to sea"? Exactly when has he had dominion over anything? Twice so far, according to Christian scripture, Jesus lived without ever becoming a king or having anything remotely like dominion over the land.

Nor was Jesus able to speak "peace to the nations"... as far as I can tell the only nations he spoke to in the Christian scripture were Israel and the Romans, and neither one was exactly in a listening mood when he spoke peace. He certainly didn't manage to speak peace to any other nations. The "battle bow" was never cut off. And he never achieved any sort of peace.

So exactly what part of this prophesy came true, Soldout?

I can do the same excersize with each of your citations, if you'd like. But the bottom line is that Jesus really doesn't fulfill any Messianic prophesies. Not if you really look at them.

Elliot

[Soldout]

First of all, do you actually read and speak Hebrew? I do. So if you are going to state that something is a "strait translation from the hebrew text" you should be sure that it is true first.

Second, exactly when has Jesus' dominion been "from sea to sea"? Exactly when has he had dominion over anything? Twice so far, according to Christian scripture, Jesus lived without ever becoming a king or having anything remotely like dominion over the land.

Nor was Jesus able to speak "peace to the nations"... as far as I can tell the only nations he spoke to in the Christian scripture were Israel and the Romans, and neither one was exactly in a listening mood when he spoke peace. He certainly didn't manage to speak peace to any other nations. The "battle bow" was never cut off. And he never acheived any sort of peace.

So exactly what part of this prophesy came true, Soldout?

I can do the same excersize with each of your citations, if you'd like. But the bottom line is that Jesus really doesn't fulfill any Messianic prophesies. Not if you really look at them.

Elliot

My pastor is actauly Jewish and he speaks Hebrew so I know that is the correct translation. Jesus did speak to the nations. Today Christianity is the largest religion in the world and it is also the fastests Growing. That verse was not literally saying that he will go about speaking to each nation personaly about Peace. His followers have been mandated to go a spread the gospel of peace to all people of all nations. Jesus did have dominion, even though he was not an earthly king, while he was here physically he had dominion over the wind the sea over demons and he still does.

Its funny how you are all focusing on this one verse. What about the other 300 or even the few I have posted previously. How do you explain the prophesies of the death barial and reserection. I just think it would be a real big coincidence that all 300+ prophesies have been slightly miss translated.

[BABRAM]

My pastor is actauly Jewish and he speaks Hebrew so i know that is the correct translation

So that makes it correct? You say it's straight (or suggest accurate) from the Hebrew, but really don't know and now consider your pastor correct because he is Jewish. Well! So am I, and approximately fifteen million others. No offence personally, but perhaps he's not as literate in Hebrew as you think. Besides he didn't translate your quote of verses. You used an Open Bible, probably New King James, and also an Amplified version. Those are Christian translations. How do I know? From your earlier post.

Jesus did speak to the nations.

Blah blah blah... well instead of making bold claims why don't you provide a historic documented example that demonstrates that Jesus traveled speaking to the nations. Later you'll contradict yourself and suggest it was not Jesus personally, but his followers.

Today Christianity is the largest religion in the world and it is also the fastests Growing.

So! And your point is? Islams probably the second largest growing religion, but that doesn't mean I'm jumping off the bridge. Whoop-tee-do! Honor students are at the top of the class, not in the majority. Now to that which is relevant: when did Jesus extend his rule over the Earth? Certainly not in Paul's lifetime as he expected, BTW postdating the historic Jesus.

That verse was not literaly saying that he will go about speaking to each nation personaly about Peace. His followers have been mandated to go a spread the gospel of peace to all people of all nations. Jesus did have dominion, even though he was not an earthly king, while he was here physically he had dominion over the wind the sea over demons and he still does.

How convenient! The old 'it's not saying what's it saying' fiasco. Zech 9:10 does speak of "He," not you, we, or us. It's physical and that how chariots get banished. How in the name of good sense did your Hebrew speaking pastor ever miss that one?

Its funny how you are all focussing on this one verse. what about the other 300 or even the few i have posted previously. How do you explain the prophesies of the death barial and reserection. I just think it would be a real big coincidence that all 300+ prophesies have been slightly miss translated.

Why not blame yourself! All I did was take the first verse you listed. ETW just further used this particular scripture as topic since you decided to go off topic and not answer the original posted question. Imagine if your first one is WRONG, and it is, how many more to follow are also misconstrued works of missionary ignorance. Sad, not funny.


Bobby

[rosends]

Just a side note -- the Zech verses posted are actually not a direct translation, but a simplified interpretation to remove things that, without rabbinic commentary, wouldn't make sense (and if you don't believe that, ask any "Jewish pastor" why there is a vav in front of the words "al-ayir").

What is important about establishing context is the idea that verses 9 and 10 come after 1-8 and speak about a string of events. To claim that a prophecy is fulfilled because of a phrase in verse 9 is disingenuous at best; many people might have ridden a donkey. So what? Unless this follow the appropriate earthquake and regime changes and exiles of the nations, and is followed by a clear worldwide dominion -- directly followed, as there is no mention of any pause between verses, then claiming support for Christian history is specious.

[Soldout]

