[gracie2010]

Threads have been merged


I have suffered many past verbal and emotional abuse from my husband. We`ve separated once and reconciled with the promise of him not repeating the same behaviour. It was good for a while and things went back to the way they were. When I feel hurt from the verbal and emotional hurts I tend to withdraw and become quiet and ry to reflect what has gone wrong. When I get quiet like this my husband automatically assumes that things are over and without talking things out he goes on the computer and registers on dating sites. I am trying hard to get over past hurts and he has really tried to change his behavior but the old ways rear their ugly head eventually. Is it possible that too much has happened to forgive and move on and be happy .He is very needy, insecure and controlling and I am questioning if I want this for my future, I`ve already endured 20 years and I feel so drained.

[DoulaLC]

This sounds like a vicious circle. Have you tried counseling together to try and break out of this routine? Someone outside of the marriage may be able to provide you both with some ways to better deal with the issues you are having.

Both of you withdraw when things get bad, just in different ways, and neither are healthy or obviously productive.

Twenty years is a long time to have this dance that no one enjoys. Seek help since you haven't been able to make the changes necessary on your own.

If that isn't an option, either together or on your own, then you will have to decide if you want to endure this another 20 years, because it isn't likely to change if it hasn't by now without both of you wanting it to and being willing to work towards that.

Painful situation... hard decisions. I hope he wants things to improve as much as you do and is willing to make the effort.

[gracie2010]

Thank you Doula for your kind words. Yes we have been to counselling on 3 different occasions. Separately and together. He only goes a few timws and says that we don';t need it anymore we can do it ourselves. I still wanted to go but ended up going alone. I think he refused to go when he didn't like what he heard

[DoulaLC]

Unfortuantely that is often the case... ending the sessions because you don't like what is heard and it sounds like too much work.

I'd talk to him again and try again to get him to realize that the two of you can't do it on your own... you haven't so far.

Point out the obvious to him; you both continue to react to things as you always have. Acknowledge to him that you know it will be difficult to break out of old habits and that you both may hear things you don't like, but your marriage is at stake and that needs to count for something.

Do you have children or family close enough to support the two of you in make changes?

If he simply won't go, go again on your own, and go for awhile. Things won't change overnight. You might get some ideas on how you can make changes in how you deal with things that go on. Maybe he will come around when he sees some of those changes.
You will also likely become stronger and more self-assured.

Hopefully it wouldn't come to it, but at some point you may have to make a difficult decision if things don't change in this marriage; if it is what you want to live the rest of your life.

[gracie2010]

Yes we have 4 children 18 to 26, Unfortunately they grew up seeing and experiencing his wrath. I feel very guily about not shielding them from this as I definitely see some mirrored behaviour in 2 of them. Kind of sad that their role model behaved so badly as they're all boys

[DoulaLC]

It is unfortunate, but you can talk to them about it and should. They need to be aware that what they experienced is not how a husband should treat his wife and not how a married couple should deal with anger,disappointments, and frustrations in their marriage. If you don't, they may repeat a similar cycle in their own relationships.

It's gone on long enough hasn't it? Do what you need to to help yourself be stronger. Talk to him, share your hurt over how the marriage has gone, own up to your own role in how things play out. Find out if he actually does want for things to change and be better; to have the sort of marriage I'm sure you both probably hoped to have.

If you both want it, it is never too late to turn things around. Yes, it will be hard, painful, and scary. It will be very easy to go back to what has become a familiar way of dealing with the upsets you face, so expect a struggle along the way.
But what a wonderful lesson you both could be teaching your children in how couples can turn things around and work together to make a better relationship.

I hope you can take that first step... talk to your boys. Even if they don't show much response, they will be listening and they will remember. Let them see you have the courage to make some changes on your own if you have to. Hopefully their father will join you, hopefully he wants things to be better too, but again, do it for yourself if you have to.

[kp2171]

Your kids will want you healthy.''

I don't think you can be healthy with him. Not without some changes that you cannot force.

Call me jaded. My ex and I have a fairly civil rfelationship... one many friends are confused about, as there were really terrible things endured. Awful cheating on her side, complete mental breakdown on mine.

I'm tired of struggling with the past... and I know unless I deal with what behavior let me stay in that place, ill go back there. When you are down and hurting and not right, its not hard to find an excuse.

He doesn't believe you need help to mend your relationship. Its done. Over.

Do I forgive my ex for the terrible things done? I guess I understand some of it if I can try to get into her head and look from her point of view. What I can't understand... I really, really just do my best to say "it isnt my life"... "she can choose to make the same mistakes over and over... they dont need to be mistakes i have to live with, or at least hurt from"...

My focus is on me and my son.

Would I have a different opinion if my son were not in the mix? Yes. I'm sure id be more angry and id cut ties more, maybe completely. Likely itd be completely.

