[mrshull2002]

I've heard quite a lot of opinions on the Christmas Holiday lately. Some want to keep observing it as a Christian Holiday while others want any mention of Jesus Christ out of it. Some just want to celebrate Chris Kringle and have all of the presents while others use it as just a day off from work. Well... I look at it this way. I celebrate Christmas because of our Savior's birth, that is traditionally what the Holiday is about. Yes we give gifts, decorate a tree, have a replica of a Nativity Scene, and eat like there's no tomorrow. I don't have a problem with Santa or the elves if that is what people want, but when you start taking Jesus and putting him in the attic then you get me upset. If people DO NOT want to celebrate Christmas as Christians do, get your own Holiday and leave ours ALONE. Don't take Christ out of Christmas. Send your family/friends/co-workers gifts on New Years Eve/Day. You still get time off from work and you can name it whatever you want. If you don't like the neighbors Nativity Scene, don't look at it. Christians aren't throwing a fit over Halloween or Hannukah. Actually I enjoy all Holidays. You make them what you want in your home and heart. We're sure to be a sad country when we have to be "politically correct" on December 25th so no one's "feelings" get hurt.

[andrewcocke]

My opinion on Christmas:

I tend to agree with you, that the Christ in Christmas has been extensivly attacked over the years. I believe in Christ, and I try to keep it in the Christmas. However I have some unusual views of Christmas and how it should be celebrated publicly.

My dad and I have gotten into some heated debates over this.

Have you ever heard parents say that if you keep complaining about something they are just going to take it all away. Maybe complaining about not having any toys, and threatening to take what they do have to the good will.

First let me start by saying the Chrismtas tree's mistletoe, Santa, Elves, snow, 12 days, etc have noting to do with Christmas. The Christmas story is found in all 4 gospels of the new testament, I have read them all, and I didn't hear a single mention of a Christmas tree.

Our government serves one purpose in theroy, to provide social service to its citizens, including such things as management, maintence of public owned infrastucter, to collect taxes for such projects. It is not the purpose of our government to celebrate Christmas.

Chrismtas was made into a national holiday in 1870. Before then, people worked on Christmas.

Its offends people to see a nativity scene in front of a public works building, but we can have Christmas tree's and candy canes hanging from street lamps. Your tax dollars go to pay for all of that. How is that fair for those who don't celebrate Christmas?

That's like asking Christians to pay for satanic rituals.

I love Christmas as a holiday, and I enjoy candy, tree's evergreens, decorating, and lights like everyone else does... but my bottom line is, if people can't learn to be tolorant of other peoples religions, then I feel Christmas should be a privatly held affair, and not so public as it is today.

To do this would have a spin off effect of reversing the commercialism that surrounds the holiday as it stands. Suddently when lights and santa clauses aren't something you see around every corner, people will do one of two things, they will celebrate Christmas in a manner its supposed to be celebrated, or they won't bother. It will be the end of black Friday.

BTW, Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. And it doesn't snow in the desert.

Before you die hard Christmas warriers race for that disagree button, consider this, when we start allowing religious symbols on public property, where does it stop? If the surpreme court allowed religious symbols on the lawn of a public works building, then what's to stop a candlelit pentagram in October? Or other anti-Christian symbols.

Persoally, Id rather see nothing than to see that. But that's just my two cents.

My final thought, if people can't get along with how to celebrate it, then just leave it out of the public arena all together.

EDIT: I want to reinstante my point for those who got the wrong idea, I am not opposed to decorations, tree's, Jesus, elves, etc. I just feel that if people can't agree on how to celebrate the holiday publicly, then we shouldn't shouldn't celebrate it publicly. Now if walmart or target want to put up decorations, they are private companies, they can do what ever their shareholders allow. Same as if you want to put up lights on your house, you pay your electric bill, its your business. Put a hundred nativity scenes on your front lawn, I don't have a problem with that.

Im just tired of everyone complaining.

I feel this way because this subject litterly depressed me last year. And I almost skipped Christmas this year, in fact, if it wasn't for my 7 year old, then I would. So to help me handle the way people are, I have just developed this "yea whatever" attitude towards Christmas...