Over 300 Messianic Prophecies


Gen. 3:15... He will bruise Satan's head... Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18
Gen. 9:26,27... The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem... Lu. 3:36
Gen. 12:3... As Abraham's seed,will bless all nations... Acts. 3:25,26
Gen. 12:7... The Promise made to Abraham's Seed... Gal. 3:16
Gen. 14:18... A priest after Melchizedek... Heb. 6:20
Gen. 14:18... A King also... Heb. 7:2
Gen. 14:18... The Last Supper foreshadowed... Mt. 26:26-29
Gen. 17:19... The Seed of Isaac... Rom. 9:7
Gen. 22:8... The Lamb of God promised... Jn. 1:29
Gen. 22:18... As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations... Gal. 3:16
Gen.26:2-5.. The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer.. Heb.11:18
Gen. 49:10... The time of His coming... Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10... The Seed of Judah... Lu. 3:33
Gen. 49:10... Called Shiloh or One Sent... Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10... To come before Judah lost identity... Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10... To Him shall the obedience of the people be... Jn. 10:16
Ex. 3:13,14... The Great "I Am"... Jn. 4:26
Ex. 12:5... A Lamb without blemish... 1 Pet. 1:19
Ex. 12:13... The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath... Rom. 5:8
Ex. 12:21-27... Christ is our Passover... 1 Cor. 5;7
Ex. 12:46... Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken... Jn. 19:31-36
Ex. 15:2... His exaltation predicted as Yeshua... Acts 7:55,56
Ex. 15:11... His Character-Holiness... Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
Ex. 17:6... The Spiritual Rock of Israel... 1 Cor. 10;4
Ex. 33:19... His Character-Merciful... Lu. 1:72
Lev.14:11.. The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood.. Lu.5:12-14; Acts 6:7
Lev.16:15-17... Prefigures Christ's once-for-all death... Heb. 9:7-14
Lev.16:27... Suffering outside the Camp... Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11, 12
Lev.17:11... The Blood-the life of the flesh... Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45
Lev.17:11... It is the blood that makes atonement... 1 Jn. 3:14-18
Lev.23:36-37... The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst.".. Jn. 19:31-36
Num. 9:12... Not a bone of Him broken... John 19:31-36
Num. 21:9... The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted... Jn. 3:14-18
Num. 24:17... Time: "I shall see him, but not now."... Gal. 4:4
Deut. 18:15... "This is of a truth that prophet."... Jn. 6:14
Deut. 18:15-16... "Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe me."... Jn. 5:45-47
Deut. 18:18... Sent by the Father to speak His word... Jn. 8:28, 29
Deut. 18:19... Whoever will not hear must bear his sin... Jn. 12:15,
Deut. 21:23... Cursed is he that hangs on a tree... Gal. 3:10-13
Ruth 4:4-9... Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us... Eph. 1:3-7
1 Sam. 2:10... Shall be an anointed King to the Lord... Mt. 28:18; Jn. 12:15
2 Sam. 7:12... David's Seed... Mt. 1:1
2 Sam. 7:14a... The Son of God... Lu. 1:32
2 Sam. 7:16... David's house established forever... Lu. 3:31; Rev. 22:16
2 Ki. 2:11... The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated... Lu. 24:51
1 Chr. 17:11... David's Seed... Mt. 1:1; 9:27
1 Chr. 17:12, 13a... To reign on David's throne forever... Lu. 1:32, 33
1 Chr. 17:13a... "I will be His Father, He...my Son."... Heb. 1:5
Job 19:23-27... The Resurrection predicted... Jn. 5:24-29
Psa. 2:1-3... The enmity of kings foreordained... Acts 4:25-28
Psa. 2:2... To own the title, Anointed (Christ)... Acts 2:36
Ps. 2:6... His Character-Holiness... Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7
Ps. 2:6... To own the title King... Mt. 2:2
Ps. 2:7... Declared the Beloved Son... Mt. 3;17
Psa. 2:7, 8... The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated... Acts 13:29-33
Psa. 2:12... Life comes through faith in Him... Jn. 20:31
Psa. 8:2... The mouths of babes perfect His praise... Mt. 21:16
Psa. 8:5, 6... His humiliation and exaltation... Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor. 15:27
Psa. 16:10... Was not to see corruption... Acts 2:31
Psa. 16:9-11... Was to arise from the dead... Jn. 20:9
Psa. 17;15... The resurrection predicted... Lu. 24:6
Psa. 22:1... Forsaken because of sins of others... 2 Cor. 5:21
Psa. 22:1... Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mk. 15:34
Psa. 22:2... Darkness upon Calvary... Mt. 27:45
Psa. 22:7... They shoot out the lip and shake the head... Mt. 27:39
Psa. 22:8.. "He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him"... Mt. 27:43
Psa. 22:9... Born the Saviour... Lu. 2:7
Psa. 22:14... Died of a broken (ruptured)heart... Jn. 19:34
Psa. 22:14,15... Suffered agony on Calvary... Mk. 15:34-37
Psa. 22:15... He thirsted... Jn. 19:28
Psa. 22:16... They pierced His hands and His feet... Jn. 19:34,37;20:27

[Soldout]

Psa. 22:17,18... Stripped Him before the stares of men... Lu. 23:34,35
Psa. 22:18... They parted His garments... Jn. 19:23,24
Psa. 22:20,21... He committed Himself to God... Lu.23:46
Psa. 22:20,21.. Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's heel.. Heb. 2:14
Psa. 22:22... His Resurrection declared... Jn. 20:17
Psa. 22:27... He shall be the governor of the nations... Col 1:16
Psa. 22:31... "It is finished"... Jn. 19:30
Psa. 23:1... "I am the Good Shephard"... Jn. 10:11
Psa. 24:3... His exaltation predicted... Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9
Psa. 30:3... His resurrection predicted... Acts 2:32
Psa. 31:5... "Into thy hands I commit my spirit"... Lu. 23:46
Psa. 31:11... His acquaintances fled from Him... Mk. 14:50
Psa. 31:13... They took counsel to put Him to death... Jn. 11:53
Psa. 31:14,15... " He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"... Mt. 27:43
Psa. 34:20... Not a bone of Him broken... Jn 19:31-36
Psa. 35:11... False witnesses rose up against Him... Mt. 26:59
Psa. 35:19... He was hated without a cause... Jn. 15:25
Psa. 38:11... His friends stood afar off... Lu. 23:49
Psa. 40:2-5... The joy of His resurrection predicted... Jn. 20:20
Psa. 40:6-8... His delight-the will of the Father... Jn. 4:34
Psa. 40:9... He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel... Mt. 4:17
Psa. 40:14... Confronted by adversaries in the Garden... Jn. 18:4-6
Psa. 41:9... Betrayed by a familiar friend... Jn. 13:18
Psa. 45:2... Words of Grace come from His lips... Lu. 4:22
Psa. 45:6... To own the title, God or Elohim... Heb. 1:8
Psa. 45:7... A special anointing by the Holy Spirit... Mt.3:16; Heb.1:9
Psa. 45:7,8... Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)... Lu. 2:11
Psa. 55:12-14... Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy... Jn. 13:18
Psa. 55:15... Unrepentant death of the Betrayer... Mt. 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
Psa. 68:18... To give gifts to men... Eph. 4:7-16
Psa. 68:18... Ascended into Heaven... Lu. 24:51
Psa. 69:4... Hated without a cause... Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8... A stranger to own brethren... Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9... Zealous for the Lord's House... Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20... Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion... Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20... "My soul is exceeding sorrowful."... Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21... Given vinegar in thirst... Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26... The Saviour given and smitten by God... Jn. 17:4; 18:11
Psa. 72:10,11... Great persons were to visit Him... Mt. 2:1-11
Psa. 72:16... The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground... Jn. 12:24
Psa. 72:17... His name, Yinon, will produce offspring... Jn. 1:12,13
Psa. 72:17... All nations shall be blessed by Him... Acts 2:11,12,41
Psa. 78:1.2... He would teach in parables... Mt. 13:34-35
Psa. 78:2b... To speak the Wisdom of God with authority... Mt. 7:29
Psa. 88:8... They stood afar off and watched... Lu. 23:49
Psa. 89:27... Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings... Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:35-37... David's Seed, throne, kingdom endure forever... Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:36-37... His character-Faithfulness... Rev. 1:5
Psa. 90:2... He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)... Jn. 1:1
Psa. 91:11,12... Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ... Lu. 4;10,11
Psa. 97:9... His exaltation predicted... Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20
Psa. 100:5... His character-Goodness... Mt. 19:16,17
Psa. 102:1-11... The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary... Jn. 21:16-30
Psa. 102:25-27... Messiah is the Preexistent Son... Heb. 1:10-12
Psa. 109:25... Ridiculed... Mt. 27:39
Psa. 110:1... Son of David... Mt. 22:43
Psa. 110:1... To ascend to the right-hand of the Father... Mk.16:19
Psa. 110:1... David's son called Lord... Mt. 22:44,45
Psa. 110:4... A priest after Melchizedek's order... Heb. 6:20
Psa. 112:4... His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt. 9;36
Psa. 118:17,18... Messiah's Resurrection assured... Lu. 24:5-7;1 Cor. 15:20
Psa. 118:22,23... The rejected stone is Head of the corner... Mt. 21:42,43
Psa. 118:26a... The Blessed One presented to Israel... Mt. 21:9
Psa. 118:26b... To come while Temple standing... Mt. 21;12-15

