[darkdays]

That means you only see this from one side, YOURS!! So you keep going about this whole thing from the same perspective, and need more time to see a bigger, more clear picture. A relationship requires an understanding of both sides, not just one. Thats why this will never work, because you only approach the side that you can see, to get what you want. Until you learn how to back up, you will always be too close to see what you need to. Yes its you that has to change your entire approach, because what ever you're doing isn't working.

When it doesn't work, you DON'T keep doing it.

All right, well, I guess I can understand that.
Now what if I went to a movie with her, just as friends, on a friendly basis, and didn't get into any heavy conversation about anything. Just enjoyed our time together and leave it at that, and just back off the whole relationship bit, and see where things go on their own, or if they do. Do you think there would be any harm in that?

[vanheart]

Well, back to that. Still not listening.

You don't want to be a friend, remember?

Isn't this the new question asked again?

Like Tal said: Did he miss something in 30 pages?

[darkdays]

Ok, so don't go at all, right? Either going as her boyfriend, or just a friend, it's a bad idea. Either way Im screwed and it's wrong. I just can't win either way, can I? No matter what, everyone thinks it's always a bad idea to have anything to do with her, and it's all my fault somehow.
Sorry guys, but Im more confused now then when I first asked a question here on this forum weeks ago.
Thanks anyway, but now I think I need a strong drink and some counseling, or maybe a priest.

[vanheart]

Yup its wrong.

Sorry to disappoint you.

You're only confused because you have tunnel vision and haven't really soaked in the advice.

Maybe read your thread through a few thousand times.

A drink isn't going to help, but a counselor, great idea.

[talaniman]

Now we are getting somewhere. Nothing wrong with enjoying your baby mama one on one, but when it gets deep, and confusing, back off.

The thing is, I feel your still at the point where your coping skill will not allow you the luxury of making those kinds of adjustments without confusion, or be able to handle her actions, in any meaningful way.

I really feel because your still obsessed with making this work, you will again be sucked in until she spits you out... AGAIN. That's why I really think personal one on one interactions AT THIS TIME will do a lot more harm than good.

I still think your best course of actions is for you to develop a whole lot more skills at staying objective, being able to recognize where your own feelings are leading you, and doing what's right, as opposed to trying to get what you want, which is not realistic, or practical, AT THIS TIME.

YOU NEED A LOT MORE TIME TO HEAL BUDDY before you can process what this situation really comes down to. You trying to force something that just won't fit. Give yourself that time by doing away with unrealistic expectations brought on by too much feelings, and not enough facts.

Then her own mixed up feelings will no longer confuse you, nor drive you wacky, because you will know how to deal with it. That takes time, and you do this for your own clarity. Life is not about rushing to get something, its about you working to keep something. Your sanity, and happiness. Woman or no!

Talaniman Rule-Never follow your heart when it’s so broken, it makes the brain feel like mush

Talaniman Rule-Love yourself enough to never allow any one to treat you badly. If they do, LEAVE.

Talaniman Rule- Don't play games with your heart, and don't let somebody else play games with it either.

[talaniman]

FACTS

She is your babies mama, not your soul mate

You work lousy together

You don't understand each other

Your too pessimistic when you don't get your way

Your to closed minded to accept new ideas or ways of thinking.

You are afraid to act outside your own comfort zone

You don't analyze facts well, and make adjustments

You don't plan or think before you act or speak

Not try to be harsh or put you down, but you have a lot of personal growth to do, or you can say the hell with all that work, and do what your doing now.

If you quit on yourself though, then you will never no the joy and power accomplishment brings, or the value of planning for what you want and being able to enjoy it.

Now that's depressing, so listen up, and get busy on your own happiness that doesn't include any one but your son.

