[NeedKarma]

My mother had hers 8 days later.

[tomder55]

See... you are a tea partier after all! But maybe not .

Because tea partiers also see their neighbor who gamed the system getting a mortgage deal by the government that their taxes are paying for... when they sacrificed and lived in cheap rentals to build up equity and then purchased a home within their means.

None of that would've happened if there weren't a politician involved trying to level the playing field or being compassionate with other people's money .

In fact this whole health care thingy is an attempt at that compassion with other people's money that our pols are so good at.

[excon]

Hello again:

Dudes...

In response to the right wing screed that the government is going to ration health care, I've argued here many times, that insurance companies ALREADY ration care. I've pointed out that our system of paid for health care itself, rations care to those who can afford it. Plus, what I haven't mentioned, is that your own doctor, by himself and WITHOUT any government intervention, rations your medical care.

Health care ALL over the world IS rationed. That's just so. There are MORE people needing care, than there are people providing it. It ain't no different here. Get over it. THIS law is an attempt to serve MORE people with limited care. Does that mean, that even here, in this great country of ours, that if you need a knee replaced, you might have to wait longer than you'd like, so we can take care of the people who need emergency care? I think it does.

I'm fine with that.

excon

[speechlesstx]

My mother had hers 8 days later.

Good for her, NK, but does anything satisfy you as a factual presentation on Canadian health care? The link I furnished showing a 293 day wait time for a knee replacement at the Kingston General Hospital came straight from your government.

P.S. You should find it disturbing just knowing your government has to set up a website for Canadian citizens to check on wait times.

[NeedKarma]

The link I furnished showing a 293 day wait time for a knee replacement at the Kingston General Hospital .

No it doesn't. It doesn't show that at all. Do you even visit the pages you link to??

[speechlesstx]

No it doesn't. It doesn't show that at all. Do you even visit the pages you link to????

I'm not that stupid, NK, the page must have expired or something. Here's the pdf attached. I'm still amazed you don't find it disturbing that your government has to even list wait times.

[inthebox]

Hello again:

Dudes....

In response to the right wing screed that the government is going to ration health care, I've argued here many times, that insurance companies ALREADY ration care. I've pointed out that our system of paid for health care itself, rations care to those who can afford it. Plus, what I haven't mentioned, is that your own doctor, by himself and WITHOUT any government intervention, rations your medical care.

Health care ALL over the world IS rationed. That's just so. There are MORE people needing care, than there are people providing it. It ain't no different here. Get over it. THIS law is an attempt to serve MORE people with limited care. Does that mean, that even here, in this great country of ours, that if you need a knee replaced, you might have to wait longer than you'd like, so we can take care of the people who need emergency care? I think it does.

I'm fine with that.

excon

The rationing, because there is finite resources that can't meet the demand, in Obamacare - is coming from the government. You're a vet - I've worked in the VA system. The VA hospital is, more often than not, not local but hour[s] away depending on what part of the country your in. Medication formularies are limited. You should know all this.

If we went to a mandatory catastrophic coverage only system, and increase flex accounts, not limit them, and increase HSAs for everything else - each individual rations his own healthcare dollars as they see fit - without a huge money sucking government or private insurance company in the mix.

I thought you were a libertarian?

We would still have health departments, medicaid for the truly needy.

Speaking of rationing : do the math:

Limited physician and nurse supply, dwindling birthrates and a lesser percent of the population that is productive [ about40% or more do not pay any federal income tax ]

Plus

Increasing demand: baby boomers now medicare age, 30- 50 million more people now on government dependency program. Illegals?

Does not equal lower costs or even stable costs but RATIONING AND WAITING LISTS BY THE GOVERNMENT.



G&P

[smoothy]

I wonder if Robert Gibbs is dumb enough to believe the propaganda he is expected to regurgitate in front of reporters... or if he's just a liar who will say anything he's told to say by his party.

[speechlesstx]

limited physician and nurse supply, dwindling birthrates and a lesser percent of the population that is productive [ about40% or more do not pay any federal income tax ]

Just reported on Wednesday, almost half of US households pay no federal income tax.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

"We have 50 percent of people who are getting something for nothing," said Curtis Dubay, senior tax policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

I must be doing something wrong, I'm still paying my own way.

[excon]

almost half of US households pay no federal income tax.

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah. The middle class is disappearing. You don't pay any taxes when the factory you used to work for closed down, and now you're flipping burgers for Wendy's.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

Well this affordable health care is going to break me.

Just got our company insurance statement for this coming year, they are raising the rates at least 50 percent, soif you were paying 400 a month, now you will be paying 600 a month. A lot of workers don't know how they will be able to keep their insurance.

[smoothy]

That's the price of having to pay for all the other people that will get it for free.