[Soldout]

Psa. 22:17,18... Stripped Him before the stares of men... Lu. 23:34,35
Psa. 22:18... They parted His garments... Jn. 19:23,24
Psa. 22:20,21... He committed Himself to God... Lu.23:46
Psa. 22:20,21.. Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's heel.. Heb. 2:14
Psa. 22:22... His Resurrection declared... Jn. 20:17
Psa. 22:27... He shall be the governor of the nations... Col 1:16
Psa. 22:31... "It is finished"... Jn. 19:30
Psa. 23:1... "I am the Good Shephard"... Jn. 10:11
Psa. 24:3... His exaltation predicted... Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9
Psa. 30:3... His resurrection predicted... Acts 2:32
Psa. 31:5... "Into thy hands I commit my spirit"... Lu. 23:46
Psa. 31:11... His acquaintances fled from Him... Mk. 14:50
Psa. 31:13... They took counsel to put Him to death... Jn. 11:53
Psa. 31:14,15... " He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"... Mt. 27:43
Psa. 34:20... Not a bone of Him broken... Jn 19:31-36
Psa. 35:11... False witnesses rose up against Him... Mt. 26:59
Psa. 35:19... He was hated without a cause... Jn. 15:25
Psa. 38:11... His friends stood afar off... Lu. 23:49
Psa. 40:2-5... The joy of His resurrection predicted... Jn. 20:20
Psa. 40:6-8... His delight-the will of the Father... Jn. 4:34
Psa. 40:9... He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel... Mt. 4:17
Psa. 40:14... Confronted by adversaries in the Garden... Jn. 18:4-6
Psa. 41:9... Betrayed by a familiar friend... Jn. 13:18
Psa. 45:2... Words of Grace come from His lips... Lu. 4:22
Psa. 45:6... To own the title, God or Elohim... Heb. 1:8
Psa. 45:7... A special anointing by the Holy Spirit... Mt.3:16; Heb.1:9
Psa. 45:7,8... Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)... Lu. 2:11
Psa. 55:12-14... Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy... Jn. 13:18
Psa. 55:15... Unrepentant death of the Betrayer... Mt. 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
Psa. 68:18... To give gifts to men... Eph. 4:7-16
Psa. 68:18... Ascended into Heaven... Lu. 24:51
Psa. 69:4... Hated without a cause... Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8... A stranger to own brethren... Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9... Zealous for the Lord's House... Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20... Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion... Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20... "My soul is exceeding sorrowful."... Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21... Given vinegar in thirst... Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26... The Saviour given and smitten by God... Jn. 17:4; 18:11
Psa. 72:10,11... Great persons were to visit Him... Mt. 2:1-11
Psa. 72:16... The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground... Jn. 12:24
Psa. 72:17... His name, Yinon, will produce offspring... Jn. 1:12,13
Psa. 72:17... All nations shall be blessed by Him... Acts 2:11,12,41
Psa. 78:1.2... He would teach in parables... Mt. 13:34-35
Psa. 78:2b... To speak the Wisdom of God with authority... Mt. 7:29
Psa. 88:8... They stood afar off and watched... Lu. 23:49
Psa. 89:27... Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings... Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:35-37... David's Seed, throne, kingdom endure forever... Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:36-37... His character-Faithfulness... Rev. 1:5
Psa. 90:2... He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)... Jn. 1:1
Psa. 91:11,12... Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ... Lu. 4;10,11
Psa. 97:9... His exaltation predicted... Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20
Psa. 100:5... His character-Goodness... Mt. 19:16,17
Psa. 102:1-11... The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary... Jn. 21:16-30
Psa. 102:25-27... Messiah is the Preexistent Son... Heb. 1:10-12
Psa. 109:25... Ridiculed... Mt. 27:39
Psa. 110:1... Son of David... Mt. 22:43
Psa. 110:1... To ascend to the right-hand of the Father... Mk.16:19
Psa. 110:1... David's son called Lord... Mt. 22:44,45
Psa. 110:4... A priest after Melchizedek's order... Heb. 6:20
Psa. 112:4... His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt. 9;36
Psa. 118:17,18... Messiah's Resurrection assured... Lu. 24:5-7;1 Cor. 15:20
Psa. 118:22,23... The rejected stone is Head of the corner... Mt. 21:42,43
Psa. 118:26a... The Blessed One presented to Israel... Mt. 21:9
Psa. 118:26b... To come while Temple standing... Mt. 21;12-15

[Soldout]

