[Aurora_Bell]

Hahaha Altenweg! People like that are ignorant, they are probably idiots in other aspects of life as well.

Lucky, I was telling the OP that it wasn't a good idea to get a 4 week old puppy because it is more likely that dogs who leave their pack before 8 weeks have higher tendencies to be aggressive and have behaviour problems. Not that all dogs do, but most do.
I then gave ideas on how to avoide that problem.
The way humans treat their puppy's and the way a pup is treated in it's 'pack' environment are completley different. You are lucky that your situation ended the way it did.
I was on maternity leave when I adopted a 3 week old pup, who ended up with SEVER aggression and fear biting issues. My story did not end so well.
Supporting people who sell or give away 4 week old puppy's is being a part of the problem.

[Lucky098]

I'm not supporting anyone who sells 4wk old puppies... just stating that its not impossible to do. My puppies aren't even allowed to leave to there new homes until the puppies are 12wks. There have been many people who slammed the phone down upset because they're under the impression that in order to have a strong bond with a dog it needs to be purchased at 4wks.

I don't support the idea of people buying infant puppies... just stating that its not impossible to do depending on how much time you want to invest in a puppy. With kaia, she wanted to be held constantly. When she turned 8wks, she became more adventurous... it was almost like a premature born baby.

But I do not in any way support 4wk old puppies being sold because I do know a lot of behavior problems follow that. Anytime I get the chance I try and educate people on why.

I once read that there was a study in cali. A litter was born and one of the puppies was displaying strange behavior. A study was conducted on that pup for up to 6 months. The study showed this pup was showing behaviors equal to a person who exibited psychopathic behavior. She was overly aggressive towards littermates and humans. The dog ended up being put down due to severe anxiety and aggression at 6months of age. The puppies and mom were all kept together, no one was isolated in a white room... but I thought that was interesting...

[Aurora_Bell]

Yes all cases aren't the same. Just like a person growing up with their parents having good jobs, coming from a "rich" area of town, having an education, doesn't mean they will nesessarly excel to their fullest potential as a human. There are exceptions to every rule. I was just advising, while not impossible, it's usually not the best idea.

[kctiger]

Update: So I got the pup a couple of weeks ago. I am already starting to feel like this was a huge mistake. I never realized the amount of work that goes into this. I have little patience to deal with her in the morning as well... she always starts to cry and wake me up once someone else in the house gets up - feels like she is missing out on something I guess. At any rate, I get irritated and it starts my day off badly. She won't eat from her dog bowl unless I put her food in the bigger dog's bowl... I have gotten rough with her a couple of times and it breaks my heart (I don't mean I have hit her, just jerked her a little bit - or smacked her on the nose a couple of times)... I have zero problem putting up with her at night, but it seems like in the mornings we always get started on the wrong foot. I feel like a total failure right now... my parents babysit her during the day so I don't have to kennel her (too young for that right now). So I get her on the nights and weekends. I just don't know what to do to get her to become more behaved towards me. When she is old enough (another month) I am enrolling her in obedience courses to help us bond... but right now it is all I can do to not pull my hair out. Any advice or help?

I just feel like a lot of my time is spent telling her no and pushing her away from certain things.

[Aurora_Bell]

Well, that's puppy's for you. Didn't you realize that puppy's are a lot of work? Didn't you read all the things people posted especially about husky puppy's?
She is like a little baby, and she needs guidance and care, and love.
All puppy's wake up early, their bladders are small and they have little to no control over them. She probably needs to go pee. Which is a really good thing that she is waking you up to let you know. She IS doing her job as a puppy. The more hatful you become of this, thebetter your chances are of having a troublesome dog. A puppy is a life style change, just like a baby.
Remember hitting her and getting rough or violent is only going to cause her to be fearful of you, not respectful. When she becomes fearful she will have more tendencies to fear bite, become aggressive or cower when ever you are around. Would you want to live with someone you feard? Wondering if you do the wrong thing you were going to get hit?
She is going to be mischevous, and rambunctious, and playful, that's the joys of owning a puppy.
I hate waking up at 5 am EVERY morning to take my dog for a walk to pee and get some excersise before she is crated for the day. But guess what? It needs to be done.

[Justwantfair]

Puppies are work, they can really be worth it in the end, but it can be a struggle. Of course, without the struggle in puppihood, you would not have a well behaved dog.

How are your parents dealing with her during the day? Where are you crating her? Can it be in another part of the house where she doesn't readily wake to morning movements until you are ready for her morning routine?

