[BabiixG]

I didn't say I believed both I said I believe in afterlife and how you live your life dependson what life you have after you die.. I do not believe we die only once But I don't deny that there is a God because the universe wasn't magically created by nothing

[Kitkat22]

I didn't say i believed both i said i believe in afterlife and how you live your life dependson what life you have after you die..I do not believe we die only once But i don't deny that there is a God becuase the universe wasn't magically created by nothing

God knows all our hearts. I won't judge anyone. It's up to God to do that. I wish all of you peace in your heart and happiness.

[Donna Mae II]

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Matthew 7:13-14

You might want to read 2 Peter chapter 2.

[classyT]

All:

Here is the thing, either what Jesus said was true or it was a big fat hairy lie. In regards to what Donna Mae posted :
John 14:6.

I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father but by me.

Jesus said it. So... is it true? That is my question? Is it really true. Are we deceiving ourselves when we think there is any other way?

There are people in this thread who are sweet and sincere. What I need to know is: Am I the one in deception thinking HE is the only way to the father or are THEY in deception. Because I don't see how there is a middle ground. What is everyone basing there beliefs on? Just what you THINK would be the way to heaven? OR what feels right? What if you are wrong?

Was Jesus a liar? Why would he say something like that if it weren't true. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Aurora_Bell]

I think religion is open for interpretation. I just can't fathom there being one way. Look at the way the "rules" have changed over time. I think no one will really know until the time comes.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Jesus a liar, again, I think there is too much open for interpretation.

Be a good person, follow the Golden Rule, play nice and be fair, that's how I think you will get in heaven. One thing about God, who ever he is, universally he is loving, right? I think as long as you believe in something, just believing there is a higher power, makes you one step closer to Heaven. What ever, and where ever that may be.

[BabiixG]

I agree with Aurora she put it into way better words than me ! It told me to spread reputation though. Whatever our beliefs God knows if we are good people. If there is a Hell I don't think anyone who is a good person and treats others kindly and if they have a good heart will go there just for the simple fact that they have different beliefs.

[Kitkat22]

I think religion is open for interpretation. I just can't fathom there being one way. Look at the way the "rules" have changed over time. I think no one will really know until the time comes.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Jesus a liar, again, I think there is too much open for interpretation.

Be a good person, follow the Golden Rule, play nice and be fair, that's how I think you will get in heaven. One thing about God, who ever he is, universally he is loving, right? I think as long as you believe in something, just believing there is a higher power, makes you one step closer to Heaven. What ever, and where ever that may be.

I know the way to heaven is through the blood of Jesus Christ. It's not uncommon to doubt, but if Satan can keep you in that valley of self doubt and second guessing than you cannot be an effective Christian. We all have questioned our beliefs at one time or the other. Jesus is the light of the world and I believe he is the only way to heaven.

I know people who are the kindest people in the world, yet they lack salvation. Religious and being in the Church is not salvation. I heard a pastor give a sermon on the subject of; Are you truly saved? Do you have only a form of Godliness? Being saved is repenting and trying your best to live as close to God as you can.

Repenting is being sorry for the life of sin you have led and truly giving up the worldly ungodly things we done before. I know my redeemer liveth, there is no question in my mind that someday or night the trumpet of the Lord will sound and we will be going home. I can't wait.

[classyT]

Bella,

You are a sweetie and I am sure if we did a checklist on the worst sinner... mine would be far more lengthy than yours. Sad but true, you have called yourself a sinner several times and in several threads. I'm just saying... so am I... so is everyone.

I don't know though guys. The Bible says over and over in different ways that all of our righteousness are as filthy rags. God's standard of a good heart and our standard are different.

Bablix,

What if you are wrong? I'm just asking because if there really is a hell and people DO go there, I just want to make sure I know the directions. I don't want to base anything on just my own thoughts or feelings. I want to dig and find out the truth. Reason says.. there has to be different ways to get to heaven but I have tried to find that in the Bible and I cannot.

I have so many friends and family who do not believe the Bible. They say it is just a book written by men. IF there is a God, they are banking on God being fair and just. But if Jesus was really God's son and he came and died for us if we reject him for a better way and God sends us to hell, does that make him unfair? Any thought?


I know one thing the Bible does say.in the OT in the book of Judges... it says everyone was doing what they thought was right in their own eyes :

Judges 21: 25... every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Incidentally, God wasn't very happy about it either.

Do you think it is the same as today? Do you think that is what people do, they create what is the best fit for them. Hheath said she was raised Christian but ended up in another faith because it suited her better. Do we get that choice? I'm just asking... I really want to know...

Dave,

You said some things were lost in translating the bible... I'd consider you an expert on that topic... how can we really know what the Bible says has hasn't been completely lost in translation? It is a fair question.

[Kitkat22]

Bella,

you are a sweetie and I am sure if we did a checklist on the worst sinner...mine would be far more lengthy than yours. Sad but true, you have called yourself a sinner several times and in several threads. I'm just saying...so am I...so is everyone.

I don't know though guys. The Bible says over and over in different ways that all of our righteousness are as filthy rags. God's standard of a good heart and our standard are different.