Psa. 132:11... The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)... Lu. 1:32
Psa. 138:1-6... The supremacy of David's Seed amazes kings... Mt. 2:2-6
Psa. 147:3,6... The earthly ministry of Christ described... Lu. 4:18
Psa. 1:23... He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7
Song. 5;16... The altogether lovely One... Jn. 1:17
Isa. 6:1... When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41
Isa. 6:9-10... Parables fall on deaf ears... Mt. 13:13-15
Isa. 6:9-12... Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words... Acts. 28:23-29
Isa. 7:14... To be born of a virgin... Lu. 1:35
Isa. 7:14... To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23
Isa. 8:8... Called Emmanuel... Mt. 28:20
Isa. 8:14... A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8
Isa. 9:1,2... His ministry to begin in Galilee... Mt. 4:12-17
Isa. 9:6... A child born-Humanity... Lu. 1:31
Isa. 9:6... A Son given-Deity... Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16
Isa. 9:6... Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4
Isa. 9:6... The Wonderful One, Peleh... Lu. 4:22
Isa. 9:6... The Counsellor, Yaatz... Mt. 13:54
Isa. 9:6... The Mighty God, El Gibor... Mt. 11:20
Isa. 9:6... The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth... Jn. 8:58
Isa. 9:6... The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom... Jn . 16:33
Isa. 9:7... To establish an everlasting kingdom... Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 9:7... His Character-Just... Jn. 5:30
Isa. 9:7... No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace... Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 11:1... Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer... Mt. 2:23
Isa. 11:1... A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse... Lu. 3:23,32
Isa. 11:2... The anointed One by the Spirit... Mt. 3;16,17
Isa. 11:2... His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al... Jn. 4:4-26
Isa. 11:4... His Character-Truth... Jn. 14:6
Isa. 11:10... The Gentiles seek Him... Jn. 12:18-21
Isa. 12:2... Called Jesus-Yeshua... Mt. 1:21
Isa. 25:8... The Resurrection predicted... I Cor. 15:54
Isa. 26:19... His power of Resurrection predicted... Jn. 11:43,44
Isa. 28:16... The Messiah is the precious corner stone... Acts 4:11,12
Isa. 29:13... He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word... Mt. 15:7-9
Isa. 29:14... The wise are confounded by the Word... I Cor. 1:18-31
Isa. 32:2... A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place... Mt. 23:37
Isa. 35:4... He will come and save you... Mt. 1:21
Isa. 35:5... To have a ministry of miracles... Mt. 11:4-6
Isa. 40:3,4... Preceded by forerunner... Jn. 1:23
Isa. 40:9... "Behold your God."... Jn. 1:36;19:14
Isa. 40:11... A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver... Jn. 10:10-18
Isa. 42:1-4... The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer... Mt.12:18-21
Isa. 42:2... Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30
Isa. 42:3... He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4
Isa. 42:4... The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26
Isa. 42:6... The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles... Lu. 2:32
Isa. 42:1,6... His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20
Isa. 42:7... Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38
Isa. 43:11... He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12
Isa. 44:3... He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13
Isa. 45:23... He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11
Isa. 48:12... The First and the Last... Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17
Isa. 48:17... He came as a Teacher... Jn. 3:2
Isa. 49:1... Called from the womb-His humanity... Mt. 1:18
Isa. 49:5... A Servant from the womb... Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7
Isa. 49:6... He is Salvation for Israel... Lu. 2:29-32
Isa. 49:6... He is the Light of the Gentiles... Acts 13:47
Isa. 49:6... He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-18
Isa. 49:7... He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49
Isa. 50:3... Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu. 23:44,45
Isa. 50:4... He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29
Isa. 50:5... The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39
Isa. 50:6a... "I gave my back to the smiters."... Mt. 27:26
Isa. 50:6b... He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67
Isa. 50:6c... He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30
Isa. 52:7... To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15
Isa. 52:13... The Servant exalted... Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22
Isa. 52:13... Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8
Isa. 52:14... The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt. 26:67,68
Isa. 52:15... Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom. 15:18-21
Isa. 52:15... His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5
Isa. 53:1... His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38
Isa. 53:2a... He would grow up in a poor family... Lu. 2:7
Isa. 53:2b... Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8
Isa. 53:3a... Despised... Lu. 4:28-29

[Soldout]

Psa. 132:11... The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)... Lu. 1:32
Psa. 138:1-6... The supremacy of David's Seed amazes kings... Mt. 2:2-6
Psa. 147:3,6... The earthly ministry of Christ described... Lu. 4:18
Psa. 1:23... He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7
Song. 5;16... The altogether lovely One... Jn. 1:17
Isa. 6:1... When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41
Isa. 6:9-10... Parables fall on deaf ears... Mt. 13:13-15
Isa. 6:9-12... Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words... Acts. 28:23-29
Isa. 7:14... To be born of a virgin... Lu. 1:35
Isa. 7:14... To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23
Isa. 8:8... Called Emmanuel... Mt. 28:20
Isa. 8:14... A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8
Isa. 9:1,2... His ministry to begin in Galilee... Mt. 4:12-17
Isa. 9:6... A child born-Humanity... Lu. 1:31
Isa. 9:6... A Son given-Deity... Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16
Isa. 9:6... Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4
Isa. 9:6... The Wonderful One, Peleh... Lu. 4:22
Isa. 9:6... The Counsellor, Yaatz... Mt. 13:54
Isa. 9:6... The Mighty God, El Gibor... Mt. 11:20
Isa. 9:6... The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth... Jn. 8:58
Isa. 9:6... The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom... Jn . 16:33
Isa. 9:7... To establish an everlasting kingdom... Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 9:7... His Character-Just... Jn. 5:30
Isa. 9:7... No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace... Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 11:1... Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer... Mt. 2:23
Isa. 11:1... A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse... Lu. 3:23,32
Isa. 11:2... The anointed One by the Spirit... Mt. 3;16,17
Isa. 11:2... His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al... Jn. 4:4-26
Isa. 11:4... His Character-Truth... Jn. 14:6
Isa. 11:10... The Gentiles seek Him... Jn. 12:18-21
Isa. 12:2... Called Jesus-Yeshua... Mt. 1:21
Isa. 25:8... The Resurrection predicted... I Cor. 15:54
Isa. 26:19... His power of Resurrection predicted... Jn. 11:43,44
Isa. 28:16... The Messiah is the precious corner stone... Acts 4:11,12
Isa. 29:13... He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word... Mt. 15:7-9
Isa. 29:14... The wise are confounded by the Word... I Cor. 1:18-31
Isa. 32:2... A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place... Mt. 23:37
Isa. 35:4... He will come and save you... Mt. 1:21
Isa. 35:5... To have a ministry of miracles... Mt. 11:4-6
Isa. 40:3,4... Preceded by forerunner... Jn. 1:23
Isa. 40:9... "Behold your God."... Jn. 1:36;19:14
Isa. 40:11... A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver... Jn. 10:10-18
Isa. 42:1-4... The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer... Mt.12:18-21
Isa. 42:2... Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30
Isa. 42:3... He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4
Isa. 42:4... The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26
Isa. 42:6... The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles... Lu. 2:32
Isa. 42:1,6... His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20
Isa. 42:7... Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38
Isa. 43:11... He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12
Isa. 44:3... He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13
Isa. 45:23... He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11
Isa. 48:12... The First and the Last... Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17
Isa. 48:17... He came as a Teacher... Jn. 3:2
Isa. 49:1... Called from the womb-His humanity... Mt. 1:18
Isa. 49:5... A Servant from the womb... Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7
Isa. 49:6... He is Salvation for Israel... Lu. 2:29-32
Isa. 49:6... He is the Light of the Gentiles... Acts 13:47
Isa. 49:6... He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-18
Isa. 49:7... He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49
Isa. 50:3... Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu. 23:44,45
Isa. 50:4... He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29
Isa. 50:5... The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39
Isa. 50:6a... "I gave my back to the smiters."... Mt. 27:26
Isa. 50:6b... He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67
Isa. 50:6c... He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30
Isa. 52:7... To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15
Isa. 52:13... The Servant exalted... Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22
Isa. 52:13... Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8
Isa. 52:14... The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt. 26:67,68
Isa. 52:15... Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom. 15:18-21
Isa. 52:15... His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5
Isa. 53:1... His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38
Isa. 53:2a... He would grow up in a poor family... Lu. 2:7
Isa. 53:2b... Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8
Isa. 53:3a... Despised... Lu. 4:28-29