[kctiger]

Puppies are work, they can really be worth it in the end, but it can be a struggle. Of course, without the struggle in puppihood, you would not have a well behaved dog.

How are your parents dealing with her during the day? Where are you crating her? Can it be in another part of the house where she doesn't readily wake to morning movements until you are ready for her morning routine?

She is crated at night in my room. She is awesome in her crate and loves to sleep. It is just a matter of hearing the other dog get up and she starts going nuts because she wants to go play with the other dog (although the other dog is much more mature and doesn't play in the same manner). I guess I am just struggling to understand her and work with her... it is a learning experience for both of us.

She is a super fast learner though. She already alerts me to go outside by going directly to the back door. I have also gotten her used to being walked a bit... smart dog she is.

[Aurora_Bell]

Hey I didn't write in here syaing how frustrated I was because my PUPPY wakes up in the morning.
I was giving you some advice captain Rude-o.
Not sure where you get the snarky-butt attitude from, but it sucks.
Sorry you're on the defensive.

[Cat1864]

KC, you aren't a failure. You are new puppy owner who is learning with his puppy. At least you realize you need help.

Here's a command that you can start working on with her right now: Leave it.

Start with having a treat in one hand (she will not be getting this treat). Have a another hidden treat in your other hand (this is the treat she will be getting). Show her your closed hand with the 'bait' treat in it. Let her smell it (if she tries to mouth your hand, take your hand away) and tell her to 'Leave it' when she takes her nose away from your hand give her the 'hidden treat'. Keep doing that until you are sure she won't grab at the 'bait'. Then progress through open hand and even putting it on the floor, etc. You can slowly phase out the treats as it becomes habit. Once she learns the command you can use it for other items. Animals, etc. Get your parents to help with it. Remember she NEVER gets the 'bait'.

[kctiger]

Hey I didn't write in here syaing how frustrated I was becasue my PUPPY wakes up in the morning.
I was giving you some advice captain Rude-o.
Not sure where you get the snarky-butt attitude from, but it sucks.
Sorry you're on the defensive.

I deleted that post after I thought about it. I wasn't trying to offend.

Since you couldn't clearly read my post or the intention behind it, I'll explain. I am not frustrated my puppy wakes up - there is a deeper issue here of which you clearly cannot see. I was asking advice on how to be more patient with her and maybe get her to be more receptive to proper behavior - also on forms of disciplining her so that she will learn what things aren't acceptable.

If that is the way you are going to give advice, do it elsewhere. While the thought may count, I don't need your pretentious attitude while expressing your thoughts. You have been more than helpful in your previous posts, so if you can revert back to that, then good. This is all new to me so the, "I told you so attitude" won't work - I'm not some five year old you're talking to.

[kctiger]

KC, you aren't a failure. You are new puppy owner who is learning with his puppy. At least you realize you need help.

Here's a command that you can start working on with her right now: Leave it.

Start with having a treat in one hand (she will not be getting this treat). Have a another hidden treat in your other hand (this is the treat she will be getting). Show her your closed hand with the 'bait' treat in it. Let her smell it (if she tries to mouth your hand, take your hand away) and tell her to 'Leave it' when she takes her nose away from your hand give her the 'hidden treat'. Keep doing that until you are sure she won't grab at the 'bait'. Then progress through open hand and even putting it on the floor, etc. You can slowly phase out the treats as it becomes habit. Once she learns the command you can use it for other items. animals, etc. Get your parents to help with it. Remember she NEVER gets the 'bait'.

Cat I am deeply touched by your constant help. Thank you so much. I think this sounds marvelous.

To recap, she is actually pretty good about not chewing on certain things that would clearly be unacceptable - electrical chords, couches, etc. I must admit that she learns rather quickly, but she also tries to manipulate as well. If she does chew on these things I quickly pull her mouth away and replace a chewing toy in the place of the items... then I praise her for chewing on her toy.

I will try that training method, it sounds ingenious. I think she would be receptive to this.

**I acknowledge that I am making mistakes and that I want to learn how to be a better owner.

Does anyone have an idea of how to get her to eat out of her foodbowl? It is almost like she feels a constant need to dominate the bigger Lab.

[Cat1864]

To recap, she is actually pretty good about not chewing on certain things that would clearly be unacceptable - electrical chords, couches, etc. I must admit that she learns rather quickly, but she also tries to manipulate as well. If she does chew on these things I quickly pull her mouth away and replace a chewing toy in the place of the items...then I praise her for chewing on her toy.