Democrats believe that is fair somehow.

[excon]

Thats the price of having to pay for all the other people that will get it for free. Democrats believe that is fair somehow.

Hello again, smoothy:

As we've discussed, your fire department is a perfect example of socialism at work. It just so happens to be socialism you LIKE, though. Tell me, if your town has to raise taxes to pay for the fire department, do you get pissed at the people who had their fires put out for FREE?

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

As we've discussed, your fire department is a perfect example of socialism at work. It just so happens to be socialism you LIKE, though. Tell me, if your town has to raise taxes to pay for the fire department, do you get pissed at the people who had their fires put out for FREE?

excon

Make the 48% of the Anerican public that pay absolutely NO federal taxes NOW pay them and we might have a discussion here.

Why should the lazy 48% gert something FREE while the 52% that actually pay taxes have to pay everything. Except fopr Congress that exempts themselves... and Hollywood who doesn't do their share even if THEY are grossly overpaid.

And exactly since when do Fire Departments get paid by the Federal Government.

95% of the fire departments where I have ever lived get no pay at all... or any tax reimbursement at all. They are volunteer, and raise their own money for equipment.

If you like Socialism so damn much... hand over ALL of your money to the government, you and all the other liberals... or is it like typical iberals... they are incredibly generous with everyone ELSE'S money... but not their own.

I suppose YOU don't contribute anything on Boot drives the Fire Depts hold... do you? And do you even KNOW a fireman... much less several?

[excon]

And exactly since when do Fire Departments get paid by the Federal Government. Why should the lazy 48% gert something FREE while the 52% that actualy pay taxes have to pay everything.

Hello again, smoothy:

As I explained earlier, socialism is an IDEA. It can be practiced on a national level, or on a local level, exactly like your fire department. It has nothing to do with the federal government. It has to do with pooling risk. You should know what these terms you bandy about mean.

So, I gather you DO get pissed at the lazy people who let their city or town put out their fires for them - for FREE. I understand..

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

As I explained earlier, socialism is an IDEA. It can be practiced on a national level, or on a local level, exactly like your fire department. It has nothing to do with the federal government. It has to do with pooling risk. You should know what these terms you bandy about mean.

So, I gather you DO get pissed at the lazy people who let their city or town put out their fires for them - for FREE. I understand..

excon

How is a fire department socialist? I get pissed at the Lazy people who pay no taxes... contribute little to the community... and yet suck it dry begging for handouts they think they are owed.

Lazy people don't join the fire department, its too much like real work, which it is, and they are too special to work for wages on par with their education, experience, and ability level... they rarely make good neighbors, cause MOST of the crime the police have to deal with... and always cause our taxes to be far higher then they should be.

Most firemen in the country do not draw a paycheck from the fire dept... they all have other jobs. Its usually in the larger cities where too many lazy people tend to congregate to have enough volunteers that you find paid firemen.

[Catsmine]

Hello again, smoothy:

As I explained earlier, socialism is an IDEA. It can be practiced on a national level, or on a local level, exactly like your fire department. It has nothing to do with the federal government. It has to do with pooling risk. You should know what these terms you bandy about mean.

So, I gather you DO get pissed at the lazy people who let their city or town put out their fires for them - for FREE. I understand..

excon

We don't have any of those. The municipal Fire Department is paid from City property taxes.

Socialism is about the ownership and control of the means of production of goods, not the provision of a service.
Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com

[excon]

Socialism is about the ownership and control of the means of production of goods, not the provision of a service.

Hello again, Cats:

Then you guys are going to have to stop calling the health care law socialized medicine, cause that's a service. The service the fire department produces is putting out fires. The means of production of that service, are wholly owned by the government. That's socialism too, like it or not.

Smoothy won't answer my question. Maybe you will. Does it piss you off that you pay for the service that saves your neighbors house, and he doesn't pay any more than you do? Smoothy doesn't see the connection to the recently passed health care law? I'll bet you do.

excon

[Catsmine]

Hello again, Cats:

Then you guys are going to have to stop calling the health care law socialized medicine, cause that's a service. The service the fire department produces is putting out fires. The means of production of that service, are wholly owned by the government. That's socialism too, like it or not.

Smoothy won't answer my question. Maybe you will. Does it piss you off that you pay for the service that saves your neighbors house, and he doesn't pay any more than you do? Smoothy doesn't see the connection to the recently passed health care law? I'll bet you do.

excon

The recently enacted bill deals with Insurance coverage, a product.

It doesn't bother me a bit if they put my neighbor's house out. They keep it from spreading to my house and prevent me from smelling burnt house for months.

[cdad]

Food for thought on firefighter issues.

Ref:

An Onymous Lefty: Fire Department Stands On Principle, leaves house of non-member to burn down