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Cat1864 · Apr 10, 2010, 10:02 AM

At 13 in most places now, consensual sex is still rape-statutory rape. It doesn't matter if she was forced or coerced or not.

Can the smoking and drinking be verified? Is there more than just tobacco and alcohol involved?

I am not going to jump on the 18 year old just yet, but I am very concerned that more than just her (now) ex-boyfriend is involved in this. This seems to be well into contributing to the delinquency of a minor, child endangerment, and sounds like child pornography.

You know the family. Talking might help, but I can't see this getting resolved with anything less than counseling for her (she is a possible victim), her family, and getting the court system involved. I would be very curious to find if prior accusations were dropped after an investigation or because she 'admitted' to lying. It is not uncommon for 'rape/molestation' victims to recount their accusations when they feel like they are under more scrutiny than the perpetrator.

shazamataz · Apr 10, 2010, 10:02 AM

Excellent advice Calif thank you.
I honestly didn't think about the photo in that way, I was more in the mindset of what happens when it gets forwarded around to everyone at her school.

I am not sure if the mother knows about the photo, that story was told to us by the brother only yesterday.

Clough: As far as I know (my OH knows more than I do) the mother does allow a fair bit to go on in her home.
BUT the family is fairly prudeish (is that even a word) so she knows it would be looked down upon by everyone.

shazamataz · Apr 10, 2010, 10:06 AM

Thank you Cat (we posted at the same time)

Again, I can't confirm whether he shared any illegal substances with the children but it is well known that he himself partakes in it.
The smoking and drinking can be verified by the brother but I don't know whether he would admit it to the authorities (even though they don't like their father I doubt they would say anything bad about him)

The 18 year old has issues of his own.
If they were still going out (and thank dog they aren't) that would be sorted very quickly as she isn't smart enough not to keep his name off Facebook ;)

Kitkat22 · Apr 10, 2010, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

Thankyou Cat (we posted at the same time)

Again, I can't confirm whether or not he shared any illegal substances with the children but it is well known that he himself partakes in it.
The smoking and drinking can be verified by the brother but I don't know whether or not he would admit it to the authorities (even though they don't like their father I doubt they would say anything bad about him)

The 18 year old has issues of his own.
If they were still going out (and thank dog they aren't) that would be sorted very quickly as she isn't smart enough not to keep his name off Facebook ;)

You'll do the right thing Shaz... It's just the kind of person you are! Huggs

Cat1864 · Apr 10, 2010, 10:27 AM

It sounds like the girl needs counseling at the very least.

An opening for a discussion with the mother, might be concern over the changes her daughter is exhibiting. Looking at the troubled teen aspect of what is going on and trying to stop this from getting worse. Take the spot-light off being a 'good' or 'bad' parent and putting it on normal teen behavior aggravated by family circumstances (aka: she's 'acting out'.) There may be enough truth in it to get the girl help without putting mom on the defensive about her own parenting skills or self-image.

Kitkat22 · Apr 10, 2010, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Cat1864

It sounds like the girl needs counseling at the very least.

An opening for a discussion with the mother, might be concern over the changes her daughter is exhibiting. Looking at the troubled teen aspect of what is going on and trying to stop this from getting worse. Take the spot-light off of being a 'good' or 'bad' parent and putting it on normal teen behavior aggravated by family circumstances (aka: she's 'acting out'.) There may be enough truth in it to get the girl help without putting mom on the defensive about her own parenting skills or self-image.

I think the father is more the issue. He needs to be out of her life if he can't protect her..

shazamataz · Apr 10, 2010, 10:41 AM

The thing that is really scary is there was a story here about a 12 year old girl being prostituted out by her own father. She had slept with an estimated 150 men.

That was just before we found out about this... it just makes you wonder.

I think the idea of approaching it as a teen acting out is a good idea. Especially since the information about the boyfriend is on FB.

I know it's just my opinion but a 13 year old should barely be dating, let alone having sex and becoming a fan of "spooning" on FB (and yes her mother IS on there too!)

I know if we jumped straight in and said "you are a bad mother" all that would do is make her flare up and get us nowhere. Just approaching it gently and asking about her having boyfriends in general would be a good start.

Cat1864 · Apr 10, 2010, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

The thing that is really scary is there was a story here about a 12 year old girl being prostituted out by her own father. She had slept with an estimated 150 men.

There have been some stories in our news over the past few months that make me wonder about so-called parents. What scares me is the knowledge that it is really nothing new. It is just more out in the open. :(

shazamataz · Apr 10, 2010, 11:02 AM

Very true, and very sad.

Kitkat22 · Apr 10, 2010, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

The thing that is really scary is there was a story here about a 12 year old girl being prostituted out by her own father. She had slept with an estimated 150 men.