[Soldout]

Fulfilled Prophecy Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture New Testament
His pre-existence Micah 5:2 John 1:1, 14
Born of the seed of a woman Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:18
Of the seed of Abraham Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1-16
All nations blessed by Abraham's seed Genesis 12:3 Matthew 8:5, 10
God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering Genesis 22:8 John 1:29
From the tribe of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:1-3
Heir to the throne of David Isaiah 9:6-7 Matthew 1:1
Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" Isaiah 9:6 Matthew 1:23
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18
His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
Declared to be the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17
His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah Malachi 4:5-6 Luke 1:17
Preceded by a messenger to prepare His way Malachi 3:1 Matthew 11:7-11
Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:3
Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel Deuteronomy 18:15 Matthew 2:15
Called out of Egypt Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:15
Slaughter of the children Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew2:18

[Soldout]

I suppose ALL these profecies are just miss translated. Hmmm.. How convenient for your argument. Even if they were miss translated what are the chances that someone would even vagely live up to all these prophesies? Jesus is Christ and I am sure when he returns for the second time and fulfills the other second coming prophesies of earthly rule, you will all finally get with program.

[ETWolverine]

My pastor is actauly Jewish and he speaks Hebrew so I know that is the correct translation.

But you don't, and therefore have to take his word for it.

As one who does speak and read the language, I can say quite emphatically that his translations are somewhat lacking in both accuracy and context.

Jesus did speak to the nations.

Which ones. What did he tell them? Why is it not recorded in the New testament?

Today Christianity is the largest religion in the world and it is also the fastests Growing.

Both of these are incorrect "facts". Islam is the religion with the largest population, having over 1 billion just in India and Pakistan alone. It is also the fastest growing religion in the world. Christianity is actually the SECOND largest religion in the world and is losing ground to Islam.

That verse was not literally saying that he will go about speaking to each nation personaly about Peace. His followers have been mandated to go a spread the gospel of peace to all people of all nations. Jesus did have dominion, even though he was not an earthly king, while he was here physically he had dominion over the wind the sea over demons and he still does.

So the scripture is not to be taken literally.

Well, if that's the case, then I can make it mean anything I want it to because it isn't literal. Maybe Jesus didn't literally rise from the dead after 3 days? Maybe he didn't literally heal anyone. Maybe he didn't literally walk on water? Maybe nothing listed as having been done by Jesus actually happened in the literal sense. Maybe all of it was figurative.

We in Judaism believe that when the Torah says something is going to happen, it is to be taken literally. If it says the Messiah will speak to all the nations about peace, then we can take it literally to mean exactly that.

Its funny how you are all focusing on this one verse. What about the other 300 or even the few I have posted previously. How do you explain the prophesies of the death barial and reserection. I just think it would be a real big coincidence that all 300+ prophesies have been slightly miss translated.

Hey, if that's what you want, I can go through your list one by one. I made that offer the other day. If you are taking me up on that offer, I'll happily oblige. I'll start later today.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

I suppose ALL these profecies are just miss translated. Hmmm.. How convenient for your argument.

Nope. Just most of them. The others were taken out of context.

Even if they were miss translated what are the chances that someone would even vagely live up to all these prophesies?

That's kind of the point, isn't it. Only one person can live up to all of the Messianic prophesies in a literal sense, and that is the Messiah. The fact that Jesus didn't live up to those standards in a literal sense just proves our point... that Jesus wasn't the Messiah.

Jesus is Christ and I am sure when he returns for the second time and fulfills the other second coming prophesies of earthly rule, you will all finally get with program.

Actually, that would be the THIRD coming, wouldn't it?

Elliot

[Soldout]

Go for it! I would like to here how you are going to conviniently twist 300 prophesies to suit your argument. It will be interesting to see how you will discount the prophesies of his crusifition death reserection rejection.
Your Rejection of Jesus was also prohesied so you are only comfieming the prophesies by rejecting Him
Isaiah 53:3 - He would be despised, rejected, and not esteemed by His people. [49:7]

Psalm 22:6-8 - He would be reproached, despised, mocked [cf. Matt. 27:41-43].

Psalm 118:22,23 - He is compared to God's chief cornerstone, yet the builders would reject Him. This was fulfilled when the Jews rejected Jesus (Acts 4:11). [Matt. 21:42; Mark 12:10f; Luke 20:17; 1 Peter 2:7]

"Both of these are incorrect "facts". Islam is the religion with the largest population, having over 1 billion just in India and Pakistan alone. It is also the fastest growing religion in the world. Christianity is actually the SECOND largest religion in the world and is losing ground to Islam."

You need to do your research before you make such statements 1in 3 people are christians. Islams is only fast growing by the number of births into the religion, but Christianity is the Fastest growing by the number of converts. Click on this link
And see.. Major Religions Ranked by Size

[Soldout]

It is puzzling to consider why some Jews do not recognize Jesus as the long promised and awaited Messiah, with so many prophecies of the Scriptures fulfilled to the letter in Jesus of Nazareth...

... One reason I guess is that the Scriptures make 300 prophecies of the "First Coming of the Messiah", as the suffering servant of Is.53, but make 500 prophecies about the "Second Coming of the Messiah", the triumphal King of Zach.14... to the point that some rabbis talk about two Messiah, and for most Jews, the "triumphant one" is the Messiah they were expecting...

[ETWolverine]

Gen. 3:15... He will bruise Satan's head... Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18

Gen 3:14 God said to the serpent, 'Because you did this, cursed are you more than all the livestock and all the wild beasts. On your belly you shall crawl, and dust you shall eat, all the days of your life. 3:15 I will plant hatred between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike you in the head, and you will strike him in the heel.'

What does this have to do with striking Satan in the head? This is talking about the offspring of the snake and the offspring of Eve. It has nothing to do with Satan. You are mistranslating the word "nachash" which means "serpent", as "Satan".

Gen. 9:26,27... The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem... Lu. 3:36

Gen 9:24Noah awoke from his wine-induced sleep, and he realized what his youngest son had done to him. 9:25 He said, 'Cursed is Canaan! He shall be a slave's slave to his brothers!' 9:26 He then said, 'Blessed be God, the Lord of Shem! Canaan shall be his slave! 9:27May God expand Yefeth, but may He dwell in the tents of Shem. Let Canaan be their slave!'

