[Poppy1234]

Hello all,

Five years ago I thought a wisdom tooth at the back looked a bit discoloured, & thought that might indicate the start of decay.
I pointed it out to my dentist, but he said it was fine.
I pointed it out a further 10 times, every six months, but he always said it was fine, but never bothered x-raying it.
Now he's finally x-rayed it today, & there IS a problem with it. Said it WAS decayed & needs a filling.

So why didn't he say so 5 years ago instead of leaving it to get worse?
Why do they say go to the dentist every 6 months to check on decay if they just ignore it for 5 years!

As it's got no worse at all in 5 years, then why does it need treatment now anyway?
And does it?
It appears to me to have this "arrested caries" I've heard about, where the decay stops.
It must have, or tooth would have gone bad in 5 years, surely?
It looks the same now as back then, it's only now he's bothered x-raying it. He said 6 months ago he'd x-ray it, then said he "didn't have time". So it just got ignored & ignored.

Why has a decaying tooth been left for so long? Anyone got any ideas?
I don't want an unnecessary filling done. If it's been the same for 5 years, I wonder if it really needs a filling?

(Considering I eat no sweet stuff at all & clean my teeth all the time, I don't see how I can get ANY decay anyway... I'm baffled as to how I could have prevented this.)

Thanks.

[flossie]

Poppy,

I'd suggest you go for a second opinion. Just book an appointment to have the dentist check your wisdom teeth. You can ask for a copy of the x-ray that was just taken to take with you.

[Poppy1234]

Poppy,

I'd suggest you go for a second opinion. Just book an appointment to have the dentist check your wisdom teeth. You can ask for a copy of the x-ray that was just taken to take with you.

Thanks Flossie. But it's just not that easy to get another NHS dentist in my area, as I don't pay for treatment.
I'm not doubting this now needs a filling. If the x-ray shows it does, then it probably does.
I'm questioning why it was ignored for 5 years, when I kept pointing it out to him.
He knows I don't use toothpaste & that my teeth have never seen fluoride, so you'd think he'd have been more interested in it.

So I'd just like to know the possible reasons for leaving visible signs of decay for 5 years until x-raying, & discovering something IS wrong with it.
Thanks.

[flossie]

This page may explain the process of decay and remineralization. Our oral environments do change as years go by so the condition of the tooth as it is now is what is telling your dentist that a filling is needed.

How long does it take a cavity to form? / How remineralization reverses tooth decay. / Reading dental x-rays.

[Poppy1234]

This page may explain the process of decay and remineralization. Our oral environments do change as years go by so the condition of the tooth as it is now is what is telling your dentist that a filling is needed.

How long does it take a cavity to form? / How remineralization reverses tooth decay. / Reading dental x-rays.

Thanks a lot Flossie. That's an interesting article.

I suppose I just thought my dentist would have been taking a bit more interest in this tooth, as I don't use toothpaste, so have to be extra careful with decay.
I guess I thought he should have been x-raying this tooth, as it was clearly discoloured for years, if he was waiting to see if this remineralisation thingie might be happening.
But he constantly said there was NOTHING wrong with the tooth, & didn't x-ray it for 5 years, when it showed there was a problem with it.
Even I could see there was something wrong with it, years ago!

Shouldn't he have x-rayed it as soon as it looked dodgy, instead of just poking it & saying it was fine?

I'm really interested in the "modern" way of doing things, & the idea that decay can go away is interesting to me.
So I'm not sure if he was correct, or lazy! Was he in the right?

I just feel him ignoring this for so many years has resulted in me now needing a bigger filling than if he'd dealt with it years ago.
I can't do more than go every 6 months & keep pointing out a problem, can I?
I might as well have not bothered going so often, & just go every 5 years!

Thanks!