That was just before we found out about this... it just makes you wonder.

I think the idea of approaching it as a teen acting out is a good idea. Especially since the information about the boyfriend is on FB.

I know it's just my opinion but a 13 year old should barely be dating, let alone having sex and becoming a fan of "spooning" on FB (and yes her mother IS on there too!)

I know if we jumped straight in and said "you are a bad mother" all that would do is make her flare up and get us nowhere. Just approaching it gently and asking about her having boyfriends in general would be a good start.

Shaz.. Be strong for your friend and I hate Facebook. Too many trusting young people out there. Too many sickos in the world. Trust your instincts... blessings

Catsmine · Apr 10, 2010, 11:27 AM

Shaz, I'm going to take Dad's point and go sideways.

The photo, being child porn, is V's reason to step in. Assume the mother doesn't know about it. Don't assume the photographer is at fault. The photographer could be the 13 y.o. but the photography itself takes the problem to a new level.

Make the drive for friendship's sake. The life you save...

shazamataz · Apr 10, 2010, 11:32 AM

Thank you Cats.

Not only does she need a talking to about sharing or allowing photos to be taken, but we also need to find out how many people have shared that photo around!

Another thing that surprised me is that the brother has a very short temper, normally the guy who had the photo on his phone would be beaten to a pulp but yet he did nothing.
I am hoping it was just the shock of seeing it. (not that I condone violence but you get my point)

Catsmine · Apr 10, 2010, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

Thankyou Cats.

Not only does she need a talking to about sharing or allowing photos to be taken, but we also need to find out how many people have shared that photo around!

Another thing that surprised me is that the brother has a very short temper, normally the guy who had the photo on his phone would be beaten to a pulp but yet he did nothing.
I am hoping it was just the shock of seeing it. (not that I condone violence but you get my point)

You all need to go find out.

Jake2008 · Apr 10, 2010, 12:21 PM

The problem is, this child, I repeat, child, phoned her brother and said she had been raped. She also posted (at least) one nude picture of herself online. Several people saw it.

What we can only do is guess. Guess if she's telling the truth, guess if the father is somehow involved, guess about the boyfriend's influence over her, guess if she really was raped, guess if she's drinking, doing drugs. We can guess the meaning of conversations we were not a part of, and guess what the mother and/or father may or may not do.

That is not good enough.

I would call the CPS in this instance. If a rape did take place and it is not reported, there are consequences for everybody, not to mention the child.

She is a child, and if the parents have not stepped up, somebody has to report this and do the right thing.

My guess is this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Please, report this.

Kitkat22 · Apr 10, 2010, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jake2008

The problem is, this child, I repeat, child, phoned her brother and said she had been raped. She also posted (at least) one nude picture of herself online. Several people saw it.

What we can only do is guess. Guess if she's telling the truth, guess if the father is somehow involved, guess about the boyfriend's influence over her, guess if she really was raped, guess if she's drinking, doing drugs. We can guess the meaning of conversations we were not a part of, and guess what the mother and/or father may or may not do.

That is not good enough.

I would call the CPS in this instance. If a rape did take place and it is not reported, there are consequences for everybody, not to mention the child.

She is a child, and if the parents have not stepped up, somebody has to report this and do the right thing.

My guess is this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Please, report this.

We will be thinking of you Shaz... Blessings:)

tickle · Apr 10, 2010, 05:02 PM

Yes, I agree with Kit, blessings luvvy and go do what you have to do. I am so glad you came to us with this problem and probably settled your mind on what you and your partner have to do. We are here for both of you.

Tick

Kitkat22 · Apr 10, 2010, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

yes, I agree with Kit, blessings luvvy and go do what you have to do. I am so glad you came to us with this problem and probably settled your mind on what you and your partner have to do. We are here for both of you.

tick

Shaz.. somewhere in the future that child will look at you and say "Thank you for being there, you saved my life". Bless her heart and yours. She'll never forget how kind you are. We all think that... You and Alty are so kindhearted. :)

Unsure_11 · Apr 10, 2010, 05:53 PM

No!

Kitkat22 · Apr 10, 2010, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Unsure_11

no!

No.. Explain your answer if you'd like!

shazamataz · Apr 11, 2010, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Unsure_11

no!

No to which one? :confused:

Thank you for you answer Jake.

We have decided that we will definitely be having a chat with the mother.
Hopefully this coming weekend we will be able to drive down to see them.

I have a question, can all the minors who have the photograph (mostly boys under 16) can they be charged with possession of child pornography?
I don't really want this blowing out of hand (and kids being charged) but I do want something to be done about it.

Kit: I know she won't see it that way now but hopefully in the future she will thank us.