[hheath541]

I just talked to both vets' office in town. One told me that kittens need to be at least 12 weeks to get the rabies shots. The other told me they need to be 16 weeks. That's a huge difference.

Is one more right than the other? Is there danger in getting a cat it's rabies shot at 12 weeks?

I'd like to try to get my kittens fixed before finding them homes. It's just that the programs in this area require a cat to have it's rabies shots before they'll fix them. I'm not sure I can afford to keep them for an extra 2-3 months while I'm waiting for them to be old enough to get the rabies shot, then to get fixed and heal afterward. Especially if they should be 16 weeks before getting the rabies shot.

On the other hand, I don't to get them the shot too young and risk problems that way. I'm just trying to do the best I can for my babies.

[Lucky098]

Rabies at 6 months. There is no need to give a rabies shot to an animal that young. 6 months is a good age. Most owners can opt to have the rabies shot, along with the micro chipping at time of spay/neuter. A lot of vet clinics will discount the shots when given at time of spay/neuter.

Giving shots at a young age can also kill the immune system. Vets push the vaccines because its major mark up and is actually making money for the clinic. Just get the shots approriate for age (not aware what cats are) and leave it at that. Rabies at 6 months. Nothing more after that for the next year. Let that cat gain an immune system!

Here's an interesting article about vaccines.. You may want to read it! I posted it on AMHD, but the research was actually done by a world-renouwn vet school in my state (CSU). I thought it was interesting.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/r...no-443104.html

[Lucky098]

Also! I'm not one for infant spay/neuter. The animal never gets to develop the hormones needed to let the animal know its either a boy or a girl. Very strange behaviors come from infant spay/neuter.

What you could try is to keep in contact with the new owners. Hound them to get the spay/neuter done. Find a discount clinic in your area and suggest people to go there.

I'm in rescue, a lot of our baby puppies under 6 months go out not spayed/neutered... They go out on contract along with a $100 deposit. If the pup isn't fixed by the 6 month mark, the check gets cashed, and a call is made. You could try writing up a contract of some kind stating that. You could also ask for a $50 deposit that will be returned once proof of spay/neuter is provided.

Not every contract needs to be written by a lawyer. If you don't feel comfortable doing it by yourself, however, you can always contact a local rescue and see if they can help you out.

[hheath541]

Thanks for the info.

Why do you think they told me 12 and 16 weeks? That's a ways off from 6 months.

The vets here require the rabies shot before fixing the animal. It would cost me nearly $50 for each kitten just to get the rabies shot. Add that to the $30-$40 to get them fixed, and it's a lot of money.

Unfortunately, there's no way I can afford to keep them until they're six months old AND afford to get them shots and fixed. I MIGHT be able to do one, but not both.

I also live in a very low-income area with few resources for animals. This is the county seat, and there are only two vets in the city, and only a few more in the rest of the county. There are no discount clinics in the county. There's a program that will fix cats for free, but they only take ferals, and it's on a first-come-first-serve basis.

Because this is such a poor area, no one is going to be willing to pay for a cat when they can get one for free. Very few people here care about getting their animals vet care, or fixed.

I plan on doing everything I can to make sure they get good homes. It's just that, sadly, I will have to find them homes of one kind or the other, simply because I can't afford to keep them.

There aren't any cat rescues in the county. There just isn't the funding. The pound put down all of their cats last year, no matter how long they'd been there, so they could clear all the cages for new animals. People put their cats outside rather than try to find homes for them.

I wish I could keep all of them. I wish I could afford to give them homes and get them all the vet care they need. It's just not financially possible right now.

I'll be getting mommy fixed this summer, after the babies are fully weaned. The two kittens I'm keeping will get fixed as I have the money.

I'm sorry for being so long-winded. I'm tired and I think it's made me emotional and rather verbose.

[Wondergirl]

Around here kittens are neutered as young as 6-8 weeks, but they are ferals that will end up living outdoors and would just produce more kittens. Is there any way to know if adopters will keep the kittens indoors? The rabies shot is most important if the kitten goes outside.