Bablix,

What if you are wrong? I'm just asking because if there really is a hell and people DO go there, I just want to make sure I know the directions. I don't want to base anything on just my own thoughts or feelings. I want to dig and find out the truth. Reason says..there has to be different ways to get to heaven but I have tried to find that in the Bible and I cannot.

I have so many freinds and family who do not believe the Bible. They say it is just a book written by men. IF there is a God, they are banking on God being fair and just. But if Jesus was really God's son and he came and died for us if we reject him for a better way and God sends us to hell, does that make him unfair? any thought?


I know one thing the Bible does say.in the OT in the book of Judges...it says everyone was doing what they thought was right in their own eyes :

Judges 21: 25 .....every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Incidently, God wasn't very happy about it either.

do you think that is the same as today? do you think that is what people do, they create what is the best fit for them. Hheath said she was raised Christian but ended up in another faith because it suited her better. do we get that choice? I'm just asking....i really want to know...

Dave,

you said some things were lost in tranlsation in the bible...I'd consider you an expert on that topic...how can we really know what the Bible says has hasn't been completely lost in translation? It is a fair question.

Faith... we take the word of God as being true... by faith. By his stripes we are healed. That means we are his. It doesn't mean we aren't going
To sin, because we are, we are human. God gives us mercy.. if he gave us justice ,what we deserved we would all be in big trouble.

"What can wash away my sins? Nothing but the blood of Jesus".

[classyT]

Good question. I would assume it means he went to hell, but it could have to do with his being "displaced" as one of the twelve, as hinted at in the Psalms quotes that Peter mentioned in some of the previous verses. It doesn't necessarily specify that he went to "his own place" after he died; the expression that the KJV translates "by transgression fell" basically means "he turned away from it," so "his own place" could just mean "a position outside of the apostolic circle that he used to be part of." I sure wouldn't go to the stake for that idea, though.

Interesting question!

Maybe. I don't know I have always wondered about what "his own place" meant. And another thing regarding Judas... why is he and the man of sin or the antichrist called the son of perdition? They are the only ones I know of referred to the same way. Wonder if we are missing something important there.

[dwashbur]

Dave,

you said some things were lost in translating the bible...I'd consider you an expert on that topic...how can we really know what the Bible says has hasn't been completely lost in translation? It is a fair question.

Wow, how much time and bandwidth do we have? First, I don't recall actually saying some things were "lost." There are things that are hard to translate because of cultural differences and things like that, and there are words and phrases, especially in the Old Testament, that we're not sure of their meaning, but that's why study and research goes on. If we had all the answers my life, for one, would be even duller than it already is.

I'll focus on the New Testament for the sake of space. First, we know what 99 44/100% of it reads, because we have copies upon copies upon copies from as far back as the second century and we have the tools and the science to sort through them. So we know the Greek text we have is a faithful representation of what the apostles and their companions actually wrote.

Second, we know more about the actual Greek language used in the New Testament than we do about any other ancient language, with the possible exception of Latin (I'm not sure about that; Latin isn't within my bailiwick). One thing that helped us immensely was the discovery of some ancient garbage dumps. Yes, you read that right. Garbage dumps. Turns out people took their letters, bills of sale, grocery lists, school notes, and what-have-you and threw them away when they were done with them. Those documents from the "regular people" of the New Testament era tell us a LOT about the language they used. Once upon a time, before these discoveries, we knew that the Greek of the New Testament was very different from that of the "Attic" writers like Plato and the others; it was assumed that, because it was the Bible, that Greek was some kind of "sacred" language created especially for the holy books. Wrong! It was the "gutter" language of the common people.
We now call it Koine Greek, "Koine" being the Greek word for "common." It's like the difference between the English you might read in the Congressional Record and the English you might read in the note you write to yourself as a reminder. From those documents found in the ancient trash, nearly all written on papyrus and preserved in the deserts of Egypt, we learned what Koine Greek actually is and got a much better understanding of how it works.

The biggest problem we have today isn't with the Greek text, it's with our English. Like you, I grew up with the KJV and did most of my memorization in it. But it's not written in English any more. People coming at it for the first time get lost easily because it's a foreign language. English has changed so much in the last 400 years that even words like "breakfast" have undergone drastic changes in meaning just within my lifetime. That's why we keep having to come up with new translations, not because the Bible has changed, but because we have.

The good news is, even folks who don't read Greek (i.e. aren't major geeks like me; you have to be more than a little warped to get into it as much as I have!) can know with a high degree of certainty what the Bible says, because each translation gives a little more nuance of meaning, gives a little more insight, takes advantage of new discoveries, and all the rest. For someone who's new to the Bible I tend to recommend The Message, because it's a faithful rendering and gets the major points across in language that's accessible to just about any reading level. For deeper study, I like to compare the NIV and the NASB. I have some problems with translations like the Amplified and Wuest's Expanded Translation, because they tend to over-translate; they find meanings in words and phrases that aren't really there. The NRSV is okay, though it tries a little too hard to please everyone. There are a couple of newer ones that have come out recently, but I haven't had a chance to look at them yet so I can't comment.