[flossie]

If the decay is on the chewing surface only then checking the tooth every 6 months by "poking at it" can often tell the dentist if it needs a filling or not. If the decay is between the teeth, then yes, x-ray is usually the only way to tell unless it's deep enough that his "poking" tooth gets stuck between the teeth or you are having sweet or cold sensitivity.

I wouldn't be too upset with your dentist for waiting 5 years to x-ray this tooth unless the cavity is more than a one surface cavity. If the cavity includes more than just the occlusal (biting) surface then I'd been a tiny bit peeved at him.

Be thankful your dentist isn't one of these dentists who take x-rays every 6 months or yearly on all his/her clients. X-rays are to be client specific meaning depending on the amount of fillings or frequency of decay or sensitivity the client is experiencing determines when and how frequently a client needs x-rays. There are many dentists who x-ray as often as possible only because they know the clients' insurance will pay for them!

[Poppy1234]

If the decay is on the chewing surface only then checking the tooth every 6 months by "poking at it" can often tell the dentist if it needs a filling or not. If the decay is between the teeth, then yes, x-ray is usually the only way to tell unless it's deep enough that his "poking" tooth gets stuck between the teeth or you are having sweet or cold sensitivity.

I wouldn't be too upset with your dentist for waiting 5 years to x-ray this tooth unless the cavity is more than a one surface cavity. If the cavity includes more than just the occlusal (biting) surface then I'd been a tiny bit peeved at him.

Be thankful your dentist isn't one of these dentists who take x-rays every 6 months or yearly on all his/her clients. X-rays are to be client specific meaning depending on the amount of fillings or frequency of decay or sensitivity the client is experiencing determines when and how frequently a client needs x-rays. There are many dentists who x-ray as often as possible only because they know the clients' insurance will pay for them!

Thanks again Flossie. Your replies are much appreciated.
It's the biting surface of a wisdom tooth only, not between.
To me, it's looked grey & horrible for years. But he just kept saying it was fine, but clearly it wasn't!
I get free dental treatment, (in the UK) but I know there are dentists out there trying to do extra work to get the money!
Though I personally wouldn't object to x-rays being taken every year if there was a clear problem, which there was, rather than ignore a tooth & leave it to decay further.
Remember I have never used toothpaste & my teeth have never seen fluoride...

Thanks!

[flossie]

Well, not using toothpaste or fluoride is your choice and you take the risks.
Teeth can appear decayed to the naked eye and sometimes it is just stain in the deep pits and grooves of the teeth. You really don't know if the area HAS gotten worse in 5 years. I would say if you were experiencing sensitivity to cold or sweet, which you haven't mentioned, it may be worse but if no sensitivity there is absolutely no way to tell if the area has worsened in 5 years.

[Poppy1234]

Well, not using toothpaste or fluoride is your choice and you take the risks.
Teeth can appear decayed to the naked eye and sometimes it is just stain in the deep pits and grooves of the teeth. You really don't know if the area HAS gotten worse in 5 years. I would say if you were experiencing sensitivity to cold or sweet, which you haven't mentioned, it may be worse but if no sensitivity there is absolutely no way to tell if the area has worsened in 5 years.

Cheers Flossie.
Not using toothpaste isn't really my choice. I've never been able to go near it as it makes me sick even being near someone else using it.
I find it physically sickening, & could never consider using it.
Fluoride (neat) isn't available in the UK. I've searched endlessly over the years to find some, but got told fluoride is of no use anyway unless you are young??

This tooth feels fine. All my other teeth are white & none are stained. This stood out as looking totally different to every other tooth for the past 5 years.

I never have trouble with pain in teeth until dentists start messing with them.
None of the teeth I had fillings in hurt until I had the filling, when they have given me trouble ever since. (Only ever had small fillings)

The same with cleaning. Go every 6 months to get them cleaned, but a dentist 3 years ago was so rough I'm now in constant pain in the inside of front teeth.
Keep telling my dentist about this too, but he's not interested, & says this is normal, & to use toothpaste for sensitive teeth, then I've told him a thousand times I could never put that repulsive stuff anywhere near my mouth.
So he wants to clean them next week at the same time as doing this filling. The pain of cleaning/prodding between the inside of my front teeth is horrific.
Like a severe electric shock/stabbing, like the nerve is hit.
To my eyes, there's not even any plaque there, as I have a tool to remove it. I guess there must be a bit still between the teeth I can't get to...
But why do they have to be so rough? They never used to be.