[mrshull2002]

Oh boy. Thanks for telling me that His B-day wasn't 12/25 and it doesn't snow in the desert. I was ignorant of those facts. Go burn your pentagram, and whine about your tax dollars, I'll sing Silent Night. I never asked that my tax dollars buy tinsel or a plastic manger, just that I am allowed to purchase it myself. If people don't like the fact that our Forefathers had Christain values then sorry. This country is coming apart because people are choosing to depart from the "old ways" and accept everything else that feels good. Guess I'll be one of the first loud mouthed Jesus freaks they burn in the public square, huh? Light your match.

[valinors_sorrow]

If people don't like the fact that our Forefathers had Christain values then sorry. This country is coming apart because people are choosing to depart from the "old ways" and accept everything else that feels good. Guess I'll be one of the first loud mouthed Jesus freaks they burn in the public square, huh? Light your match.

I love the fact that our forefathers were Christian. I love even more that they had the insight to set up a country where all religions are free to worship - how incredibly big of them. I don't care to burn anything except the bonfire of ignorance and the intolerance it fosters. I am not departing from the old ways but reverting to them when I respect everyone and their choice. Christmas is no doubt a Christian holiday. And so to that end, I wish all Christians a very Merry Christman knowing full well what it means. And to the rest a Merry Christmas as well, since I believe they can be as big about it as anyone else is, including me. No need to fight about anything here really as long as I stick to what I do as good for me and you stick to what you do as good for you - then its all good! :)

[andrewcocke]

Uaghh... (rubs head)

See, nobody gets it... I guess this is just one of those ideas that I should just keep to myself.
Now Im being accused of a satanist and burning pentagrams. Isn't this typical of modern society.

Im not even going to comment...

EDIT: Had a big ol'e reply set up, but decided it wasn't worth it, I know where this is going. And Im on the losing end.

Merry Christmas

[JoeCanada76]

Mrshull2002,

I agree with you. I personally feel that the Christmas holiday is mostly now a get rich holiday for big business. It is all about the almighty buck and people getting caught up into things that are not really important. Now that I am older. All this fuss and bust about buying gifts and spending all this money and people stuffing themselves in stores that would take you hours to just get through the line or hear about people shooting, murdering, stealing from others just to get stuff. North Americans, are considered to be God obeying, strict religious followers who do everything according to the word of God. I do not know but I do not think God had any of this in mind. I for one know that celebrating in different times, winter time. We do know that Jesus was not born in the winter time. We do know the celebrations are for families to get together. Thankful of Jesus birth and celebrate his life. What are the most of us doing. Worshipping money and objects.

It is a shame.

Joe

P.S. The only thing now is what to do with a new little baby. Have a few gifts and family visiting. What kind of observances will we have. Which ones will we keep and not keep. I want to teach our baby what is important and what is not important.

[J_9]

One thing we do here is we ALWAYS place a gift under the tree for Baby Jesus.

When our daughter was 4 she carried a blanket, that year she wrapped it up and placed it under the tree so Santa could give it to Baby Jesus. This year our son is 4 and he will be doing the same.

Our gifts are few and small. The kids usually get one big gift and a few smaller ones. The rest are homemade. Christmas is more about family and love, not about keeping up with the Jonses.

I was taught in my Survey of World Religions class that the "rituals" of Christmas go back to paganistic rituals. The wreath is a symbol of the circle of the seasons, the candles represent light, since it tends to be darker longer in the winter, etc. (Don't know how y'all feel about this, but this is what my professor taught).

[mrshull2002]

This was emailed to me from Pastor Rod Parsely's Center for Moral Clarity:

Seattle's 'War on Christmas' an Unnecessary Skirmish

The Grinch didn't steal Christmas from travelers arriving and departing through the Seattle-Tacoma Airport after all. The week started with another depressing story about removing a traditional Christmas symbol from a public place. Just like the Dr. Seuss tale, though, the saga in Seattle had a happy ending.

Even though such battles over Christmas are completely unnecessary, two powerful emotions fuel them every year: fear and love. Authorities answering to the secular culture fear lawsuits, so they quickly acquiesce and push Christmas in the closet at the feeblest threat.