This is a curse by Noah against Canaan. It has nothing to do with Jesus. It isn't a prediction, it is a curse. And it has nothing to do with the offspring of Shem being a god or a messianic figure. I can't tell what you have mistranslated here, but a close look at the context of the verses makes it clear that it has nothing to do with Messianic prophesy.

Gen. 12:3... As Abraham's seed,will bless all nations... Acts. 3:25,26

Gen 12:1 God said to Abram, 'Go away from your land, from your birthplace, and from your father's house, to the land that I will show you. 12:2 I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you great. You shall become a blessing. 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and he who curses you, I will curse. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.'

Again, a close look at the text makes it clear that this has nothing to do with Messianic prophesy. It is a blessing to Abram for following G-d commandment to leave the land of his birth. It is a blessing for offspring that will be a blessing to the world... the Jewish people as a whole.

The proof that this is not a reference to Jesus is that Jesus never cursed anyone that cursed him. In fact, he specifically told people to turn the other cheek when someone offends against them.

Gen. 12:7... The Promise made to Abraham's Seed... Gal. 3:16

Gen 12:7 God appeared to Abram and said, 'I will give this land to your off-spring.' [Abram] built an altar there to God who had appeared to him.

G-d promissed to give the land to Abram's offspring. This is, if anything, a proof that the land of Israel (including the West Bank in which Shechem is located) belongs to the Jews, not the Arabs. It has nothing to do with Messianic prophesy. It is a prophesy regarding ownership of the Land of Israel.

Gen. 14:18... A priest after Melchizedek... Heb. 6:20
Gen. 14:18... A King also... Heb. 7:2
Gen. 14:18... The Last Supper foreshadowed... Mt. 26:26-29

Gen 14:17 After he [Abram] returned from his victory over Chedorlaomer and his allied kings, the king of Sodom came out to greet him in Level Valley (now King's Valley).
14:18 Malkhi-tzedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine. He was a priest to God, the Most High.
14:19 He blessed [Abram], and said, 'Blessed be Abram to God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth.
14:20 And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.' [Abram then] gave him a tenth of everything.
14:21 The king of Sodom said to Abram, 'Give me the people. You can keep the goods.'
14:22 Abram replied to the king of Sodom, 'I have lifted my hand [in an oath] to God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth!
14:23 Not a thread nor a shoelace! I will not take anything that is yours! You should not be able to say, 'It was I who made Abram rich.'
14:24 The only exception is what the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men who went with me, Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them take their share.'

I see nothing here that refers to a priest after Makhi-Tzedek. This is not a prophesy at all, but rather an historical account of the aftermath of a war. It mentions kings, but it is the actual King od Sodom and the actual King of Salem, not some future king. Moreover, it mentions multiple kings, not one. Is there more than one Messiah? Your interpretation of this as referring to Messianic prophesy doesn't make any sense.

Gen. 17:19... The Seed of Isaac... Rom. 9:7

Gen 17:15 God said to Abraham, 'Sarai your wife - do not call her by the name Sarai, for Sarah is her name.
17:16 I will bless her, and make her bear you a son. I will bless her so that she will be [the mother] of entire nations - kings will be her descendants.'
17:17 Abraham fell on his face and he laughed. He said to himself, 'Can a hundred-year-old man have children? Can Sarah, who is ninety, give birth?'
17:18 To God, Abraham said, 'May it be granted that Ishmael live before you!'
17:19 God said, 'Still, your wife Sarah will give birth to a son. You must name him Isaac. I will keep My covenant with him as an eternal treaty, for his descendants after him.

This is talking about a prophesy of the birth of Isaac, and the promise to the descendants of Isaac. Where is there any specific reference to Jesus, who was only one of many Jews that decended from Isaac?

Gen. 22:8... The Lamb of God promised... Jn. 1:29
Gen. 22:18... As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations... Gal. 3:16

Gen 22:1 After these events, God tested Abraham.
'Abraham!' He said. 'Yes.'
22:2 'Take your son, the only one you love - Isaac - and go away to the Moriah area. Bring him as an all-burned offering on one of the mountains that I will designate to you.'
22:3 Abraham got up early in the morning and saddled his donkey. He took his two men with him, along with his son Isaac. He cut wood for the offering, and set out, heading for the place that God had designated.
22:4 On the third day, Abraham looked up, and saw the place from afar.
22:5 Abraham said to his young men, 'Stay here with the donkey. The boy and I will go to that place. We will worship and then return to you.'
22:6 Abraham took the offering wood and placed it on [the shoulders of] his son Isaac. He himself took the fire and the slaughter knife, and the two of them went together.
22:7 Isaac spoke up to Abraham.
'Father.' 'Yes, my son.' 'Here is the fire and the wood. But where is the lamb for the offering?'
22:8 'God will see to a lamb for an offering, my son,' replied Abraham. The two of them continued together.
22:9 When they finally came to the place designated by God, Abraham built the altar there, and arranged the wood. He then bound his son Isaac, and placed him on the altar on top of the wood.
22:10 Abraham reached out and took the slaughter knife to slit his son's throat.
22:11 God's angel called to him from heaven and said, 'Abraham! Abraham!' 'Yes.'
22:12 'Do not harm the boy. Do not do anything to him. For now I know that you fear God. You have not withheld your only son from Him.'
22:13 Abraham then looked up and saw a ram caught by its horns in a thicket. He went and got the ram, sacrificing it as an all-burned offering in his son's place.
22:14 Abraham named the place 'God will See' (Adonoy Yir'eh). Today, it is therefore said, 'On God's Mountain, He will be seen.'
22:15 God's angel called to Abraham from heaven a second time,
22:16 and said, 'God declares, 'I have sworn by My own Essence, that because you performed this act, and did not hold back your only son,
22:17 I will bless you greatly, and increase your offspring like the stars of the sky and the sand on the seashore. Your offspring shall inherit their enemies' gate.
22:18 All the nations of the world shall be blessed through your descendants - all because you obeyed My voice.' '
22:19 Abraham returned to his young men, and together they set out and went to Beer-sheba. Abraham remained in Beer-sheba.

Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding of context here. Abraham told Isaac that G-d would provide a lamb for the sacrifice that they were about to perform at that time. And G-d provided them with a ram for that purpose. What does this have to do with some future "lamb" named Jesus who was not sacrificed by any method of sacrifice listed in the Bible, but rather crucified?


Gen.26:2-5.. The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer.. Heb.11:18

Gen 26:2 God appeared to [Isaac] and said, 'Do not go down to Egypt. Remain undisturbed in the land that I shall designate to you.
26:3 Remain an immigrant in this land. I will be with you and bless you, since it will be to you and your offspring that I will give all these lands. I will thus keep the oath that I made to your father Abraham.
26:4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars of the sky, and grant them all these lands. All the nations on earth shall be blessed through your descendants.
26:5 All this is because Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My decrees, and My laws.'