[Fr_Chuck]

I guess my question is why there were not complete x-rays done every year ? That at least in my part of the world, just normal dental treatment

[Poppy1234]

I guess my question is why there were not complete xrays done every year ? That at least in my part of the world, just normal dental treatment

Here in Manchester UK, I don't recall EVER getting an x-ray until about 7 years ago, & I went regularly.
This latest dentist x-rayed my teeth about 6 years ago when I first came to him, (said they were fine) but then nothing until last week, until I nagged him & nagged him over this tooth.
He said 6 months ago he would x-ray it this time, but surely that was risking further decay, in someone prone to decay as not using toothpaste?
I guess I'm just wondering whether to be cross with him or not! As Flossie says as the decay is on the biting surface only, I shouldn't be too annoyed...

[flossie]

Toothpaste as an adult is basically a breath freshener. It's the action of brushing and flossing that removes the cavity causing bacteria. There are fluoride rinses available in the UK (I just checked), you might have to ask a pharmacist for it because it may not be on the shelf for the public to purchase. There are a number of online stores that carry a Colgate fluoride rinse.

[Poppy1234]

Toothpaste as an adult is basically a breath freshener. It's the action of brushing and flossing that removes the cavity causing bacteria. There are fluoride rinses available in the UK (I just checked), you might have to ask a pharmacist for it because it may not be on the shelf for the public to purchase. There are a number of online stores that carry a Colgate fluoride rinse.

I don't consider that stench a breath freshener! It smells gross & it makes me physically sick!
The same for "fluoride rinses". The stench is so bad I couldn't even walk past the product on a supermarket shelf.
I would never put this repulsive stuff anywhere near my mouth, for any money.

I've looked hard, but there seems to be no way of buying neat fluoride in the UK unless it is laced with foul smelling & tasting "toothpaste" smells.

Flossie, is it correct that adults can't benefit from fluoride anyway? Only young teeth?

As I don't eat any sweet things, & brush my teeth after I eat anything, any idea how I'm still getting decay? (I rinse mouth after drinking pure orange as I know that attacks teeth.)
It makes me mad that friends suck on sweets all day, yet their teeth are OK, yet I eat no sweet stuff at all, & brush obsessively, yet I need treatment? (I know there's hidden sugars in all kinds of things, but I still clean my teeth all the time.)

I feel I'm doing all the right things, & going to the dentist every 6 months, only to find they ignore decay for years, & I still get decay even after all my hard work brushing away like a lunatic 10 times a day!!

[flossie]

Fluoride is most important for children while their teeth are developing. Usually between the ages of 14 and 18 fluoride treatments can stop being used if oral hygiene is good and sugars in diet are well controlled.

Adults with high sugar diets can benefit from fluoride treatment but it is STILL the removal of the bacterial plaque that prevents the sugar from forming acid that causes the decay.

[Poppy1234]

Thanks again Flossie.

Can I just ask...
I can't personally see ANY plaque build up on the inside of my lower front teeth, as I poke about & remove it.
However this dentist insists on doing a massive clean on Monday, where a probe is ripped between the teeth, causing me immense pain. I personally feel the nerve is exposed here, as the pain is so intense when a dentist does this.
A particularly rough dentist caused this pain 2 years ago, & I've not let them do it again since, but now he's insisting.
My teeth hurt all the time because if this rough cleaning 2 years ago, & I'm concerned if he does this again he will cause even more damage. It's not just the pain at the time of cleaning, but the pain I am left with.

