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valinors_sorrow · Dec 16, 2006, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by goldnugget

no val i am not angry or otherwise with you. in fact, your advise is wonderful on this site and you also helped me. i think you give great advice. i am just concerned about the small minority who, everyone might just pass off as a pain in the arse.

That is good to hear. Thanks for clearing it up!

I think there is a line that some here do cross. To cause undue pain is not good and is not right. I am very willing to inform OP's that if they feel disrespected they have just as much right to complain here as the rest of us. And they should too!

But I have been helping people for a long time due to the profession I was in and sometimes Gold Nugget, there is no way to help someone unless they begin to swallow some truths. Small bites are better, yes. But to help sometimes really does mean to cause pain. Doctors go through this often. Counselors do too. Anyone in the personal advice biz is going to have to determine where they are in the "hurting someone to help them" equation. It will not be helpful or even kind in the long run to be only sympathetic but withhold information about how to solve the problem. This is a place where people come for soulitions and some solutions are not so easy to digest. What then?

So maybe its necessary to see the difference between "good" pain and "bad" pain, if hurting someone in order to help them is necessary. Is it serving the person constructvely or is it sending them further into their own pain and making them defensive instead. That is what I meant in my first post. This is a good topic but it is not one that lends itself to black and white answers.

talaniman · Dec 16, 2006, 07:43 AM

Yes tal and that's what I mean. I'm sure a lot of people come here in shock and a 'slap' is not what they need. Granted, a lot of people would come here (like myself) for some sort of validation and advice but there are others who are totally lost, totally have no one, are not very articulate about putting their pain down on paper, can't put their feelings into type very well and are judged unfairly. You will never be able to slap the pain out of someone tal. No one needs to be slapped to bring their pain to light

That's where we differ nugget, I think you should give people what you think they need based on what they have written. It not like your knocking sense into them, but as I say a wake up call. I've seen those that come here with problems and are ready for a good fight and don't want to listen or hear what you have to say. There are those that come with their own answers and NEED tough love. Everyone is different and has to be approached dfferently. The same approach does not fit all.

goldnugget · Dec 16, 2006, 07:50 AM

Yes tal I know where you are coming from but sometimes I really don't think that people want to hear who is right or wrong... they just want support with what they are going through. They just want someone to listen. I know I have never claimed to be an expert on this site because I am no expert but I have had pain myself and also worked in psychology for 2 yrs after my masters. I have seen people suffer

Allheart · Dec 16, 2006, 07:54 AM

Gold,

That is a great question. Personally, my biggest fear is that I give the wrong advice. I worry so much sometimes about that.

There are times that no matter how you word the truth, it will never be heard without pain from the person who is hurting.

When I read a post, I just take it for a fact, that they are hurting and deeply hurting and their hurt is no less than any hurt I have ever felt.

Some may think I have the opposite problem, that I am too "soft". And it is not intentional on my part at all or am I trying to say a harsh reality in a soft way. It just is my nature to respond the way I do. I am not planning on changing that part of me.

Again, my biggest fear is and always will be, I am telling them the wrong thing. But what makes this sight so incredible is that there are amazing and insightful folks that come in before and after me that give the poster a pretty darn good overall picture.

This is an incredibly great question and a good reminder to all of us, that the pain is real, the posters are real, and may the words they receive help them to heal and gain better insight.

talaniman · Dec 16, 2006, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by goldnugget

yes tal i know where you are coming from but sometimes i really don't think that people want to hear who is right or wrong...they just want support with what they are going through. they just want someone to listen. i know i have never claimed to be an expert on this site because i am no expert but i have had pain myself and also worked in psychology for 2 yrs after my masters. i have seen people suffer

As have I.

valinors_sorrow · Dec 16, 2006, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by goldnugget

yes tal i know where you are coming from but sometimes i really don't think that people want to hear who is right or wrong...they just want support with what they are going through. they just want someone to listen. i know i have never claimed to be an expert on this site because i am no expert but i have had pain myself and also worked in psychology for 2 yrs after my masters. i have seen people suffer

What you are really debating here Goldnugget is the purpose of the site and many here think its about solution, not support. I favor solution with a little support myself. But support or listening without progress toward solution -- I can say openly I am not interested in that. They need to find that somewhere else. To think its okay to tap resources like this and not be open to actually getting tangible help in the way of a solution too is not a reasonable expectation. This is not a support group or a chatroom and if that is what they need, those are out there and available too.