I see nothing here about a "redeemer" of any kind. This is a blessing for a great nation. It refers to NUMEROUS offspring. Again, is there more than one Messiah, because if this section is a messianic prophesy, it must be for MANY messiahs... the many offspring of Isaac?


This is getting a bit long, so I will continue in the next post...

[ETWolverine]

Gen. 49:10... The time of His coming... Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10... The Seed of Judah... Lu. 3:33
Gen. 49:10... Called Shiloh or One Sent... Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10... To come before Judah lost identity... Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10... To Him shall the obedience of the people be... Jn. 10:16

49:1Jacob called for his sons. [When they came,] he said, 'Come together, and I will tell you what will happen in the course of time. 49:2 Come and listen, sons of Jacob; listen to your father Israel. 49:3 'Reuben, you are my firstborn, my strength and the beginning of my manhood, first in rank and first in power. 49:4 [But because you were] unstable as water, you will no longer be first. This is because you moved your father's beds, committing a profane act. He moved my bed!

49:5'Simeon and Levi are a pair; instruments of crime are their wares. 49:6 Let my soul not enter their plot; let my spirit not unite with their meeting - for they have killed men with anger, maimed bulls with will. 49:7 Cursed be their rage, for it is fierce, and their fury, for it is cruel. I will disperse them in Jacob, scatter them in Israel.

49:8 'Judah, your brothers shall submit to you. Your hand shall be on your enemies' necks; your father's sons shall bow to you. 49:9 'Young lion, Judah, you have risen from prey, my son. He crouches, lies like a lion, like an awesome lion, who will dare rouse him?
49:10 'The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor legislation from his descendants. Nations will submit to him until the final tranquility comes. 49:11 He loads down his donkey with a [single] grapevine, his young donkey with a single vine branch. He even washes his clothes in wine, his cloak in the blood of grapes. 49:12But his eyes are more sparkling than the wine his teeth whiter than milk.

In order to make this work as some sort of Messianic prophesy, you have to ignore the fact that Jacob is blessing all of the brothers, not only Judah. Furthermore, the word "shiloh" doesn't mean "one sent." That would be "Shaluach", not "Shiloh". The two words aren't even related. And finally, in order for any of this to apply to Jesus, Jesus would have to have been decended from Judah from his father's side. Since according to Christian scripture, Jesus was the son of G-d, not the son of Joseph, he could not be a descendant of Judah. For all these reasons, this scripture cannot possibly apply to Jesus.

Ex. 3:13,14... The Great "I Am"... Jn. 4:26

Ex 3:1 Moses tended the sheep of his father-in-law Jethro, sheik of Midian. He led the flock to the edge of the desert, and he came to God's Mountain, in the Horeb area.
3:2 God's angel appeared to [Moses] in the heart of a fire, in the middle of a thorn-bush. As he looked, [Moses] realized that the bush was on fire, but was not being consumed.
3:3 Moses said [to himself], 'I must go over there and investigate this wonderful phenomenon. Why doesn't the bush burn?'
3:4 When God saw that [Moses] was going to investigate, He called to him from the middle of the bush. 'Moses, Moses!' He said. 'Yes,' replied [Moses].
3:5 'Do not come any closer,' said [God]. 'Take your shoes off your feet. The place upon which you are standing is holy ground.'
3:6 [God then] said, 'I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob.' Moses hid his face, since he was afraid to look at the Divine.
3:7 God said, 'I have indeed seen the suffering of My people in Egypt. I have heard how they cry out because of what their slave-drivers [do], and I am aware of their pain.
3:8 I have come down to rescue them from Egypt's power. I will bring them out of that land, to a good, spacious land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, the territory of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Yebusites.
3:9 'Right now the cry of the Israelites is coming to Me. I also see the pressure to which Egypt is subjecting them.
3:10 Now go. I am sending you to Pharaoh. Bring My people, the Israelites, out of Egypt.'
3:11 'Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh?' said Moses to God. 'And how can I possibly get the Israelites out of Egypt?'
3:12 'Because I will be with you,' replied [God]. 'Proof that I have sent you will come when you get the people out of Egypt. All of you will then become God's servants on this mountain.'
3:13 Moses said to God, 'So I will go to the Israelites and say, 'Your fathers' God sent me to you.' They will immediately ask me what His name is. What shall I say to them?'
3:14 'I Will Be Who I Will Be,' replied God to Moses. [God then] explained, 'This is what you must say to the Israelites: 'I Will Be sent me to you.' '
3:15 God then said to Moses, 'You must [then] say to the Israelites, 'YHVH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, sent me to you.' This is My eternal name, and this is how I am to be recalled for all generations.
3:16 'Go, gather the elders of Israel, and say to them, 'YHVH, the God of your fathers, appeared to me - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He said, 'I have granted you special providence regarding what is happening to you in Egypt.
3:17 I declare that I will bring you out of the wretchedness of Egypt, to the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Yebusites - to a land flowing with milk and honey.' '
3:18 'They will take what you say seriously. You and the elders of Israel will then go to the king of Egypt. You must tell him, 'YHVH, God of the Hebrews, revealed Himself to us. Now we request that you allow us to take a three day journey into the desert, to sacrifice to YHVH our God.'
3:19 'I know in advance that the Egyptian king will not allow you to leave unless he is forced to do so.
3:20 I will then display My power and demolish Egypt through all the miraculous deeds that I will perform in their land. Then [Pharaoh] will let you leave.
3:21 'I will give the people status among the Egyptians, and when you all finally leave, you will not go empty-handed.
3:22 Every woman shall borrow articles of silver and gold, as well as clothing, from her neighbor or from the woman living with her. You shall load this on your sons and daughters, and you will thus drain Egypt [of its wealth].'

Sorry, but the fact that Jesus quoted something that G-d said to Moses 1800 years before he was born, in a story told to every Jewish child, does not make Jesus a G-d or a Messiah. The verse here uses the term "I Will Be Who I Will Be" is a name of G-d used to describe him to the Israelites, and there is nothing in this verse that says that such a name will ever be used by someone in the future, much less someone named Jesus.


