[JudyKayTee]

I have found that in times of tragedy and/or shock people have no memory of what they said, who they talked to, how the conversation went. Many times a person will insist the Police are lying, they never said this or that - and then the witnesses have total recall and it did happen.

Not saying this is the case but until the hearing no one knows what anyone said or did 100%.

[thisisit]

Hi JudyKT, That is so true. I'm just going on what I remember and I know I was extremely upset. I called 2 police departments this morning to find out if a written report was made that night. The first one told me I could find that information out from the coroner's office. So I called the Township Police, my son's house was right on the line for Sylvania Township. Toledo takes one side of the street and the Township takes the other side. They told me they were there that night and yes, they made a police report and I can come pick up a copy at no charge. So, that's a beginning.

[DrBill100]

They told me they were there that night and yes, they made a police report and I can come pick up a copy at no charge. So, that's a beginning.

That's good. If you can, from this point forward make brief notes of any contacts you make with date and time. Doesn't need to be extensive just name, subject, date and time. It helps piece everything together and prevents redundancy.

[excon]

It helps piece everything together and prevents redundancy.

Hello again, Dr:

It's also good stuff in court. Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Yes, I would keep notes of who, when, how. It may still boil down to your word against their word but it's - as DrBill verified - a start.

On a personal note - I have almost no recollection of the night my husband died. I drove home from the hospital and remember absolutely nothing of the trip. I think your mind shuts down as a defense mechanism. I still can't believe they allowed me to leave, alone, and drive home - some 45 minutes!

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone's memory is somewhat clouded - but you're working your way through that.

[tickle]

Its evident that procedures are quite different in the US then in Canada. If a person dies at home, say of a massive heart attack there is no autopsy done, but if a person dies on the street, in a store, or somewhere other then his residence, an autopsy is done. I have first hand seat in these situations, although I can't pronounce and have to assign a nurse, some of my clients have died over the years while I am in attendance; as they are assigned palliative to me.

I am not belitting your situation, this, just pointing this out. You obviously have a coroner who needs a heads up, or a wack upside the head. Something is definitely wrong in your situation.

I am so sorry for your situation, my heart goes out to you my dear.

Tick

[thisisit]

I got the police report, once again they were very nice to me. The police report indicates that his girlfriend told the police that my son had a seizure disorder and brain tumor, and provided the name and phone number of his nuerologist. The police report also states that the coroner's investigator took possession his body for an autopsy and that his medicine bottles were also handed over to the transportation unit.

I'd like to talk to his doctor too, but can the doctor talk to me, would that violate HIPAA law?

[excon]

would that violate HIPAA law?

Hello again, this:

No. HIPAA applies to live persons.

excon

[DrBill100]

I'd like to talk to his doctor too, but can the doctor talk to me, would that violate HIPAA law?

I think it would probably be helpful from several standpoints to talk with his doctor. Please be careful not to mention your dissatisfaction with the coroner.

Does the police report mention details of the physical environment, location, bathroom, etc

[DrBill100]

HIPAA applies to live persons.

excon

This is an additive question... I read through part of HIPAA and it looks like it only applies to the electronic transfer of records. Are you up on that? I know confidentiality applies in the doctor/pt relationship regardless, so is HIPAA simply an electronic record extension?

[J_9]

so is HIPAA simply an electronic record extension?

No, HIPAA does not only apply to electronic record extensions. I'll give you an example:

Recently my father-in-law was in the hospital I work for. I was off duty at the time, so I called the hospital and was talking to a friend of mine who worked on his unit. I then asked about his condition and she reminded me that it was against HIPAA to discuss his condition as I was not his treating nurse.

So, HIPAA is verbal as well as electronic.

[DrBill100]

No, HIPAA does not only apply to electronic record extensions. I'll give you an example:


So, HIPAA is verbal as well as electronic.

Right you are. On review, "any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral" I must have been reading my fax machine instructions.

That must pose a few problems for residents and nurses in relation to friends and relatives?

[J_9]

Right you are. On review, "any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral" I must have been reading my fax machine instructions.

That must pose a few problems for residents and nurses in relation to friends and relatives?

You always make me laugh.