[darkdays]

Thanks Tal, you have great advice, and that's where I feel that I am, with most of what you just said.
Ok, I realize I was probably off base with saying I should have a serious talk with her. She's not in any position to make a serious decisuion about things, and this could be very well another one of her ploys to suck me back in to scratch her itch so to speak just to spit me out all over again, so that was a bad idea.
I would just like to go, for one, because I do enjoy being with her when we do get along. And for another, maybe realized more so now, that I can be fine with or without her, and not need to show anything but just being in a friendly way, and avoid anything deep.
By the way, when she did call last weekend, she asked about the girl I told her about in the message I left her, and I told her I was still going to see that girl, and I held myself in the conversation very well. She told me she loves me, but I didn't say so back, and I didn't talk about us at all. I just acted like I was fine and going on with my life. And the truth of it was I actually was. None of it was an act at all. Im not desperate for her or the relationship. I would like to see it all work out, but I realize I can't make it happen or force her to be something or someone she's not. She needs to decide that for herself.

[vanheart]

Amazing advice from Tal on both of those. Says everything at this stage.

I hope you take some time to let that soak in. And get a REAL game plan together, no more fantasies.

There's no blame. We are all personally responsible for our mistakes & successes. Including me.

That's what I meant about digging deeper into who darkdays is and the decisions you make in the future.

[darkdays]

Ok everybody, I guess you were all right and you told me so.
Last night, me and my ex were to meet up for that movie. During the day, we emailed each other, and we were telling each other how excited we were to see each other again. Everything was going great. Then aboutr two hours before we were to meet, she calls. By the way she was talking, I thought she might have been drinking. I can usually tell. So I said something about it, and she asked why I thought she was, and I told her. Then she says it's probably just from her allergy medication she took. Yeah right, I knew she was. Not that I really cared, but I know how she is. So she tells me we can forget about our date. After nearly two weeks of planning it, and talking about it all that time, she cancels. So I said fine, and hung up. Then she calls me back again ten minutes later and asked me if we were meeting up. I said, I thought you just said you didn't want to go now. Then she tells me to stop playing games. What?
So anyway, I told her Im going there whether she goes or not. And she says just forget it. So I go, and I end up meeting some people I didn't really know, but we were talking in the parking lot. One of them was a black female. And we were having a great conversation. So then my ex pulls by, sees me and this girl talking, and shouts out something about me being into n*****s now, and drives off. Luckily the girl I was talking to didn't get offended, she just laughed it off, and I apologized for it anyway, but she said she didn't care. So as we are still standing there talking, my ex comes back again. She just sits there staring at me and this girl talking. So we left to go somewhere else. My ex kept trying to call me over and over on my cell, but I didn't answer. By the way, nothing happened between this new girl I met, we ended up having a few drinks and socializing with some people she knew. It was all just a social things, nothing major.
So this morning, my ex calls, cussing me out and accusing me of all kinds of stuff. I hung up on her and she kept calling back over and over again. I told her I didn't want to talk to her unless it was about our son, and she says I'll never see him again and everything else.
So I called her mother and told her to tell her daughter to grow up and stop calling me or I will call the police about it, and that I didn't want to do that. As far as my son, her mother told me she will make sure I can see him and she will deal with that. And today, I went by to pick up my son to spend some time with him, and there were no problems. I didn't have to deal with my ex at all, her mother took care of it.
Well, I think I finally learned my lesson. And I did tell my ex's mother to let her know that I never want anything more to do with her daughter unless it comes to my son, and to tell her that.
You guys were all right. It was just a vicious cycle she would repeat over and over. It seemed like all she wanted me to do was bow down to her and take all her crap all the time. That's not love, and not any love I want anymore.

[friend4u178]

Good for you darkdays , I'm glad she showed her true colors before you wasted anymore time on her.

I hope you can now go back and read some of our posts and realise what we were actually saying , because sometimes when your in an emotional state it doesn't sink in or make sense.

[darkdays]

Good for you darkdays , I'm glad she showed her true colors before you wasted anymore time on her.