Anyway, a combination of ongoing increase of knowledge about the language, careful work in rendering it as faithfully as possible into English, knowing the history of the text itself and how it came to us and how accurate it is, all work together to give us a Bible that we can trust to tell us what the writers wrote.

Believe it or not, that's the short version!

[dwashbur]

I wouldn't go so far as to call Jesus a liar, again, I think there is too much open for interpretation.

He said "I am the way...NO ONE comes to the father except through me." How is that "open for interpretation"? Either he was right or he wasn't. It's like saying "red is red." Either it is or it isn't; it's not a matter of interpretation. Again, a thing can't be X and not-X at the same time.

[hheath541]

Hheath said she was raised Christian but ended up in another faith because it suited her better. do we get that choice? I'm just asking....i really want to know...

One of the most basic teachings of christianity is that god gave mankind freedom of choice. By that reasoning, I have the right to choose not to believe in him.

I spent 18 years of my life as a christian. Then I ended up having to reevaluate some major parts of my life. That eventually led me to reexamine my religion. I found out that I was only christian because people told me I should be. I didn't actually believe a lot of the teachings.

So, I went on a search for a religion I could believe in. I closely examined all the beliefs I already held true. Then I researched religions until I finally found one that felt right for me.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I just don't think there is ONE religion that's right for everyone. The way I see it, there are three possibilities for the afterlife. Either I die and find myself going to the afterlife of my current religion, the one I was raised in, or one unrelated to either. Regardless of the outcome, I'll be dead and I see no reason to worry myself about it now.

[Aurora_Bell]

Bella,
you have called yourself a sinner several times and in several threads. I'm just saying...so am I...so is everyone.

Really? I don't remember this...

To err is human to forgive is Godly. All humans sin. But God forgives. Believe what you will. Every one takes what they want to hear.

[Aurora_Bell]

He said "I am the way...NO ONE comes to the father except through me." How is that "open for interpretation"? Either he was right or he wasn't. It's like saying "red is red." Either it is or it isn't; it's not a matter of interpretation. Again, a thing can't be X and not-X at the same time.

Okay so if I said brick red was the only red would you agree?

How can you be so sure YOUR God is the only one? Every one thinks THEIR God is the only one. So who is right?

[dwashbur]

Okay so if I said brick red was the only red would you agree?

That's not what you're saying, though. You're saying brick red is blue.

How can you be so sure YOUR God is the only one? Every one thinks THEIR God is the only one. So who is right?

How many of them rose from death under their own power? That's the difference. Jesus said he was/is the only way. Again, either he is or he isn't; there's no middle ground where he is for some but not for others. The word "only" eliminates that possibility. So how can we tell? That's where the resurrection comes in. We have historical verification that it happened; it's not a legend, not a tall tale, not a myth. We have it from the pens of folks who were there and saw it happen. None of the others have that kind of backing. That's why I often say there are two things I know for sure: there is a God, and Jesus rose from the dead. Most everything else is negotiable, but the resurrection of Jesus validates his claims. So when he says "I am the only way" I say "yes, sir."

[Aurora_Bell]

That's not what you're saying, though. You're saying brick red is blue.

I don't have much time so I can only respond to this. Not once did I say that red was blue. (you know what I mean, I never once specified a specific colour to "red") I said it was open for interpretation. SO if I see the colour as red, you see it as fuchsia, it's open.

I am not saying that it is ANY one colour, I am saying we all see things in different lights. Open for interpretation.

Okay maybe a bad analogy, but it's the best I have right now :)

[Aurora_Bell]

And I don't think this is a discussion if Jesus is real, because I sure as heck don't doubt him. I don't doubt or disbelieve in anyone's religion.

[hheath541]

That's not what you're saying, though. You're saying brick red is blue.



How many of them rose from death under their own power? That's the difference. Jesus said he was/is the only way. Again, either he is or he isn't; there's no middle ground where he is for some but not for others. The word "only" eliminates that possibility. So how can we tell? That's where the resurrection comes in. We have historical verification that it happened; it's not a legend, not a tall tale, not a myth. We have it from the pens of folks who were there and saw it happen. None of the others have that kind of backing. That's why I often say there are two things I know for sure: there is a God, and Jesus rose from the dead. Most everything else is negotiable, but the resurrection of Jesus validates his claims. So when he says "I am the only way" I say "yes, sir."

jesus only said that believing in him is the only way to get to the christian god. He didn't say that he is the only way to get to ANY god.

I don't need jesus to get to my 'god.'

I'm not saying jesus never lived, or isn't the son of the christian god. I think he did live, and I have no opinion on the other. I will even admit that his teachings have great value. I've never once said that christianity is wrong, just that it's not right for me.

[dwashbur]

jesus only said that believing in him is the only way to get to the christian god. he didn't say that he is the only way to get to ANY god.

Um, you are aware that the Bible teaches there's only one, right? Jesus also taught that there's only one God. It's a consistent theme, and since his resurrection validates his words, it also validates his teaching that there's only one God. So since there's only one, yes, Jesus did say he's the only way to get to ANY god.