You know I will give whatever help I can. :)

She sounds like a positively wonderful puppy. If she hasn't already, she may be learning that going after certain things gets your attention. Unfortunately, that is one problem that is hard to correct once they get into the habit, because ANY reaction is seen as 'attention'. Hopefully, the leave it command will distract her from actually getting into things she shouldn't.

Intelligent animals are great to work with, but hard to stay ahead of. I know you can do it. Just keep taking deep breaths and keep your sense of humor. Sometimes a good laugh helps relieve a lot of tension that can build up when you feel frustrated.

[Alty]

Hi KC. I'm so sorry that you're having a hard time with this. I'm not surprised though. Puppies are hard work and it takes some time to adjust, especially since this is your first puppy where you are responsible for everything.

I do have an idea about the feeding issue. At this time she needs to learn boundaries. Do not let her eat in the same room with the lab right now. She needs to learn her place and it's up to you to show her. Feed her in a separate room and always feed her after the lab has eaten and after you have eaten. The dominant dogs eat first and to her you are a dog, you want to establish that you are top dog. Also make her work for her food. Something as simple as telling her to sit (after teaching her that command) and then making her stay in the sit position until you allow her to eat. This will take some time though.

Dogs are pack members. Everything you do shows her what position she is in the pack. Dogs also need a pack leader. If no one steps up to that position she will. Because most dogs aren't leaders, this will cause her stress. But she cannot be a well rounded dog without a leader. You have to take on that role.

There are so many things you can do to make this happen, too much for me to write here. I will give you some tips that I hope will help.

First, screaming, hitting or losing your patience will only make her afraid. It won't teach her a thing. It's like you're working with someone that cannot see or hear. Screaming means nothing to her, she doesn't understand what you're saying. She needs to learn what you expect from her by repetition and praise. You said that she already asks to go outside to pee. How did you accomplish that? Think about it. I'm guessing you showed her what you want and praised her when she did it. She associated going pee outside with affection from you. She really is eager to please you, all dogs are. Patience is key.

Remember, puppies do grow up to be dogs. What you do now will shape what she can become. I promise that this stage won't last forever. I know it can often be frustrating, I've had many puppies, but before you know it, she'll be a dog and you'll actually miss the puppy stage. ;)

If you get frustrated, do what all parents do, walk away, count to ten, calm down and then deal with the situation when you're calm. Being calm but assertive is very important, dogs can sense how we feel and they react to that. Try hard not to let your frustration show, but, if you do, don't be too hard on yourself. Dogs live in the moment, make every moment count. :)

I hope this helps a little bit.

[Alty]

You know I will give whatever help I can. :)

She sounds like a positively wonderful puppy. If she hasn't already, she may be learning that going after certain things gets your attention. Unfortunately, that is one problem that is hard to correct once they get into the habit, because ANY reaction is seen as 'attention'. Hopefully, the leave it command will distract her from actually getting into things she shouldn't.

Intelligent animals are great to work with, but hard to stay ahead of. I know you can do it. Just keep taking deep breaths and keep your sense of humor. Sometimes a good laugh helps relieve a lot of tension that can build up when you feel frustrated.

I still remember the first time we left Indy alone for a few hours. He was around 4 months old and we went to a friends place. We were gone 3 hours or so and we have closed off the kitchen so he couldn't get into anything.

Well, he escaped. When we got home he had chewed up the blown out painted easter eggs that we had made (I still don't know how he got them off the dining table), 5 remote controls and a phone. I was furious! I yelled, because I was mad and that's what humans do. He was so scared that he peed and then ran upstairs.

R and I cleaned up the mess, calmed down. At this point I hadn't see the phone that he chewed up. So, calm and collected I went upstairs to find Indy. He was on my bed, the phone in his mouth, happily chewing away. I once again got upset, raised my voice "Indy, drop that!" and he peed all over my bed.

R came upstairs, saw the phone, was about to yell when I quietly said "Don't. He'll pee even more. We've scared him. Take him outside to see if he's done peeing".

After cleaning the bedding I started to laugh. It was our fault, not his. We should have crated him, and we should have kept our calm.