I hope you can now go back and read some of our posts and realise what we were actually saying , because sometimes when your in an emotional state it doesn't sink in or make sense.

Thanks friend4you.
I guess I just had to finally go through more of it just to finally have enough. I can't believe agter two weeks of planning, she just ruins it again. Well, actually I guess I can. I wonder if she willl try to work me into her some more again? Even if she does, Im going to stand strong. She will never change. It's almost like she just gets worse. But I just wonder if she will. But at least now she can't use my son to get her way. Her mom is on my side when it comes to that.

[friend4u178]

Thanks friend4you.
I guess I just had to finally go through more of it just to finally have enough. I can't believe agter two weeks of planning, she just ruins it again. Well, actually I guess I can. I wonder if she willl try to work me into her some more again? Even if she does, Im going to stand strong. She will never change. It's almost like she just gets worse. But I just wonder if she will. But at least now she can't use my son to get her way. Her mom is on my side when it comes to that.

My bet is she will :cool:

[darkdays]

My bet is she will :cool:

I wouldn't know why she would. The way she acts, she doesn't seem like she cares about me very much. There's so much I don't think I'll ever understand.

[sabrewolfe]

I wouldn't know why she would. The way she acts, she doesn't seem like she cares about me very much. There's so much I don't think I'll ever understand.

I do!
Because it seems this girl has some serious control issues, and your not obeying her. Doesn't it seem funny that she'll keep playing these games with you when she doesn't get things exactly the way she wants? Your not being a good boy and playing by her little rules!
Good for you! It's about time you stood up like a man for yourself!
Let that little girl play her games else where, and maintain your standards and sense of self. And it seems that her mother has your back when it comes to your rights to your son, so now you don't have to go through all the idiot motions with the childish one to see your boy.
Sorry that the family thing didn't work out, but don't blame yourself. You did all you could do. That girl has too many issues that you just can't do anything about. Sometimes people just are who they are, and no matter how sensible or justified something might be, they will just never see it, or they do and try to twist things around for their own selfish cause.

[vanheart]

Once you have your own rules and lay it down. There will no longer be games dictated by her.

She will realize that very fast. You got to resist her tactics to play with your heart at any cost. (ie: sucking you in or making you feel like crap)

Knowing that she can't play you anymore.

For you, water off a ducks back, so to speak, when she tries...

[darkdays]

I have a new question I'd like to ask, and I was told that I should keep it within the same thread as before because it concerns basically the same subject-my in and out, ex-girlfreind.
Her and I have been doing a little talking. She says she was very in love with me, but now she doesn't know how she feels. She says that I have made her that way.
She says her reasons for this is because I have talked to other women, mostly friends, and have talked with other women in a social setting. Now I have never cheated on her, wouldn't think to unless we were broken up, in that case it wouldn't be cheating, but she says it's the way I am around other women. Some of it I don't understand, and the rest that I do is that she thinks I treat them better, but it's usually not that I mean to, it's just that I can get along with other women just fine for one reason is because we can be friends, we are not in a relationship, and we never argue.
My questions about all this is, do women really get that hurt and offeneded when their men talk with other women? And if I hurt her that bad, which I never meant to, I would think that meant that she really did love me and valued having me as her boyfriend. Could she still be in love with me, but can't show it because of all this? And is there any way I might be able to rectify things? Make her feel more secure?
Im really starting to wonder if a lot of our problems and the way she has acted has been a direct result of things I may have done, not intentionally, but things I didn't pay attention to that hurt her.
I'd appreciate any input I can get. Im really trying hard to figure this out.
It doesn't make me feel too good knowing that I made her feel this way.

[talaniman]

You have reacted to her on/off behavior, and she is always going to be suspicious of you whether you deserve it or not. Sometime we can't anticipate how people will react, but we can always let them deal with their own issues and not take them personally. For whatever reason, she can't be pleased by you so stop trying. Be honest and direct instead, and let her deal with herself, and the way she reacts.