JoeCanada76 · Dec 16, 2006, 08:04 AM

I never worry about my advice being wrong, it could be. I do worry about my advice being too blunt, or rude.

Joe

Bluerose · Dec 16, 2006, 08:22 AM

"does anyone ever worry that their comments might push someone who is in crisis 'over the edge' or leave them feeling helpless?"

Very good question. I have been in 'crisis' on and off most of my life. I treat people the way I was treated, with kindness and gentleness. And it worked, but then I was willing to listen to what they had to say.

I think that is what really helps people, just being willing to listen, even if you don't take all the advice on board.

“The fool listens to no one while the wise man listen to everyone - even the fool.”

“Don't make the mistake of thinking you know all you need to know about yourself and the world you live in, you may deprive yourself of some very useful information that could change your whole out-look on life.”

Having said that, I have come across a couple of 'tough' comments and worried about their affect on a young vulnerable person.

I think we should all pay head the topic of this thread. I think it is VERY important.

valinors_sorrow · Dec 16, 2006, 08:57 AM

To answer your question more directly, yes I do have these concerns routinely. Most recently I expressed those concerns on two thread:

Here: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...bby-48610.html

And here: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/divorc...end-48176.html

Allheart · Dec 16, 2006, 09:00 AM

Gold,

Sorry, I didn't want you to think I had not noticed some of the more “harsh” responses. Not the ones with dead on advice, that comes from years of experience, but the ones that just blow your socks off (not in a good way) , to where you think, where did you come from and why? I have only seen it a handful of times, and to be honest, my mind for a second just goes blank. When I come to, I think a couple of things, I put my bathing suit on and jump right in that pool, without any reference to whatever that was that just flew in. I put it in the “don't need that pile” and I don't give it a second thought as I trust the moderators on here implicitidly, and leave things like that in their capable hands, which free the rest of us to go back to hopefully being helpful. There is also a “report an inappropriate post” button that can be used. I do however, have great concern as to how it effected the poster.

But all of this is after the fact, I know. I think the occurrences are very few, thankfully, and I think you brining this up, shows what a sensitive and kind person you are. Good for you!

On the other hand, I have also seen incredible advice given, which was dead on, and because the person is in pain, lashed right back at the person who was trying to be helpful. I guess it can work both ways.

Again, great question, and good for you for bringing it to the surface.

Knucklez · Dec 17, 2006, 12:32 PM

I think the poster must realize that they are just asking for advice and make their own mind. If they are in a real crisis, then a message board is NOT where they should turn to for guidance, but should seek one-on-one consultation with a professional!

I like helping people and I found the advice on this site to be very useful. Thanks to everyone for contributing

Knucklez

s_cianci · Dec 17, 2006, 12:53 PM

I don't think that's really a concern. I think the best thing to do is to respond in an honest way, the way you'd respond to someone you care deeply about. Sometimes we have to say things that may not be too pleasant but that people need to hear.

rol · Dec 18, 2006, 02:15 AM

Yeah totally agree with Val about the woman who asked for advcie on the cheating husband thread... Some advice can be a bit tough... but its true sometimes it needs to be heard...

However like GEOFF Said in another thread some hope is definitely needed at the beginning to ease your way into accepting what is going on..

BLUEROSE SUMS IT UP REALLY WELL HERE...
Having said that, I have come across a couple of 'tough' comments and worried about their affect on a young vulnerable person.

I think we should all pay head the topic of this thread. I think it is VERY important.