But I think we seem to be able to find a balance with our son in mind. We can be kind and see each other and we can be a part of each others life without crossing some serious borders.

It took some time. A lot of hurt and frustration and ache.

But the more I accepted that, no matter how much I might be attracted to her, it just wasn't ever right... the easier it was. And the more I accepted that this struggle was done... it was time to let go... the easier it was.

We are good friends and lousy spouses. Oil and water for no real rational reason. Good on paper, wrong in performance. Don't know why. Have stopped asking.

It just is.

So... I've forgiven her for some things... some things that I still struggle with... I have to, must, write off to "this is her problem. not mine. not anymore."

My son wants a healthy parent to be engaged and present. I can't be healthy with her. It's a bad fit. It's that simple. The more I accepted this, the easier it was.

[gracie2010]

Thanks for all the wisdom and good advice. I think I could forgive the past if the same behaviours weren't still happening but some of them still are. To be constantly responsible for anothers happiness is very suffocating and I know it is un healthy. This is just one thing that needs to be overcome.I think it would help if he had friends or other interests outside of the marriage but he doesn't

[kp2171]

I know a great therapist who specializes in drug addictions. He is an addict (recovering, 12 years clean). He sold drugs. Was arrested in no less than six different states.

He often asks people who have gone through treatment how they know they are recovering.

And he shakes his head at how often people get it wrong.

They often cite getting a job or going to meetings or going to church or whatever... but the real answer is that the recovering, healthy addict... the person on the right path to not making the same mistakes... is the person who is changing their life to avoid the same patterns.

A person with money and/or a job can be just as addicted as someone who doesn't have that.

A person who attends meetings on addiction can still use in their private time.

...

So... his pattern of behavior does not change long term, and there is no action being taken to show you there really is change. Not lasting change.

So... he continues to isolate himself. He hasn't embraced the need to focus on himself and not the relationship... he needs to be healthy before there is any talk about relationship... the relationship is not a crutch to be used to "make him right"... and so I just think its better to step back hard.

My ex cheated on me big time. I later found out she cheated on other men before me. And then I found out she was still seeking out an unavailable man (in relationship) while asking for counseling help for our relationship. Done. Ovah. Finished.

She was struggling with the same issues 15 years ago that she is still struggling with today. She is intellegent. Well read. Has read all kinds of books about relationships and self improvement and moving forward.

But she doesn't. She never changes how she acts... and I had to be done.

He doesn't seem to embrace the opportunity he has... he could turn his life around and maybe salvage a love. He isn't doing it. And you don't have that superpower or agenda or charge. It isn't your fight.

He isn't right for you because he isn't right.

Deep breath in and out.

You can not make him happy. Not in a sustaining way. Not in a way that lets you focus on your life. Its too much work and effort.

An addict changes his life by honestly believing that he betrayed himself. It is internal. Not out there.

Its not that much different concerning relationships. You must accept that it is not your job to forgive him and it isn't your job to make him happy... and in doing so, you will probably forgive him more than you think.

At least that's my experience.

[Homegirl 50]

I think you have reached a point where you don't want t spend the rest of your life this why. Life is too short to be in a bad situation, knowing it won't get better. Do you think this will change or do you see them staying the same?
Your kids are older and will soon be gone. Ask yourself if there is enough here to salvage.
Have a talk with your husband. Tell him how you feel. Ask him if he wants to work on what is left of your marriage. But be prepared to walk if that is what you want.
I just left a 32 year marriage. We talked about things and I decided I did not want to spend the rest of my life living this way. We separated for 18 months and then divorced. We are still friends, we talk quite often, but most important, we are both happier.
I wish you well

[gracie2010]

Threads have been merged




My husband thinks nothing of hiding financial information or opening bank accounts behind my back and then lying about it when confronted. This has happened a few times before and each time he says he won't do it again or most recently says he's done nothing wrong. I don't have a problem with him saving money in a separate account, just not in secret.
I have been asking for a new vehicle to replace mine that is in such disrepair and has a lot wrong with it, but have been told it's not worth fixing it because it's too old. He says you can get a new one. I think hje says that just to placate me as every time I bring it up he says there's no rush you don't need one right now. I feel like my opinions or if I need anything is totally dismissed as not important in his eyes.

When checking our joint account I noticed that $15,000 had been taken out. I asked him about it and he said he had lent it to his sister for a down payment for a house. I told him that he should have discussed it with me first( I would never have refused her the help) but thought it was only respectful to discuss with me first. He said why I know you wouldn't care. Well I did care especially since he keeps putting off getting me a safer vehicle. To try and get him to feel what it was like to be in my shoes, I said how would you feel if you had discovered the same thing and I said I had lent it to my sister. His answer was, she doesn't need it, so he was missing the point.

