[TommyBotham]

You sound to me like you lean more towards being a lesbian than being straight--but that's MY opinion, and really--it's YOUR opinion that counts.

I'm bi-sexual--I think about either sex when I fantasize. That doesn't mean I'm not faithful to my husband--i am--but it means that I know I'm sexually attracted to BOTH genders.

Here's the thing: There IS no such thing as "normal". Period. EVERYONE has some form of kink in them.

Why worry about labels?

This just proves how wrong and confused the World is today.. How is this possible?

[Enigma1999]

How so TommyBotham? Please?

[TommyBotham]

I don't dispute that anyone is 100% straight because that's never true. Even I can sometimes look at another guy and just think 'wow he's hot'.. The thing is though I never act on it because I like woman. After having sex with one I would never give it up for a man.

There are problems. If being homosexual is genetic, how do you explain bisexuality? Ok so people are genetically attracted to the opposite sex. Are bisexuals genetically attracted to both men and women? No because it's a ridiculous assumption. This is why I'm prejudiced against bisexuals and am not afraid of hiding it. Bisexuality completely destroys the argument that Homosexuals have, and they've spent ages trying to be accepted in the world. If being bisexual is not genetic, it must be a choice - a selfish one at that - so that must mean homosexuality is a choice? No! Because Homosexuals cannot help their feelings. So bisexuality IS a choice depending on how you are feeling. Either be gay or be straight, don't dabble in between picking and choosing what you like because it's just immoral and a little unfair.

[Enigma1999]

Hello Tommy,

First off I am not sure if my leading this conversation on is against AMHD policies... This would take away from the OP's concerns. Second, if this is allowed, then I have a few words, kind words, but words for you my friend...

[Synnen]

So... you don't think that it's genetically possible for someone to be attracted to BOTH sexes?

Then how could it POSSIBLY be genetic that someone is attracted to one over the other?

Again--It's not black or white here. Just shades of gray.

I can't help that I'm attracted to both sexes. That doesn't mean I can't remain faithful to the PERSON I am with, regardless of gender.

Either way--it doesn't matter to the OP. I still suggest counseling to ANYONE who is unsure of how they feel about their own sexuality, simply because if you don't know YOURSELF, you will never be happy with another person, regardless of gender.

[Gemini54]

I don't dispute that anyone is 100% straight because thats never true. Even I can sometimes look at another guy and just think 'wow he's hot'.. The thing is though I never act on it because I like woman. After having sex with one I would never give it up for a man.

There are problems. If being homosexual is genetic, how do you explain bisexuality? Ok so people are genetically attracted to the opposite sex. Are bisexuals genetically attracted to both men and women? No because it's a ridiculous assumption. This is why I'm prejudiced against bisexuals and am not afraid of hiding it. Bisexuality completely destroys the argument that Homosexuals have, and they've spent ages trying to be accepted in the world. If being bisexual is not genetic, it must be a choice - a selfish one at that - so that must mean homosexuality is a choice? No! Because Homosexuals cannot help their feelings. So bisexuality IS a choice depending on how you are feeling. Either be gay or be straight, don't dabble in between picking and choosing what you like because it's just immoral and a little unfair.

Morality has nothing to do with it. You're confusing a sexual preference (i.e. attraction to both genders) with an issue of morals. It's immoral to steal and murder and rape, it's not immoral to be attracted to men and women.

As for homosexuality being genetic - who says?

[Synnen]

Actually--MY argument with the whole thing is that if homosexuality or bisexuality is a CHOICE--then so is being straight.

I have issues with people imposing THEIR choices onto me.

[TommyBotham]

Actually--MY argument with the whole thing is that if homosexuality or bisexuality is a CHOICE--then so is being straight.

I have issues with people imposing THEIR choices onto me.

No one is imposing their choices onto you. You say you are happily married with a husband, yet when you fantasize you use the opposite sex too? And you openly state you also are attracted to the opposite sex? How is this possible except to say you are simply deluded?

It is your choice if you want to have relations with both genders. Me, I can't help not liking men, I could never imagine myself so much as embracing a man in a more than friendly way. Just as homosexuals cannot help not being attracted to the opposite sex.