It scares me a bit to think adopters might just send the kittens outdoors without thinking twice about it and not really care about neutering or rabies shots.

Did you find out the cost for spaying or castrating?

The vet office said "at least" so many weeks, like the absolutely minimum age.

[hheath541]

There's a program that does males for $30 and females for $40. I just have to show proof that I'm on section 8. getting the rabies shot before I can get them fixed will cost more than actually getting them fixed.

Question about deworming:
Do ALL kittens end up with worms?

I'm not worried about deworming them. In fact, I already got the medicine for the first round in a little over a week.

I'm just wondering if all kittens end up with worms, even if there's no evidence of them in the mother. I saw several vet sites that recommend it as a curative and preventative measure, but none of them explained if all kittens actually get worms or not.

[Wondergirl]

there's a program that does males for $30 and females for $40. i just have to show proof that i'm on section 8. getting the rabies shot before i can get them fixed will cost more than actually getting them fixed.

question about deworming:
do ALL kittens end up with worms?

I'm not worried about deworming them. in fact, i already got the medicine for the first round in a little over a week.

I'm just wondering if all kittens end up with worms, even if there's no evidence of them in the mother. i saw several vet sites that recommend it as a curative and preventative measure, but none of them explained if all kittens actually get worms or not.

If you see linguini-type strings in their poop, they have worms. It's not all that common, from what I've seen, and you can, as you know, administer medicine that will take care of it.

Could you keep the kittens until they are, say, 12-16 weeks (or even older) and get them neutered?

[Wondergirl]

Here's info from a reputable-sounding site --

Early neutering allows for kittens to be neutered prior to adoption. There has been some controversy over this practice as it flies in the face of tradition but all research to date has shown no negative consequences to early neutering.

Some myths have been:

* EARLY NEUTERING IS MORE LIKELY TO PREVENT OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIORS THAN IS NEUTERING AT A LATER AGE.

This has not borne out. Neutering at any age is associated with the same statistics as listed above.

* KITTENS NEUTERED EARLY WILL BE STUNTED OR SMALL.

This is not true though early neutered kittens will not develop the more masculine appearance described above.

* EARLY NEUTERED KITTENS WILL HAVE A NARROWED URETHRA WHICH WILL PREDISPOSE THEM TO BLOCKAGE WITH FELINE LOWER URINARY TRACT DISEASE.

Early neutering does not seem to be a significant factor in this syndrome.

Our hospital supports early neutering but prefers that kittens presented for neutering weigh at least 3 lbs so that the tissues are not too difficult to manipulate.

RECOVERY

There is minimal recovery with this procedure. Most hospitals, like ours, discharge kittens the same day as surgery. There should be no bleeding or swelling. It is a good idea not to bathe the kitten until the incisions have healed 10-14 days from the time of surgery.

[Wondergirl]

I'm trying to remember. We got two female feral kittens fixed last summer (and they got rabies shots). They were born in April, so they must have been about three months old when we trapped them to take to the vet. They are still outdoors and as happy as clams and stay mostly in our huge yard.

[Lucky098]

Typically worming the babies makes darn sure there are no worms in the first place.. and if there are worms, then its taken care of.

It really depends on if the mom has worms. Cats eat icky stuff, worms live in icky stuff.. Its just a preventative to make sure that the babies are getting all nutrients instead of feeding the worms. We have to worm puppies all the time, along with mom. So when you worm the babies, worm mom as well.

If I were you, I would talk to the new owners and tell them up front that at 6 months the cat has to be fixed. If they're not willing to do it, then they're not a good home. Poor people have the ability to give a good, loving home. $40 and $50 for a spay/neuter is not bad at all. Just make it clear that these animals need to be cared for. Don't just settle because the cats are getting too big. Make sure they go to a good home. Drill them about the importance of fixing them. GOOD PEOPLE will take care of their animals no matter what their income is.

Right now you have the ability to screen homes and drill the new owners. If it doesn't feel right, don't give them a cat! If they don't want to take the time to do proper vet care, don't give them the cat. I know you can't keep an eye on all of them, but you can definitely keep an eye on most and do right by them.

