[scarpia]

I'm sorry that his is very long. The summary is that a dentist gave me porcelain veneers with acrylic cement even though he knew I was allergic to acrylic. I was in considerable pain but he did not agree to remove the acrylic until I filed a complaint. He removed the acrylic but did very poor work that left me in pain. I complained to the board of dental examiners but they said he has done nothing wrong. I have spent over $20,000 in the past 5 years and I am still in pain. I have had 3 dentists charge me for poor work and other dentists I go to tell me that it is impossible to be allergic to dental materials. I don't know what to do or how I can ever find a trustworthy dentist now. Here is a more detailed explanation:

In 2005 I paid a dentist over $10k for porcelain veneers on my top and bottom teeth. I let the dentist know I was allergic to acrylic. He did not tell me that there was acrylic in the cement for the veneers even after I complained about an odd cottony sensation in my mouth after they were placed. He told me that it was likely a side effect from all the anesthetic he gave me and that it would go away. It didn't. A year later my mouth and tongue were burning up. I went back to him and he told me that it couldn't be due to the veneers. I asked him if there was acrylic in the cement. He admitted that there was but still denied that had anything to do with my burning mouth and tongue. I went to an ENT and allergist. They didn't help much. The ENT would only say that I had glossitis and refused to speculate on the cause. The allergist said it was possible that the acrylic cement was causing the problem but there was no way to prove it. I went back to the dentist but he told me that the allergist agreed with him and that the veneer cement could not possibly be the cause of the problem. I went to several other dentists but they denied that it could be the acrylic cement. One even told me that I must have been subconsciously rubbing my tongue against my teeth and that was the cause of the problem.

I finally found one dentist who said it could be the cement. He agreed to take the veneers off and give me crowns with a non acrylic cement. He lied. He charged me $3,000 and only took the veneers off and put on temporary acrylic based veneers that were just as painful to me. He then claimed that it was not the acrylic but the phenol dyes in the acrylic that was the problem.

I was able to find out who made the veneer cement and wrote to them. They told me that there were rare cases of people having allergic reactions to the cement. After nearly a year of research while I was in pain I filed a complaint with the state dental board. This is not the board of dental examiners but a bord of dentists who mediate complaints. After that the dentist finally agreed to take the veneers out and put in porcelain crowns with a non acrylic cement free of charge. He lied. He put it a good set of crowns on my bottom teeth, but then he said he had to charge me for the top crowns. I complained to the dental board but they told me to give the dentist a break because his house had burned down. So I paid him almost $4000 for crowns and he screwed them up. They were unglazed and tasted like chalk. Months later he agreed to take them out and he charged me thousands more for another set. These might have been all right but he shaved away at the back of them which created a rough unglazed surface that irritated my tongue. A month later he finally polished them but even that was not good enough to stop them from irritating my tongue. He then agreed to put another set in. He chaired me thousands of dollars more for a set of horrible metal crowns that had rough chalky porcelain at the tips.

I went to other dentists but they said they could not put anything else in because my bite had been altered when the back of the crowns got shaved. I finally found one who said he would do it after I showed him that I could move my bite back to where it was before. I specified that I needed the crowns to match the ones on the bottom because I was sensitive to materials. He agreed to give me the same materials - ivolclar porcelain. He even showed me a material safety sheet for ivoclar porcelain. He lied. He charged me $5,000. They tasted like chalk. I wrote to Ivoclar and the rep there called the dentist. The dentist admitted to him that it was not Ivoclar porcelain but a material called zircon.

I called all of the local dental malpractice lawyers but they told me that lawsuits against dentists don't pay well and cost too much to file. One told me that if I paid the $50,000 cost of filing a suit he would do it for me. But he told me that juries in my state don't award punative damages and I was not likely to get back more than the amount I paid the dentist. So I would be paying $50,000 to get back $25,000. And there was no promise that I would even win.

I wrote back to the dental board. I wanted my money back from the original dentist so I could afford to have an honest component dentist put in good ivoclar crowns. They didn't even answer me. I wrote to every member of the board but they still refused to answer me. I finally got the president of the board on the phone. He told me that they were busy and that I might want to file a complaint with the board of dental examiners and secretary of state's office. I wrote a complaint to them and the consumer protection division of the attorney general's office. The attorney general's office did not answer me. The secretary of state's office told me they would conduct and investigation. They kept saying that for 18 months. Finally a couple of days ago they wrote back to me and said that the board of dental examiners had found no unprofessional conduct.