You can do both... So you cannot help being attracted to both genders even though you are married? It must be a state of mind engendered by your choices.. Moreover, you have not stated whether you had serious relations with a same gender, you only said you fantasize about it. Therefore it's just sexual, and that is what makes you and other bisexuals slightly immoral, in that it's a specifically sexual preference and state of mind. It has nothing to do with what makes you emotionally conencted or what makes you happy long term. Just sexual pleasure.

I say this because I live with bisexuals in my student halls, they just go from man to women, women to man. However the homosexuals here actually stick with their partners and don't dabble. So it must be simply a choice depending on what suits you at the time.

This doesn't answer the OP's question, but I would very much like to debate about this, so feel free to move the recent posts to a new thread.

[Synnen]

I thought of moving this to Member Discussions, but decided that Adult Sexuality fits as well... and we'll all just keep in mind that this is a discussion.

Let's try to NOT rate answers here, okay? This is a DISCUSSION, but I'd like to keep it here in Adult Sexuality so that we are not opening it up to underage members.

Are you saying you've NEVER had a fantasy about another person while in a long term relationship? Even if the other person is imaginary completely, or the fantasy fleeting?

I've dated women, I've dated men. I just happened to find the person who emotionally and mentally completed me in a man.

I mean--honestly, here--even when in love with someone, and committed to them, have you NEVER seen a person at the mall, at the grocery store, on TV, wherever, that you're attracted to? Not that you want to ACT on the attraction, but the attraction is still there, right? I mean, how many happily married women have that dreamy fantasy about George Clooney? I just happen to have mine occasionally about Johnny Depp, and occasionally about Elizabeth Hurley.

I had a really terrific connection with one of my exes--one of my female exes. Unfortunately, we were both young, and both jealous, and were not able to deal with peer pressure, pressure from school (we were in college) and neither of us had finished figuring out who we were. So basically--we were your typical early college relationship that fell apart because of life. She was a wonderful woman--I connected with her in most ways, and dating her was EXACTLY the same for me as dating a man was. The emotional connection, the sexual tension, the way I'd daydream about her, whatever. We were just not in the right place and time for our relationship to work.

So no--it's NOT "just sexual". But yes--I AM sexually attracted to both men and women. It's not a "choice" that I'm attracted to both. Just as you cannot help NOT being attracted to men, I cannot help that I AM attracted to both men and women.

To me, morality is more about being a good person, and not about who I sleep with. I've never hidden who I was from any of the people I've dated. My husband understands that while he is my primary fantasy, occasionally I'll drool over the girl I saw at the grocery store, and we have a lot of fun comparing our tastes in women. He knows I would not cheat on him, with a male OR a female.

Tell me this--do you watch porn? Isn't that just a tiny bit a fantasy? Looking at people you're attracted to? Please don't get me wrong--I've never had a problem with porn, and think that it's a REALLY great tool for when your partner isn't available and you have an itch to scratch. It's also a lot of fun to watch together and get ideas from. Frankly, there are some nights when I'm NOT in the mood, and I'll send my husband to scratch his own itch. He's not looking at ME when he's scratching that itch, though he'd PREFER it were me--but I'm unavailable.

Same thing. If my husband isn't available, then my fantasies are my own.

[CravenMorhead]

As a preface. I am talking about true bisexuality and homosexuality. Not 'college experimentation' or 'porn homo/bisexuality.'

I don't dispute that anyone is 100% straight because thats never true. Even I can sometimes look at another guy and just think 'wow he's hot'.. The thing is though I never act on it because I like woman. After having sex with one I would never give it up for a man.

And we are continuing the discussion now why? You have conceded the issue. You are attracted to females and attracted to males as well.

There are problems. If being homosexual is genetic, how do you explain bisexuality?

The problem is we don't know if it is or if it isn't. There is the entire Nature VS Nurture problem. Take a ordinary child and put it with a homosexual couple. The child will grow up 'normal'. It is most likely not nurture.

On the other hand if you take a child from a homosexual person and raise it in a homosexual family and the child will most likely be heterosexual.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Unless there is some interacting during gestation.

Ok so people are genetically attracted to the opposite sex. Are bisexuals genetically attracted to both men and women? No because it's a ridiculous assumption.

You are completely right for the wrong reasons. From what I know about the basics of attraction, you are attracted to a person. Now your senses will gage various bits about the person. Smell will tell you something, sight will tell you something, hearing and touch will tell you something, and even taste.

Your sense of smell will give you the best sense of the person. Their scent will tell you a lot subconsciously about the person. Now here is where the conjecture will start.