It's a whole lot easier than you think :)

And like I said, I'm not a fan of infancy spay/neuter. That choice is completely up to you. It will for sure give you peace of mind that your cats can't produce more cats. As for the rabies, if you do a infancy spay/neuter, typically the shot is given. If you go to a vet, I think you can request it not be given... a clinic that specializes in ferol animals, not to sure. Rabies at a young age just isn't a good idea. The immune system isn't ready for such a nasty virus. It has been given in the past, the animals do OK with it.. but for long term effects.. the animal is probably more suseptibal to getting the virus due to no immune system.

[Wondergirl]

Make sure they go to a good home. Drill them about the importance of fixing them. GOOD PEOPLE will take care of their animals no matter what their income is.

I'm from a rural/small town area similar to hheath's. Cats are the last on the list of animals to get vet care, be neutered, get inoculated, especially if there are a lot of farms in the area. Even $30-40 is a lot in this economy. And she mentioned there are few vets in the county, so people would tend not to bother. In rural areas, cats tend to roam free and reproduce unfettered. Good people don't think twice about letting an unneutered cat roam outdoors -- even if they have promised otherwise. It's very hard to break into and change that mentality. That's what worries me the most about these kittens being given away before they have been neutered.

[hheath541]

Thanks, guys.

Yeah, I'm familiar with what worms look like, and mom just doesn't have them. I came out really lucky when I adopted her. She must have been the healthiest stray in the city. No worms. No fleas. Not malnourished. Thick, healthy coat. Sweetest manners. Completely litter trained. Doesn't scratch the carpet or furniture. She just happened to end up pregnant with six of the cutest kittens I've ever seen before I could give her a home.

Will deworming them hurt them if they don't have worms? Like I said, several vet sites I've seen recommend it as a preventative measure to prevent them from getting worms.

I already bought a box of dewormer, so I'm not worried about cost at all. I just don't want to give them medicine they don't need that may cause more harm than good.

I might be able to keep them until they reach 12 weeks then get them the rabies shot and got them fixed before adopting them out. I'm just not positive. I'm still working out finances and I'm not sure how much I can save up. Even if I wait until after that to get mommy and the two babies I'm keeping fixed, it's still almost $100 for the other four kittens. And, I don't want to end up hurting them by getting their shots too soon.

I'm familiar with the process of getting a cat fixed. I lived with several cats before. The two brothers ended up being a brother and sister, which shocked even the vet. They had four babies. Mommy daddy, and all the babies got fixed while I was there. One of the babies had to be spayed and neutered. All of them were perfectly fine after the incisions healed. A couple of them never even noticed the difference.

I know I have three girls and two boys. The other one I'm having trouble sexing. I'm not too worried about it, though. They aren't even three weeks old, yet.

If they impose a minimum weight, it might be a problem. Mommy isn't that big. At least a couple of the babies show signs of inheriting their mom's size. I'm guessing she weighs somewhere around 3-5 lbs. if they want the kittens to be 3 lbs, then there might be a problem.

[Lucky098]

You can't over due worming. Just follow the directions. I believe babies get wormed at 2wks, 4wks, 6wks, 8wks and so on...

Worms have a nasty cycle. Your cat may appear healthy, but she could be carrying eggs that are trasmitted to her kittens through her milk. Worming on a regular basis is just a safety net that your cats won't get worms.

[hheath541]

The worming stuff I picked up has to be mixed with food, so I won't be able to give it to them until they're eating solid foods. That should be in the next week or two.

Now, if I could just get mommy to not eat the babies' food. I put out a dish of dry food I'd mixed with some water, just to make it mushy. Edith ate it before the kids even got a chance to see it. If she keeps this up, them I'm going to have to lock her in the bathroom when I feed them. At least until they're old enough to bully her out of the way.



And, wg is right. I just don't live in an area where cats get vet care. It's rare for dogs to get vet care, here. It's the biggest county in the state, and there are only 6 vet's offices, and only two in this city. I know at least one or two of those vets specialize in farm animals, and won't even touch a cat or dog.