Now I have no idea what to do. I am still in considerable discomfort for bad crowns. But many dentists have lied to me and charged me thousands of dollars for bad work. Since there is no penalty for dentists who do poor work there is no way I can assure that any dentist will do a half decent job. Some people are telling me I should just have the teeth removed, but I don't think I should have to get my teeth pulled because there are no honest dentists. How can I find an honest dentist? Is there any other way to bring this bad dentist to justice? Will I have to learn to do my own dental work? Can someone do that?

[Fr_Chuck]

I lost count, I am sorry, it is just too hard to believe someone had that many bad dentists in a roll. And paying that much money.

If they did improper work, you report them to the state license board, and sue them for the money you paid them. The burden of proof if on you to prove the work was not up to current standards

[flossie]

I agree with Fr_Chuck, obviously there was some major miscommunication in this whole process. If a dentist is aware that someone is allergic to something he would be using he would definitely avoid using it and look for an alternative. Using an allergen would just be plain malpractice and no dentist wants that hanging over their head.

[scarpia]

No. Because dentists can't be sued for malpractice. It doesn't pay enough. I mentioned that in my question. The licensing board doesn't punish them either. They are free to butcher people and there is no penalty.

There was NO failure of communication. These guys just want to make money and they don't care if they hurt people. I called the dentist over and over and told him I wanted the acrylic out of my mouth but he wouldn't even return my calls. I was VERY clear with the second dentist. He even showed me a copy of a MSDS for ivoclar porcelain. But he put in chalky tasting zircon. He lied. He just wanted to make money. He could have been honest and said he didn't work with ivoclar, but then he wouldn't have made any money off me. Dentists are supposed to HEP people who are in pain. All they do is exploit them.

[scarpia]

I lost count, I am sorry, it is just too hard to believe someone had that many bad dentists in a roll. and paying that much money.

If they did improper work, you report them to the state license board, and sue them for the money you paid them. The burden of proof if on you to prove the work was not up to current standards

It seems like you haven't read my post. I DID report the dentist. The board of dental examiners is made up of dentists - and they won't do anything. I cannot sue either.

[scarpia]

I agree with Fr_Chuck, obviously there was some major miscommunication in this whole process. If a dentist is aware that someone is allergic to something he would be using he would definitely avoid using it and look for an alternative. Using an allergen would just be plain malpractice and no dentist wants that hanging over their head.

I see that you are in Canada. Maybe things are better there. I live near Canada. Maybe I could go to Montreal to get decent dental care. All I need are old fashioned porcelain fused to metal crowns with a non acrylic cement. That is technology that has been around for over 50 years.

[Wondergirl]

I complained to the dental board but they told me to give the dentist a break because his house had burned

How did you have the fortitude and patience and money to continually go to dentist after dentist to get crowns that didn't work for you? It's hard to believe you have any teeth left. Didn't you use referrals? How did you find these dentists? (I know of two dentists in the Chicago area I would trust with my life and will refer you to.)

Now, please explain to me why a dentist's house fire has anything to do with this.

[flossie]

Have you looked up the dentists you've seen on RateMD.com? Perhaps a posting there to warn others might be indicated here?

If you are willing to pay again for the work to be done and Montreal isn't that far, maybe you SHOULD see a dentist there.
I'd choose 2 or 3 to book consults with and then ask them for before and after photos or for clients names that you can call to find out how if they were satisfied with their treatment.

[scarpia]

How did you have the fortitude and patience and money to continually go to dentist after dentist to get crowns that didn't work for you? It's hard to believe you have any teeth left. Didn't you use referrals? How did you find these dentists? (I know of two dentists in the Chicago area I would trust with my life and will refer you to.)

Now, please explain to me why a dentist's house fire has anything to do with this.

How? Because I have been in pain.

Referrals - yes. From the state dental society. The original dentist got good reviews on a dental review site. He has 25+ years experience. I talked to friends about their dentists and called the ones who people liked. I checked with the secretary of state's office to see if there had been any complaints against these dentists. There haven't been.

What does his house fire have to do with it? It shouldn't have anything to do with it. But the people at the dental society said that it did.

I am nowhere near Chicago. But if you send me their names I will call them. I bet they give me the same bull though. Dentists don't want to deal with people who have material sensitivities because it is too likely that they will get complaints. It's much easier for them to say something ridiculous ( like I am rubbing my tongue against my teeth and that is causing my pain) and turn away someone in pain.

[scarpia]

Have you looked up the dentists you've seen on RateMD.com? Perhaps a posting there to warn others might be indicated here?

If you are willing to pay again for the work to be done and Montreal isn't that far, maybe you SHOULD see a dentist there.
I'd choose 2 or 3 to book consults with and then ask them for before and after photos or for clients names that you can call to find out how if they were satisfied with their treatment.

