[havanail]

Kenmore series 80, model 110-25842400, and serial number CR3353550 washing machine. I hadn't heard the machine work before the problem, and my wife said it was not working right (would fill with water and would not agitate or spin). I checked and I could hear the motor running but it was not doing agitate or spin, I removed the pump and motor and found the drive coupler was broken so I replaced that and then run a test wash. It filled with water and run the wash agitate perfectly. It should have then paused to reverse the motor, and then do neutral drain, pause and then spin while pumping the rest of the spin water. Instead it just reversed the motor quickly and then started to run in a very slow spin and pumping water for about a minute and a half making a rapid clicking noise and then the clicking would stop and it would then spin up to correct speed and finish pumping water and spin correctly. Rinse would start the same way, loading water and doing rinse agitate correctly, but finishing that cycle it again quickly started spinning very slowly and pumping out water for about a minute and a half and then stopped clicking and sped up to normal spin cycle speed and finished correctly with proper water removal with clothes. I couldn't tell where the noise was coming from, so I removed the agitator and again tested, and the noise was coming from below the tub so I removed the pump and tested the cycles and the clicking noise was coming from the motor, and there was a slight jerk in the motor with every click and it would do this about a minute and a half and sounding like a relay trying to start the motor while it was running slow, and then stopped the clicking and sped up to spin speed. Clutch and brake appeared to be working correctly. Could this be the timer or the transmission or the motor, and is there any way to test without just changing parts until it works correctly (On forums I have been told it is the motor shorted out, needed the neutral drain kit installed in the transmission, or the timer is defective)? Thanks.

[applguy]

Yes, there is a way to test without replacing parts, although it requires a certain amount of luck. You need a volt/ohm meter, and the ability to understand the wiring schematic on the tech sheet within the control panel. You need to figure out which wires carry the voltage to the run winding of the motor (typically labeled with speed information, since the start winding is the same for all speeds). Then, check to see if you have the correct voltage on the run winding at the motor when it is not running properly. You're getting varied responses, because your question starts be describing a diagnosis, not a problem, leaving people to assume things that may or may not be true. For this condition, we need to isolate why the motor switch is cycling rapidly before even thinking about neutral drain functions. Neutral drain function is aborted when the motor stops or slows down. Since the motor isn't jumping right up to full speed when the transmission is set for neutral drain, that function isn't going to work. As I said, we need to solve the motor problem first, then see if the neutral drain problem actually exists. Most of the time, I am unable to verify without any doubt that a timer has failed (unless its dead). Most of the time, its an educated guess based on what I see and what the customer's description of the problem is. I am also usually right. Unfortunately, no person here can give you definitive solutions for appliance failures. Ultimately it is up to your ability to understand the theory of operation of the machine and your ability to apply that knowledge. I hope I have provided some help to you... Good luck.

[havanail]

There is no tech sheet within the control panel so no help there. I'm getting varied responses because these problems are had to diagnose without having the washer present for testing, not because the post is a diagnosis rather than a problem, and not leaving people to assume things that may or may not be true. I know that posts with limited information about the problem will lead to some responses that are far from the actual problem, and I have had techs praise me for giving a good and thorough explanation of the problem which in their opinion helps them to give a more informed reply. I do have the ability to understand the theory of operation of the machine, and the ability to apply that information. The things that I know: the motor quickly goes to run speed correctly when the wash cycle and rinse cycle begins lessens the possibility that it is the motor centrifugal switch or run windings but does not exclude the motor as the problem. The machine has a speed selector switch and was tested on all speed selections and problem still exists but that does not exclude the speed selection switch as the problem. Timer could be sending commands in improper sequence or multiple commands at once or leaving out a function completely (no smoking gun here). Transmission could be failing to shift to neutral but without other problems present it should be able to drain water and spin without neutral (techs have told me early direct drive machines did not do a neutral drain but that function was added to reduce strain on the motor and drive coupler). Could be the microcomputer, but it shows no obvious damage but that is no guarantee it's OK. As repairs can quickly exceed the value of the machine, probably the best suggestion received is to buy the cheapest model available and just replace the machine when it fails.