I have been asking to have air conditioning to be put in the house as perimenopause makes it hard for me to sleep period let alone when it's stifling hot. He said 12 years ago I gave the kids a choice of air conditioning or a pool, they chose the pool so I'm not putting air conditioning in. For one thing the kids were all 12 and under and another thing, grow up circum,stances change. I tried to explain something to him the other day and he didn't want to hear it so he put his hand over my mouth so I couldn't speak. He said he was just joking, but I didn't take it as a joke. I don't feel like he cares about the way I feel about anything. We are not financially compromised so it's not a shortage of funds, it's just that he likes to say how they are spent.

[Jake2008]

Do you know for a fact that $15,000 was in fact a down payment for his sister? What were the terms of the arrangement for repayment?

You are entitled to know. This isn't about him not wanting to talk about it- he has to be held accountable for taking money, and setting up accounts, and making a loan to a family member. These marriage funds are joint and equal.

If it isn't such a big deal, why can't he be honest and upfront about it, and do these things jointly as he should be doing.

I feel you are missing something here. Why do you think he is so secretive about money. Could he be cheating? Gambling? Hiding assets? Are you on top of the finances, and aware of exactly how much money there is, and in who's name its in?

All I can say is that to me, this is very fishy. I do not think you are over reacting, and in fact, think that you are not yet knowing the truth of what he is up to. My advice is to trust your instinct, and start doing a little digging to find out what he's up to and why.

[gracie2010]

Thank you jake 2008 for you reply. Yes I know for a fact the money is for my husband's sister to buy a house. Money is my husband's security but to the point where it gets very petty. I realise that our marital assets are joint property, but he thinks he has the last say on anything because he makes more money. I truly believe he doesn't trust me with money. I have not wracked up huge bills or done any undiscetionary spending.

When my husband needed a new car I was very supportive, going around to the different dealership's to test drive with him. I didn't give him any opposition as we had the money to buy a new vehicle and if he needed one , why would I oppose this. I get opposition on any big ticket item that I make a suggestion for. He'll find any or many excuses why we don't need it. I've had to practically beg for a new car in the past, even when mine was not a safe vehicle to drive. I've lost interest in decorating or making the house nice as everything is a fight to buy anything. I think when you constantly get opposition for anything you want you give up. We are not poor but sometimes I feel like it. I live paycheck to paycheck (my responsibility is the groceries, which takes up a huge chunk as there are 6 of us in the household) I constantly feel like I have to go out and get an evening job just so I can have money left over for anything I need. Sucks believe me.

[BMI]

While I do think he should consult you on withdrawing large amounts of money and financial matters as a whole, I do not know your 'agreement' up to this point. Has it always been established that he is the one in control of finances or is this just something he started excluding you from?

The reason I ask (and don't take this too poorly) is that I do note the repitition of you wanting a new car. Is his reluctance to get you this new car a springboard for all of this? I mean, you mention safety as the reason for a new car, which almosts suggests that him not getting it for you means that he is selfish and could care less that what you are currently driving is dangerous. Furthermore, if it were truly dangerous, why would you be even driving it?

As the poster above mentioned, events like this spur speculation into whether this may be a drug/gambiling problem. However, you did not suspect that because you know where the money went.

It's just my observation, I may be totally wrong. However, your language seemed interesting. Perhaps something to consider.

[gracie2010]

BMI.. I can see why you would question my perception of the situation when I only used cars as an example. There are many other instances I could use but the car issue is the most frustrating, because here you have a guy who's driving around in a safe comfortable car, who's stashing money in secret accounts, lending money out without discussion amd I'm driving a vehicle with broken abs, gas gauge not working so it's a caculating guessing game when I'm going to run out and no heat during frigid canadian winters. I don't ask for much but a safe comfortable car shouldn't be too much to ask for.

My son needed braces but my husband came back from the orthodontist saying they are just going to keep an eye on his teeth. It wasn't until I went to the dentist that they asked how the appointment with the orthodontist went that I was enlightened to the situation and realised he'd lied because he didn't want to put the money out. He denies it to this day.

[Jake2008]

Gracie, you are not crazy, and you are not imagining things. Everything you have questioned, and the strange things that happen in your marriage, I think it's safe to say most of us have had those doubts ourselves about our partners.

I know you must realize that marital assets, are marital assets. Everything is shared, equally, and one party or the other does not get dibs because they make more money, or they have outside plumbing.

Think first of yourself as deserving of trust and accountability, both in the receiving, and in the giving. You are doing nothing wrong in expecting joint decisions on major decisions. That he hides assets, and makes decisions, which all revolve around money, this seems to be coming to light more of a compulsive, controlling thing. Many times this is behaviour that he cannot control himself. If he has no accountability to anyone but himself, he can therefore satisfy his need to control.