Some possible explanations:
1) Their scent has undertones that attract you, they might have the proper combination that just drives you wild regardless of their sex. So a guy might have the right combination that just drives me wild, might be one a 3.5billion thing. Just happens.
2) Their general attractants, including body language, signal their attraction to you and you find that sub-consciously alluring.

I could come up with more.

The general problem here is that the research is lacking because it is still a sensitive area for research. The societal impact would be so large if this question was answered that it scares away many researcher.

An interesting thought, have you ever had your leg owned by a spayed female pit bull terrier? In the biblical sense? In the male sense? Consider when a dog is usually spayed/neutered and the impact that would have on their brain and urogential system. A argument for the genetic background of homosexuality?

This is why I'm prejudiced against bisexuals and am not afraid of hiding it. Bisexuality completely destroys the argument that Homosexuals have, and they've spent ages trying to be accepted in the world.

If anything bisexuality gives more of a footing for the acceptance homosexuals in society. If gives us more of a spectrum of human sexuality instead of a stark Homosexual-heterosexual classification.

If being bisexual is not genetic, it must be a choice - a selfish one at that - so that must mean homosexuality is a choice? No! Because Homosexuals cannot help their feelings. So bisexuality IS a choice depending on how you are feeling.

This is such a logical rats nest, you're contradicting yourself and coming to a false conclusion.

'If bisexuality isn't genetic then it is a choice.' True. Rather it is a good hypothesis for a master/doctorate thesis.
'If bisexuality is a choice then homosexuality is a choice.' Also true, given that human sexuality is spectrum. The statement is logically sound, but is based on a incorrect assumption so is incorrect.
'Homosexuality isn't a choice because of undeniable attraction to their own sex.' Not completely correct but getting closer.
'Bisexuality is a choice because they are attracted to both sexes and can be attracted more to one sex then the other.' False.

I paraphrase, I know. I am trying to be more concise and less idiomatic.

Either be gay or be straight, don't dabble in between picking and choosing what you like because it's just immoral and a little unfair.

Lastly you suggest that homosexuality is a choice.

Lastly:
1). Bisexuality is immoral because they are attracted to both?
2). Immoral according to you. General morality changes depending on where the person is and what they believe. General secular morality says there is nothing wrong as long as everyone is consenting.
3). It is isn't unfair that a person is attracted to both sexes. It isn't unfair that they will date one or date another.

Bisexuality is just as fine as homosexuality.

What gets dicey is when it starts to interfere with peoples relationships and their emotions. That isn't what this thread is about though.

[neverme]

Alrighty then.

You have made a lot of assumptions here based on what may or may not be 'college born bisexuality'. There is a lot of people in college who will experiment in college with the same sex, maybe once maybe the entire way through their life until they meet someone they are compatible with that will say that they are not bisexual.

There are, however people, like Synnen from what I can gather but I do not want to put words in her mouth, that are attracted to and have acted on these attractions both sexes, and see themselves as bisexual. BUT have decided to take a mate for life and are just as capable as any homo/heterosexual in being faithful.

As others have said, who said that homosexuality is genetic? It does not need to be genetic to make it NOT A CHOICE. As everyone in the world is built from different blocks, even between siblings, we all come out differently. I would like to state here that I do not believe that bisexuality or homosexuality are a choice. The main reason, above others, that I have for this is that, as someone who has 'come out' and also spoken to a wide variety of people with different levels of acceptance from their family and peers, it is not the easy route to take. But it is one that some, NOT EVERYONE UNFORTUNATELY, feel they NEED to take to be themselves.

That aside, How has one group of people destroyed anothers argument? I really cannot see how you can think this? Is it because you are of the belief that homosexuals base their argument for acceptance on it being genetic? Not all do, in fact I would venture to say a lot don't.

Bisexuality is not a choice. It is an attraction to both sexes AND someone that acts on that attraction. I can only speak for my personal beliefs. In my experience, I have entered into a relationship or indeed just sex, with members of both sexes out of an attraction to them. I will concede that for a dalliance it has been mostly physically based but the long term relationships I have had are based on a true love, trust and compassion for someone irregardless of their sex. I would like to say now that none of this is said to attempt to get you to accept me but simply as a means for you to possibly further understand.