I am giving these dentists bad ratings on every site I ca find, including RateMD.

I really doubt that dentists can give me names of clients. And the big problem is that my situation is rare so getting peoples opinions may not help.

[flossie]

It sounds like you have already made your mind up and in your reply to the last question in your original post, sure you can learn how to do your own dental work, it will take at least 8 years of schooling if you don't have a science degree, if you do then only 4 years. Good luck!

[scarpia]

I have a science degree. I work as a chemist. I only need to know how to do crowns. The lab that makes them does most of the work. Would a lab do work for me if I didn't have a license? All I have to do is send them some impressions, right?

[Wondergirl]

I have a science degree. I work as a chemist. I only need to know how to do crowns.

Would a crown be a worthy construction if made to your specifications, without the material(s) you are allergic to and using other materials that won't irritate your mouth? You don't want crowns that will eventually crumble.

Flossie will know about the licensing, etc.

[flossie]

I don't think you would find a lab to make anything for you with your license as a dentist.
You could go to a dental school, they might be able to help you out. It would be a learning opportunity for any student.

[scarpia]

Would a crown be a worthy construction if made to your specifications, without the material(s) you are allergic to and using other materials that won't irritate your mouth? You don't want crowns that will eventually crumble.

Flossie will know about the licensing, etc.

If I get ivoclar porcelain crowns it should be fine. I have many ivoclar crowns in my mouth and they feel fine. I don't get any taste from them as far as I can tell. The problem is actually getting a dentist to DO THAT. They SAY they will do it then they put something else in - zircon, composite containing acrylic or unglazed ivoclar porcelain. The REALLY frustrating thing is that the original dentist DID put in some good ivoclar porcelain crowns, but her ruined 4 out of the six when he shaved away at the back of them for absolutely NO reason. I'm still kicking myself for opening my mouth when he asked me to.

He put them in and checked the bite with that carbon paper stuff. Then he asked me how the bite felt. I said "fine." Then he said "Let me see." and I opened my mouth. Then the creep shaved away at the back of them, ruining 4 out of the six. When I told him they felt rough now he said that would diminish. It didn't. I went to another dentist but he just told me to go back to the first dentist if I had a problem. He said he wasn't going to interfere with another dentist's work. So afer a month of having that rough porcelain in my mouth I went back and he says " I talked with my lab and it seems that I've forgotten some basic dentistry. I should have polished those." Then he polished them to smooth them out. That helped but I still got a nasty taste from them. The two that he didn't shave feel fine and have absolutely no taste.

[Wondergirl]

Like this? --

Ivoclar Vivadent

[scarpia]

I don't think you would find a lab to make anything for you with your license as a dentist.
You could go to a dental school, they might be able to help you out. It would be a learning opportunity for any student.

I'm having enough trouble with trained professionals. I'm not sure I want to put myself in the hands of some student. What I need to do is check with the dentist's lab to make sure the stuff is REALLY ivoclar porcelain. More specifically ivoclar INLINE porcelain. It is a traditional feldspathic porcelain. I shoud check the lot number and call ivoclar to make sure they sold that lot to the lab too. If they are a well run lab they should have that record. I work in a chemistry lab and we have to write down a record of all materials that come into the lab and their lot numbers.

The problem is that if I do that a dentist is going to think I'm a paranoid nut case and he won't want anything to do with me. Not many or not ANY people really seem to know or care about what materials go in their mouths. I've asked people about their crowns and they have no idea what they are made of. I ask them if it's zircon lava crowns, captek, empress, Inceram, or Procera, but they have no idea. Even many dentists don't know that there is a chemical difference between them. Another problem is that companies don't list all materials in the MSDS. Some are a trade secret and they consider it propraiatory information that they will NOT give to people. I asked 3M about their ketac glass ionomer cement and they told me that.

[flossie]

I'm afraid you said it.

[scarpia]

I just went to the 3M website to look up some MSDS. For Lava crowns they list ceramic powder. That doesn't tell me anything. There are many different chemicals that can go in a ceramic.

[flossie]

Look it scarpia, it seems no matter who tells you what you don't want to believe anything. Why don't you call:
Ivoclar Vivadent Inc.
175 Pineview Drive
Amherst, N.Y. 14228
USA
Tel. +1 800 533 6825
Fax +1 716 691 2285
Yourself. Tell THEM your problem and perhaps they can direct you to a dentist in your town who uses their product.

Obviously there is no one here who can help you. Maybe they can. Good luck!