Yes, it can pose problems. I live in a VERY small community, and when someone has a baby it's big news. Well, I deliver babies, it gets tough when people ask me about my patients and their babies. They just don't understand that I'm not allowed to talk about it.

[thisisit]

I think it would probably be helpful from several standpoints to talk with his doctor. Please be careful not to mention your dissatisfaction with the coroner.

Does the police report mention details of the physical environment, location, bathroom, etc

Good thinking! What I am mainly interested in finding out is, what information was shared with the coroner's office, and WHEN was it shared, And what was the latest status of my son's health. He saw the doctor the day before he died. Can you think of anything else I should ask the doctor?

[DrBill100]

Good thinking! What I am mainly interested in finding out is, what information was shared with the coroner's office, and WHEN was it shared, And what was the latest status of my son's health. He saw the doctor the day before he died. Can you think of anything else I should ask the doctor?

Your interest is in determining what happened to your son. The neurologist is the only person in the world that can even come close providing insight, at this point. Satisfy that need first.

I wouldn't mention autopsy at all. You can mention their finding "natural causes" or the "Sudden Unexpected Death" routine but explain that that doesn't answer your questions. Maybe he'll bring up autopsy and it's even possible that the neurologist could have told them there was no need for an autopsy, believing he was helping. But it could also be that they didn't contact him until days later.

As I recall you have a background in medicine so you'll probably benefit from what information he provides. My main thought is benefit to you at this point. The good Dr. will be of little use in dealing with the coroner except for the information you obtain at this meeting. There is extreme reluctance to testify (or provide adverse information) against other doctors and they are useless as forced "subpoenaed" witnesses.

[thisisit]

Your interest is in determining what happened to your son. The neurologist is the only person in the world that can even come close providing insight, at this point. Satisfy that need first.

I wouldn't mention autopsy at all. You can mention their finding "natural causes" or the "Sudden Unexpected Death" routine but explain that that doesn't answer your questions. Maybe he'll bring up autopsy and it's even possible that the neurologist could have told them there was no need for an autopsy, believing he was helping. But it could also be that they didn't contact him until days later.

As I recall you have a background in medicine so you'll probably benefit from what information he provides. My main thought is benefit to you at this point. The good Dr. will be of little use in dealing with the coroner except for the information you obtain at this meeting. There is extreme reluctance to testify (or provide adverse information) against other doctors and they are useless as forced "subpoenaed" witnesses.

I remember learning about the code of silence as a student nurse.

I had gone to a handful of appointments with my son and I was pretty tough with the doctor when my son was newly diagnosed. I impressed upon him how important it was to me that my son's doctor seriously cared for him and that he knew what he was doing.

[cdad]

First off Im sorry for your loss. Id also like to state that in many places there are rules regarding autopsy. Mainly it has to do with the last doctors visit and a timeline. So it is possible that the coroner did skip something very important. For that you would have to know the rules of the local area. Being under a doctors care may release the autopsy from being done. But either way you are owed an explination.

@-->-----

[thisisit]

I talked to my son's nuerologist today. He was shocked and saddened by my son's death. He told me that my son's seizure disorder was stable and he had not had another seizure since he was hospitalized in Oct. 09. I asked him if he spoke to the coroner and he said yes, he did and he told the coroner that it was his opinion that Nathan needed a full autopsy because his death was not expected and his health issue was stable. I'm so upset about this. His doctor was so nice to me. He was upset that a conclusion as to the cause of death was made without an autopsy.

[DrBill100]

That is indeed distressing news from the standpoint of understanding the circumstances surrounding your sons death. It also has direct implications in relation to the coroner's decision as they acted contrary to the advice of the attending physician whom had examined your son within one day of death. Procedurally, that is very unusual.

[thisisit]

I don't want to talk to my lawyer until after I have my appointment with the coroner, because I don't want to prevent the coroner from saying anything to me. I did not have to bring up the autopsy with my son's doctor, he asked me what the autopsy showed. When I told him there was no autopsy, and I read what the piece of paper I have says, he was shocked. He was also very surprised that it took almost 2 months to get a none autopsy report. He repeated to me more than once that he told the coroner that it was his opinion that my son needed a full autopsy. He told me it is not unheard of that people with seizures have sudden unexplained death, but that usually is the case when seizures are not under control.