I would like to know how you see this as unfair or immoral? Every partner that I have chosen has been fully aware that I am bisexual and accepted that before a relationship has begun. Immoral? Well I am not religious but I am spiritual so if you would like to address the way that a certain religion looks on bisexuality or homosexuality I cannot be of help there. But as a question of morality on a broader sense I see no issue, how does who I sleep with make any odds to anyone that is not in my bed? As I have said, anyone I have been with has known prior to anything serious. As long as no one is hurt by another's actions and both people are consenting adults I can see no issue whatsoever. I am not saying here, that all bisexuals, homosexuals or heterosexuals act this way, they may or may not but please do not tar any one grouping with the same brush.

You say that you cannot imagine embracing a man in more than a friendly manner? That's grand, I have no problem with that, but then you intimate that this is the same for homosexuals, I have issue with this. There are a lot, again I would venture to say the majority of homosexuals that have engaged in heterosexual relationships either before they had come to a clear decision about their homosexuality or before they could deal with that. I am speaking here for the actual people I have spoken to, including both lesbians and gay men.They are not disgusted with this fact, it was all on their journey to being who they are. Could they now imagine being in a relationship or having relations with the opposite sex, yes. Do they want to, no. Also, I have a male homosexual friend who, post 'coming out', at one point in his life thought he may want to have sex with a woman again. That would have been his choice, it doesn't take away from him being homosexual as that is what he identifies as.

You talk about the argument of homosexuality that homosexuals have taken ages trying to be accepted into the world. And what about bisexuals? It is small minded people like you, in my opinion, that are stunting the full acceptance of all sexual preferences. I ask you this, why does it bother you who I decide to sleep with? Male or female, we are both consenting adults who have not asked for anyone's opinion, nor frankly do I want it, on what we have decided to do. Do not misunderstand me here, I think that this world would be a far greater place should everyone accept each other for just what they are. As long as no one will be hurt by the actions of another I have no problem with it. I do not understand why anyone should have a problem with the emotional/sexual life I, or any other consenting adult of any sexual preference,decide to lead.

[hheath541]

I say this because I live with bisexuals in my student halls, they just go from man to women, women to man. However the homosexuals here actually stick with their partners and don't dabble. So it must be simply a choice depending on what suits you at the time.

I feel that most of your other points have either already been addressed, so I'm just going to focus on this one for now.

You say that the bisexuals at your school tend to skip from relationship to relationship, but that the homosexuals don't. Have you paid any attention to the straight relationships? Do you actually know enough about the gay community at your school to monitor their relationships?

If you actually paid attention, I'm sure the reality would shock you. My guess would be that the average straight person jumps between relationships at least as often as you think the bisexuals do. The homosexuals are probably right there with them. What brings your attention to the bisexuals more so than other groups is the change in gender from relationship to relationship.

I would also guess that the bisexuals in lasting relationships aren't recognized as such by the casual observer. Those in relationships with a same-sex partner as seen as gay. Those in opposite-sex relationships are seen as straight. Unless you have known them long enough, or they have told you, there's no way of knowing if someone is bisexual or not based on one relationship.

Let's say a female couple has been together for more than a year. You've known them for just under two years. Neither of them actively dated for several months prior to ending up together. That means, you are basing your assumption of their sexuality on the only relationship you have seen either of them in. now, let's say that one of those women spent most of high school in a committed relationship with a guy, and the other ends up marrying a man a few years after her relationship with the other woman ends.

Do you still think they're a gay couple? Or are they now bisexuals who skip from partner to partner dabbling in both sexes, just taking several years between switching?

The same could be said for a male/female couple. They have been together for more than two years. You've known them for a year of that time. What you don't know is that the woman was in a serious of committed relationships with other girls in high school. The man will go on to be very happily married to another man in just over five years from now.

Do you still think they're a straight couple? Or are they now bisexuals who skip from partner to partner dabbling in both sexes, just taking several years between switching?

You are basing your assumptions on superficial facts and observations. You have no way of knowing the relationship history, or future, of everyone at your school to be able to say who is what sexual orientation.

Unless the gay community where you are is a LOT different then one I've spent the last several years in, I'd like to know where you got that their relationships last longer, especially at the college level. It is my experience that gay couples in their early twenties tend to stay together for a few months to a year on average. It seems about the same, if not shorter, than straight or bisexual couples.

Now, gay MARRIAGES tend to last longer than straight marriages. But that isn't really relevant for the younger age group. Especially since gays tend to marry later than straights.