Is this level of brutal cleaning REALLY necessary?
It's not like there is loads of plaque... well, not that I can see anyway...
Thanks!!

[flossie]

Plaque is not visible to the naked eye. If the dentist has measured periodontal pockets and the pockets are deeper than 3mm with bleeding on probing then it may be necessary to get under the gums with a scaler to removed the deposits that may be there.

Soft plaque can be seen if you use a disclosing solution. Sometimes even taking a couple of drops of food colouring and swishing it around your mouth before adding water or rinsing. Any stained areas are plaque deposits or bacterial biofilm and need to be brushed and flossed away.

There is no reason why the cleaning should be painful. You could ask the dentist to freeze the most sensitive areas before he cleans.

[Poppy1234]

Plaque is not visible to the naked eye. If the dentist has measured periodontal pockets and the pockets are deeper than 3mm with bleeding on probing then it may be necessary to get under the gums with a scaler to removed the deposits that may be there.

Soft plaque can be seen if you use a disclosing solution. Sometimes even taking a couple of drops of food colouring and swishing it around your mouth before adding water or rinsing. Any stained areas are plaque deposits or bacterial biofilm and need to be brushed and flossed away.

There is no reason why the cleaning should be painful. You could ask the dentist to freeze the most sensitive areas before he cleans.

Thanks again Flossie.
The cleaning isn't just painful... it's agonising. I can't describe the stabbing searing pain as he pulls a probe up between my teeth.
I feel that area has been damaged by cleaning, as they were fine until this rough dentist. Now this area hurts all the time.
Just putting my tongue on the inside of my inner front teeth feels painful & sensitive.
If he cleans roughly again, isn't he just going to make this constant pain worse, as this is how it was done in the first place?

Like I said, it's not just the agonising shooting pain whist the cleaning is done, it's how the teeth are left AFTER.
Are they being damaged when he does this? As they certainly feel like it.
It feels as though the outer layer of tooth has been chipped away & he's touching the nerves as he goes between the teeth. :eek: :eek:

CHEERS! :p

[flossie]

Well, I don't know how much training dentists in the UK get when it comes to scaling (cleaning) and root planing but here in Canada I think the dentists get all of 6 hours, that's it!
Is there not a dental hygienist who can clean your teeth there? He could do damage if he doesn't angle the instrument properly, he can actually gouge the roots of the teeth. It sounds like you may have some recession which can be caused by over aggressive brushing (or scaling). It's too bad you can't get your hands on some fluoride to apply to those teeth as the fluoride will definitely help with the sensitivity.

[Poppy1234]

Well, I don't know how much training dentists in the UK get when it comes to scaling (cleaning) and root planing but here in Canada I think the dentists get all of 6 hours, that's it!
Is there not a dental hygienist who can clean your teeth there? He could do damage if he doesn't angle the instrument properly, he can actually gouge the roots of the teeth. It sounds like you may have some recession which can be caused by over aggressive brushing (or scaling). It's too bad you can't get your hands on some fluoride to apply to those teeth as the fluoride will definitely help with the sensitivity.

Hi Flossie. Nope, there's no hygienist there.
I def had no problems in that area until that one rough cleaning.
We def can't buy fluoride here, but apparently you can ask for fluoride to be applied to teeth. (I've never ever used toothpaste... have always told dentists this, yet have NEVER been offered this, & didn't even know about it until today! )

I have just changed my dentist! And have decided I'm never letting anyone clean in that area again as I just can't risk more damage.
I'm sure the dentine has been exposed with that rough cleaning, & I can't have it getting any more damaged. It's between the teeth, not the roots, but is REALLY painful. :eek:

Thanks. :p

[braders73]

I would get a second opinion, go to a dentist for a check up and explain the story but also tell him no matter what happens you what be getting any further work done at his dentist, that your just there for a consult. A Dentist with nothig to gain will tell you the truth! Brad73