Most of the county is farms and undeveloped land. It's also the poorest county in the state. We have the highest unemployment rate and the lowest yearly income in the state. Every state has at least one county that gets ignored because it's seen as backwater and uneducated, and therefore less deserving or resources. I happen to live in my state's.

Pets getting medical care seems to be the exception, rather than the rule, here. If someone decides they can't afford to keep their pet, or it's peeing on their carpet, or chewing on the furniture, or they're just tired of taking care of them, they get put out on the street. The pound is so overpopulated that they rarely bother to pick up an animal unless it seems to pose a danger to people. The ones they do pick up, almost always get put down. The shelter has an extremely high kill rate, especially for cats. The nearest no-kill shelter is in the next county, which is about a 40 minute drive from where I am, and they charge for animals brought in.

Craigslist, freecycle, the paper, and yards are saturated with signs for puppies and kittens. No one is going to be willing to put down a deposit or make a promise to fix an animal when they can get a different one for free with no questions asked.

It may work in your area for dogs, but it's just not reasonable for me. I just don't live in an area where people care.

I wish I could keep all the babies. If I don't find homes for them by the end of August, I might have to. Black, and orange, cats have a way of disappearing and ending up dead in the woods around halloween, here. The shelters won't adopt out black cats from September through mid-November. All but one of my babies is mostly black, and the other is black and orange.

[Wondergirl]

You can't over due worming. Just follow the directions. I believe babies get wormed at 2wks, 4wks, 6wks, 8wks and so on...

Worms have a nasty cycle. Your cat may appear healthy, but she could be carrying eggs that are trasmitted to her kittens through her milk. Worming on a regular basis is just a safety net that your cats wont get worms.

Interesting about so many wormings. We managed to get a feral queen and her three kittens into our unfinished basement just before the winter snows, gave them worming meds only once after noticing "linguini" in their stools and vomit (cats tend to throw up when infested with worms), eventually got the cats neutered, then found homes for them all (we kept one).

Hheath, I'm thinking those cats would have the best chance in life with you. Wish you could email or fax me one or two. Will your landlord allow seven cats?

[hheath541]

I honestly don't think he would happy if I kept them all. Not to mention, just the upkeep of taking care of that many cats by myself is a bit beyond me. I would be cleaning out the litter box at least twice a day, and spending all the rest of my time picking up the rest of the house after them.

I lived with nine cats for a bit. That was a lot of work, and there were three adults and two kids to take care of them. I can't imagine what it would be like if I had seven cats by myself.

I think three is pushing it with my landlord. I asked him I could have a cat or two. That was before I knew edith was pregnant. Now I'll have her, zoe, and one other kitten. I haven't decided who else I'm keeping, yet.


Any suggestions on how I can keep edith from eating the kittens' food, once they start actually eating solid food? I'd rather not lock her in another room, if I can help it.

[Lucky098]

She should actually be on kitten food as well. Gives her more nutrients to give to babies.

Rule of thumb :P Anything you give to mom, goes directly to babies. Plus, she'll be wanting to share with them for awhile during weaning. Just makes it easier.

[hheath541]

She should actually be on kitten food as well. Gives her more nutrients to give to babies.

Rule of thumb :P Anything you give to mom, goes directly to babies. Plus, she'll be wanting to share with them for awhile during weaning. Just makes it easier.

Oh, I'm not worried about them eating the same food. I'm worried about her eating all the food in their dish before they can get any.

Right now, until they actually start eating real amounts of solid food, instead of just sniffing it or licking it, I'm just making soggy dry food. Once they start actually eating solids, I'll be putting out canned food for them. The problem is that edith inhales her dry food, and I don't want her going after their's, too. She even woofs down the soggy dry food like she's starving.

Any idea how I can make sure the kittens actually get to the food before she eats it all?

[Lucky098]

Maybe put out two large, flat pie pans? Put them down at the same time. Mom can eat from one dish, babies from another.

She shouldn't want to keep food from them. She'll more than likely encourage the need to eat dry food.

How old are you kittens?

[Wondergirl]

What about this as a bike carrier?

http://www.bikedogcarrier.net/shop/a...?item=89868248