I still have one of the remotes he chewed up. Now that he's 14 years old, I really miss those puppy days. He can barely get up the stairs now. I wish he'd go after the remote and the phone, just to show some spunk. ;)

[Aurora_Bell]

I find myself saying this more often, how can you tell what my attitude was?
See that's the problem with typing, you can't READ emotion.
I am sorry that it came of as pretentious, that was NOT was I was aiming for. So, sorry again.
So I will put my feelings aside, even though I feel that I need to defend Myself now, I won't. But I will mention, that I was only trying to explain the re precussions of hitting a dog out of frustration. Maybe I could have worded it better, but I wanted to be blunt.
So, the best things about puppy's are how receptive they can be.
But one thing that caught my eye was how you said she won't eat unles you put her food in the big dogs dish, this COULD be an early sign of dominence, which you will need to nip now.
I am a stikcler for protocols for relaxation and deference. What Cat suggested is a great start. I would start with the sit command right now. So to teach her to sit (with out forcing her to) take your kibble or treat and put it above her nose so she has to look up at it, but keep it close to her face, slowly move it back wards so she kind of falls on her bottom, the result being her sitting, this is where LOTS of praise and reward comes in. You can do this all day long, but make sure to give pleanty of rest in between. I like to start with puppy's training for 5 minutes, then rest and play drink of water etc, wait a bit and then go again.
It IS frustrating when they don't comprehend what you want, but basically they just don't speak english :)
It could take one day or 2 weeks, but once you get the sit command down, make her sit for everything. Sit before she gets fed, sit before she walks, sit before she gets pet, before a treat, etc etc. There is a great web site on the protocols for defernece and relaxation. I will find it and post it later. It's mainly used for behavior modification, but will work for pretty much anything. It's great because it is the fisrt thing you learn in behavior mod, and you can do it from home.
Do you walk her when you get home from work? Does she get lots ofplay time before bed with the other dog?

[Justwantfair]

KC, you are a new parent now. Single father if you will. You will learn patience and the bond will come.

For a while there will be irritating changes to your routine, but I bet you could welcome them into your life for the time being. I don't have lots of time, but I know you can do this.

[Catsmine]

I find my self saying this more often, how can you tell what my attitude was?
See that's the problem with typing, you can't READ emotion.
I am sorry that it came of as pretentious, that was NOT was I was aiming for. So, sorry again.
So I will put my feelings aside, even though I feel that I need to defend MY self now, I won't. But I will mention, that I was only trying to explain the re precussions of hitting a dog out of frustration. Maybe I could have worded it better, but I wanted to be blunt.

Sorry to go off topic, here, but I think this needs to be addressed. Aurora, you've read enough of my answers to realize that I put a lot of effort into being snarky and sarcastic, but only when the tone of the conversation calls for it. I've seen KC out-snark me when it was called for.

This big a website means that there are too many situations for cookie-cutter reactions to be correct all the time. This example of hitting a dog. Is it always bad? Pretty close. I can think of situations when it's necessary, though, such as fights and attacks.

Am I always right when I think sarcasm is appropriate? Ask Synnen. She's deleted more of my posts than the other mods. Am I going to keep on? Sarah Palin moment - You Betcha!

[Justwantfair]

I think when you put a post out there like this, you know you are vulnerable, but that doesn't mean you wish for an attack and you will more easily feel attacked.

KC is saying that he is frustrated and insecure about his choice, I think that upfront honesty is to be commended. Even if you have to choose your words wisely, I read the remorse in the first post. Remorse doesn't not equal room for cookie cutter responses. In my opinion.

[Alty]

I just want to add something here. We all know KC well. We know what kind of person he is, we're all friends with him. Aurora doesn't know him from Adam.

When we read KC's post we all saw it for what it was because of how well we know KC. Had it been someone else, we may have reacted differently.

I'm just saying to cut Aurora some slack. :)

Having said that, let's move forward, okay? I think that Aurora has a lot to offer this site. We all have moments when we let our emotions or opinions get the better of us. I definitely can't cast stones at anyone for that. I don't think any of us can.

Bygones? Okay?

[Aurora_Bell]

Ok, got it. Didn't think it was a cookie cutter response, how ever the reason it may have sounded pretentious was because he wasn't talking about his dog fighting, he was talking about jerking his dog out of frustration, which we all know where that leads. THAT was all I was trying to convey, I was not trying to give a cookie cutter answer, or sound rude.
I volunteer at a shelter, one of our last additions is a wonderful dog, except when he is around men. When ever a man approches his kennel either as a potential new owner or just to clean it or go for a walk, Marco cowers, tail tucked between his legs, ears back, he gets so nervous that he actually pees right there, he gets so distraught over making the mess he lays there rolls onto his back in a submissive position. It breaks my heart seeing that.
It was the post that was deleted that made me feel defensive.
Anyway, I do have experience with puppy's so if KC still wants my input, I will more careful to not sound rude, or give cookie cutter answers, I'd be glad to, if not, I'll butt out.
Anyway,
Congrats and good luck!