Continued below

[ETWolverine]

Ex. 12:5... A Lamb without blemish... 1 Pet. 1:19
Ex. 12:13... The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath... Rom. 5:8
Ex. 12:21-27... Christ is our Passover... 1 Cor. 5;7
Ex. 12:46... Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken... Jn. 19:31-36

Ex 12:1 God said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt:
12:2 This month shall be the head month to you. It shall be the first month of the year.
12:3 Speak to the entire community of Israel, saying: On the tenth of this month, every man must take a lamb for each extended family, a lamb for each household.
12:4 If the household is too small for a lamb, then he and a close neighbor can obtain a [lamb together], as long as it is for specifically designated individuals. Individuals shall be designated for a lamb according to how much each one will eat.
12:5 You must have a flawless young animal, a one-year-old male. You can take it from the sheep or from the goats.
12:6 Hold it in safekeeping until the fourteenth day of this month. The entire community of Israel shall then slaughter [their sacrifices] in the afternoon.
12:7 They must take the blood and place it on the two doorposts and on the beam above the door of the houses in which they will eat [the sacrifice].
12:8 Eat the [sacrificial] meat during the night, roasted over fire. Eat it with matzah and bitter herbs.
12:9 Do not eat it raw or cooked in water, but only roasted over fire, including its head, its legs, and its internal organs.
12:10 Do not leave any of it over until morning. Anything that is left over until morning must be burned in fire.
12:11 You must eat it with your waist belted, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand, and you must eat it in haste. It is the Passover (Pesach) offering to God.
12:12 I will pass through Egypt on that night, and I will kill every first-born in Egypt, man and beast. I will perform acts of judgment against all the gods of Egypt. I [alone] am God.
12:13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are staying. I will see the blood and pass you by (pasach). There will not be any deadly plague among you when I strike Egypt.
12:14 This day must be one that you will remember. You must keep it as a festival to God for all generations. It is a law for all time that you must celebrate it.
12:15 Eat matzahs for seven days. By the first day, you must have your homes cleared of all leaven. Whoever eats leaven from the first day until the seventh day will have his soul cut off from Israel.
12:16 The first day shall be a sacred holiday, and the seventh day shall [also] be a sacred holiday. No work may be done on these [days]. The only [work] that you may do is that which is needed so that everyone will be able to eat.
12:17 Be careful regarding the matzahs, for on this very day I will have brought your masses out of Egypt. You must carefully keep this day for all generations; it is a law for all times.
12:18 From the 14th day of the first month in the evening, until the night of the 21st day of the month, you must eat [only] matzahs.
12:19 During [these] seven days, no leaven may be found in your homes. If someone eats anything leavened his soul shall be cut off from the community of Israel. [This is true] whether he is a proselyte or a person born into the nation.
12:20 You must not eat anything leavened. In all the areas where you live, eat matzahs.
12:21 Moses summoned the elders of Israel, and said to them, 'Gather [the people] and get yourselves sheep for your families, so that you will be able to slaughter the Passover sacrifice.
12:22 'You will then have to take a bunch of hyssop and dip it into the blood that [will be placed] in a basin. Touch the beam over the door and the two doorposts with some of the blood in the basin. Not a single one of you may go out the door of his house until morning.
12:23 'God will then pass through to strike Egypt. When he sees the blood over the door and on the two doorposts, God will pass over that door, and not let the force of destruction enter your houses to strike.
12:24 'You must keep this ritual as a law, for you and your children forever.
12:25 When you come to the land that God will give you, as He promised, you must [also] keep this service.
12:26 Your children may [then] ask you, 'What is this service to you?'
12:27 You must answer, 'It is the Passover service to God. He passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt when He struck the Egyptians, sparing our homes.' The people bent their heads and prostrated themselves.
12:28 The Israelites went and did as God had instructed Moses and Aaron. They did it exactly.
12:29 It was midnight. God killed every first-born in Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh, sitting on his throne, to the first-born of the prisoner in the dungeon, as well as every first-born animal.
12:30 Pharaoh stayed up that night, along with all his officials and all the rest of Egypt. There was a great outcry, since there was no house where there were no dead.
12:31 [Pharaoh] sent for Moses and Aaron during the night. 'Get moving!' he said. 'Get out from among my people - you and the Israelites! Go! Worship God just as you demanded!
12:32 Take your sheep and cattle, just as you said! Go! Bless me too!'
12:33 The Egyptians were also urging the people to hurry and leave the land. 'We are all dead men!' they were saying.
12:34 The people took their dough before it could rise. Their leftover dough was wrapped in their robes [and placed] on their shoulders.
12:35 The Israelites [also] did as Moses had said. They requested silver and gold articles and clothing from the Egyptians.
12:36 God made the Egyptians respect the people, and they granted their request. [The Israelites] thus drained Egypt of its wealth.
12:37 The Israelites traveled from Rameses toward Sukkoth. There were about 600,000 adult males on foot, besides the children.
12:38 A great mixture [of nationalities] left with them. There were [also] sheep and cattle, a huge amount of livestock.
12:39 [The Israelites] baked the dough that they had brought out of Egypt into unleavened (matzah) cakes, since it had not risen. They had been driven out of Egypt and could not delay, and they had not prepared any other provisions.
12:40 The lifestyle that the Israelites endured in Egypt had thus lasted 430 years.
12:41 At the end of the 430 years, all of God's armies left Egypt in broad daylight.
12:42 There was a night of vigil for God, [preparing] to bring them out of Egypt. This night remains for the Israelites a vigil to God for all generations.
12:43 God said to Moses and Aaron, 'This is the law of the Passover sacrifice:
'No outsider may eat it.
12:44 If a man buys a slave for cash and circumcises him, then [the slave] can eat it.
12:45 [But if a gentile is] a temporary resident or a hired hand, he may not eat [the Passover sacrifice].
12:46 'It must be eaten by a single group. Do not bring any of its meat out of the group. Do not break any of its bones.
12:47 'The entire community of Israel must keep [this ritual].
12:48 When a proselyte joins you and wants to offer the Passover sacrifice to God, every male [in his household] must be circumcised. He may then join in the observance, and be like a native-born [Israelite]. But no uncircumcised man may eat [the sacrifice].
12:49 The same law shall apply both for the native-born [Israelite] and for the proselyte who joins you.'
12:50 All the Israelites did as God had instructed Moses and Aaron. They did it exactly.
12:51 On that very day, God took the Israelites out of Egypt in organized groups.
These are the laws of the pascal sacrifice. It specifically says that the pascal sacrifice will be a lamb, not a human being. And it says that the pascal sacrifice was done exactly as G-d commanded it... with a lamb, not a human being as the sacrifice. Furthermore, was Jesus tied to a bedpost for three days before being sacrificed? Was his blood smeared on the doorposts of the Jewish people? Was his flesh eaten in Jerusalem? His actual flesh, not a cracker? Last I heard, cannibalism was prohibbited in Jewish law. Was Jesus' body "flawless" at the time of his death, or did he have nail holes in his hands and feet and a spear wound on his body? Was he dry-roasted over an open fire? Was his flesh eaten with Matzoh and bitter herbs? If not, then these verses cannot apply to Jesus, can they?

Continued