And where does that come from. Insecurity? Stress? Think of a healthy tree. But there is a vine growing up the side of the tree. The tree can only survive by feeding the vine. If the tree sees the vine growing, the need increases to keep it at bay. Even if that means the nutrients it needs to stay strong, are compromised.

So goes a compulsion. Something needs to feed his behaviour. If it is the control via money and decisions, it is not something he is going to give up easily. At least not without help. You are seeing the results of his behaviour (the braces, the car, etc.), but you do not yet know what drives him to make decisions that only benefit himself.

I'm beginning to think this isn't so much to do with the lack of a new vehicle, or the secret accounts, but more to do with his need to control. That might be the key in learning why this is, and he may need to speak to someone in order to learn how to understand and change his own behaviour.

Remember to him, what he does seems perfectly reasonable, and to you it is perfectly unreasonable. And I would say I agree with your observations.

Even when he has tried to change as you've noted, he goes back to old habits, and appears not to be able to keep a promise.

I see nothing wrong with attending counselling. Either him, or you, or both of you. All of it has to come out on the table, and worked through to find effective ways to change and compromise. Until the bigger picture is dealt with, you will be in for more of the same, with perhaps a few carrots thrown your way to keep the peace.

[gracie2010]

Thank you Jake for shedding some light on a frustrating situation. We have been to counselling on many occasions, but he only went for a few sessions and said he didn't need to go anymore. I continued to go on my own but was told that it would be much more productive with both of us present but he wouldn't go back. I think a lot of the control and domination come from his mother who is herself very controlling. My father in law is a very submissive man who she totally controls. My husband vowed no woman is ever going to tell me what to do.

Since finding the last bank account and being lied to about it I started to distance myself from him physically and emotionally as I was feeling more like a roommate than a wife. I still took care of everything I normally did around the house, just our relationship was platonic. I tried to talk to him about the way I felt and he insisted he'd done nothing wrong so what was the point.

If he had taken responsibility for what he'd done and said OK let's sit down I'll show you where all the money is so you're not in the dark and there will be no secrets. When I asked to know how much money were in some of our other accounts and investment, he wouldn't go on the computer and show me because he said I have my private stuff on there. WTH... our finances were his private business.

Since we were not getting along, he toook an fu attitude and decided to go on vacation by himsellf to the Caribbean. I had no idea when he was leaving because he didn't say anything until the night before and flatly refused to leave a number where he was going to be ( I wanted in case of emergency) . I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wouldn't have had a problem if he had been mature about it and said I'm going away, I need some time to think things over, I would have been fine with that, but to let me know only the night before and to refuse to leave an emergency number was very inconsiderate. He didn't even tell the kids he was going , he text them goodbye from the airport.

[Cat1864]

After reading your other thread (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marria...ts-496658.html), I am going to be blunt and it may come off as harsh, but please think about it.

You need to contact a divorce lawyer and find out what exactly your legal rights are and protect them. Check every account that you know about as soon as you can. Do Not wait for another statement.

Your husband has been abusive in the past to where you separated. He hides money and now he is taking a surprise trip to one of the biggest money hiding places in the world.

I may be over-reacting but I am sincerely concerned about your situation at this moment. Be proactive so that you don't get blind-sided if he doesn't come back.

Please take care of yourself and your children who are still in the house.

[gracie2010]

Hi Cat... He came back and we talked about why he wouldn't leave a number when he was gone. He said I'm going to have to start accepting him for who he was and that includes accepting he fact he didn't want to leave a number. He said he went down there and got his diving certificate. If that was truly the case then why all the secrecy.

[Jake2008]

As Ann Landers used to say, "Are you better off with him, or without him".

It seems you've been through a 20+ relationship that has been underscored with abuse, control, and complacency. I do sympathize with the fact that raising a housefull of kids may have provided goals and responsibilities that kept you busy, and content.

Now that your children are older, and you are faced with a future that boils down to yourself, and your husband for the most part, it may be time to make some tough choices. To stay, you pretty much know what the status quo is with him, and after all these years, it isn't likely he will change. After so many tries at counselling to address serious issues, his choice is obvious- himself and his needs.

To leave, is a scary prospect. After such a long marriage, to be on your own, and only responsible for yourself is a major life change. (sometimes the devil you know sort of thing, is better than the alternative)

I agree with Cat that you need to seek legal advice. Sit down and find out what would be negotiated to reach a settlement for separation. What it will cost, what you can expect, etc.

At some point consider gathering as much information as you can on the finances. Visit the bank, get a credit check, find the accounts if you can. When and if you do visit a lawyer, tell him all that you have said here about the secret deals, accounts, and activities. You are entitled to know, particularly if he has attached liens and mortgages that you are unaware of. Get bank statements.

I hope that you can seek counselling on your own. There are many women's resources available. You can plan a life on your own if you choose to, and have the support you need to make it happen.

This is your life, after all.