Christians, on the other hand, love their Lord, Jesus Christ. Those who refused to be silent in Seattle made the difference.

"Christians must not silently watch and do nothing as the birth of Christ and the celebration of his life are minimized and pushed into the obscure corners of American culture," said Pastor Rod Parsley, founder and president of the Center for Moral Clarity.

This particular drama began when the Port of Seattle was asked to display an eight-foot menorah, giving comparable recognition to the Jewish celebration of Hanukkah. Rather than accommodate that request, which may have led to requests from other religious faiths observing holy days at this time of the year, airport authorities decided that the trees had to be removed.

Removing the Christmas trees may have seemed like the easy way out at the time. Angry Christians proved otherwise. The airport's tradition had been in place
for more than 25 years, with a tree placed over each of the 15 airport entrances.

This year, a Seattle rabbi - in conjunction with the Central Organization for Jewish Learning - reportedly threatened a lawsuit. Seattle residents didn't take the news very well. By 9 p.m. Sunday, the Web site for the Seattle Times had received about 800 comments to a story that had topped the front page of the print edition, and rightly so. The celebration of Christianity's beginning should not be held hostage by timid public officials who cower rather than defend the principle at stake.

It is pleasing to God when Christians resist efforts to accommodate the secular culture by diluting the celebration of Christmas. The trees didn't have to go. In fact, Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky said he was "devastated, shocked and appalled" that the airport's reaction was so drastic.

Airport administrators said that, by removing the trees, they hoped to stave off this decision until after the holidays. Removing the trees was a decision and a statement about the significance of religious tradition. Before the complaint was launched, the airport didn't have a policy regarding Christmas trees because no one had made an issue of it before.

The mere threat of a lawsuit apparently is all it takes to scare public authorities, who lack the faith or will to defend Christianity. The roots of Christmas traditions trace back to the founding of this nation. At this rate, in another generation, they will be but a memory of what once was.

Officials in Seattle made a mistake by removing the trees, but at least arrived at the correct outcome by putting them back in their proper place. America is based on religious freedom, and the expression of religion should not be removed from public places simply to save cowards the inconvenience of defending Christians' 1st Amendment rights.

[valinors_sorrow]

I can't help wondering what would have happened had the menorah been displayed? Would it really amount to the problem they say it would?
This way we'll never know. Sigh. Surely if there was a little room in the stable for the birth of a very special child, there could have been a little room at an airport too. Oh well.

Maybe one day we'll be enlightened enough to have formed ecumenical councils to oversee the decisions of public place decorations that seem fair to everyone. Then nobody has to be a bah humbug about it.

[JoeCanada76]

Get this in Toronto Ontario Canada, There was a judge at a courthouse that banned the tree that was there because it might offend somebody that was not christian. The majority of people of Christian faith and other faiths actually said this judge had no right to order the tree to be put in a different place, sort of out of the way. The judge is so intolerant. We are now being told that we can not have certain symbols or sayings or celebrations because it might offend somebody. You would think in a rich multiculture city like Toronto that we would all respect each others celebrations and in brace each others celebrations. Like many call ins to a radio station, people from other countries when they came to this country they new that Canada is known to be rich with Christianity.

Joe

[susancalen]

Maybe one day we'll be enlightened enough to have formed ecumenical councils to oversee the decisions of public place decorations that seem fair to everyone. Then nobody has to be a bah humbug about it.

I would just use Hanukkah decorations with a Christmas theme like this one Festival Of Lights 12 Ft Light Set, Save 7% on Festival Of Lights12 Ft Light Set by Rite Lite and combine it together with Christmas decorations. This will probably satisfy all people. They might also want to put a menorah like this one, a menorah that has a Christmas theme Menorahs, Jewish Menorah, Electric Menorahs, Silver Menorahs, Hanukkah Menorahs Believe it or not? There are menorahs that have a Hanukkah and Christmas theme. This will make both sides happy. And then put up a few Christmas trees with Hanukkah ornaments in theme and you just got all people happy!