[Tokugawa]

You say that only because you have never been outside of time. Once you have been outside of time and find what you say is true, let me know and I will accept your conclusion. Meanwhile, you don't know.

What you are saying is self-evidently nonsense. Perhaps I should step out of possible conception in order to conceive of something? What an absurdity. There are many beautiful possibilities, "eternity" is not one of them.

[Tokugawa]

Time, is never time at all,
You can never ever leave,
Without leaving a piece of youth.

-Billy Corgan

[ItsUp2Me]

Time is that infinitesimal nano-second that separates Alpha from Omega (eternity). It is the here and now. Beyond it is either the future or the past. In reality beauty does not exist. It is like everything else, it's in the mind of the beholder. It is a creation. But before any creation can occur something must be destroyed. When the heavens and the earth and all therein were created, it was necessary that the void be destroyed, darkness was destroyed, cold or the absence of heat was destroyed, evil was destroyed. Then came God and Satan and finally man. Man has to choose between the good side of the Creator and his bad side, for the Creator was God and God consists of both good and evil. We know this because man was created in God's image. Therefore, whatever good there exists and whatever evil exists, God is responsible for; man simply selects one or the other. When was Satan created, and who created him. Check that one out in the Bible. When was God created, who created Him. Check that one out while you're in the Bible. I don't believe you will find an answer to either. Thus we have the great mystry of life.
_______
ItsUp2Me

[Wondergirl]

What you are saying is self-evidently nonsense. Perhaps I should step out of possible conception in order to conceive of something? What an absurdity. There are many beautiful possibilities, "eternity" is not one of them.

Rather than resort to put-downs, if you were truly interested in a legitimate discussion, you would have gently explained that "experience" does indeed have a beginning and eventually may have an end. "Experience" is a process of knowing, starting on a linear scale (e.g. a Likert scale) from a not-knowing place that eventually grows into increasing degrees of knowing.

[TUT317]

Rather than resort to put-downs, if you were truly interested in a legitimate discussion, you would have gently explained that "experience" does indeed have a beginning and eventually may have an end. "Experience" is a process of knowing, starting on a linear scale (e.g., a Likert scale) from a not-knowing place that eventually grows into increasing degrees of knowing.

Hi Wondergirl,

Unfortunately experience doesn't have a beginning or end. We can conceive of any event forwards or backwards indefinitely. Experience can be exemplified by the question,"Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" We can attempt to answer this question forwards or backwards indefinitely.

The problem is that we tend to look at time as some type of physical entity. That is it is something that exists,"out there" and is part of the physical world.

The idea at this stage is that time is not made up of anything. It is neither an event or a physical thing. It is a psychological disposition that we all have. We necessarily impose time on our experiences.

P.S. I worked out how a cat sits on its brisket.

Tut

[Wondergirl]

Hi Wondergirl,

Unfortunately experience doesn't have a beginning or end.

Of course it does. It is totally entwined with the concept of time. In 1980 I had never worked in a public library and did not know the classification system. A year later, I was hired by a public library and shelved books. My (emotional, practical, theoretical, spiritual, and intellectual) experience in library work began on September 3, 1981. Since then, I have worked in various capacities in Libraryland. On the day I retire (soon), my library experience will end.

P.S. I worked out how a cat sits on its brisket.

And what did you come up with?

[TUT317]

Hi again Wondergirl,

Experience was not a good starting place for my explanation. Although experience is part of the explanation. What you say about your experience is right, but in philosophy it is more a technical term.

Let's look at what Hume would say. If I take a ball and toss it into the air, how do I know that it will fall to the ground? The reality is I don't know what it will do. It could do anything. It could travel 1,000 feet into the air. It could just hang in the air for two hours.

If I toss the ball into the air enough times and see it fall to the ground enough times then EXPERIENCE begins to tell me something about what happens to a ball when it is tossed into the air, i.e.. It falls to the ground. Newton would be able to provide a mathematical explanation as to why this happens.

What we are really talking about here is CAUSE and EFFECT. Now some people would be tempted to say the cause of the ball going into the air was me throwing it, i.e.. The first cause.
However, this is incorrect. There was no first cause. We could argue that the cause of me throwing the ball into the air was to have a game with my daughter. The cause of me having a game with my daughter was her desire to test out her had eye coordination. The cause of her hand eye ability is genetic.

As you can see this chain could go on almost indefinitely



In regards to a cat sitting on his brisket.
The front feet get folded back underneath the brisket. The back feet also get folded underneath and the tail wraps around... How was that?

Tut

[Wondergirl]

In regards to a cat sitting on his brisket.
The front feet get folded back underneath the brisket. The back feet also get folded underneath and the tail wraps around..... How was that?

Or the cat's front legs can fold up under the front of his brisket and his front feet will rest sticking out of the front. Think sphinx -- or look at the photo of Lady Jane Grey (my avatar).

[TUT317]

Hi Wondergirl,
Thanks for your help. Actually I have never owned a pet cat.

Just as a matter for my own interest. Does what I write make sense? You don't have to believe it, but I was wondering if it is understandable.

Tut

[Wondergirl]

Hi Wondergirl,
Thanks for your help. Actually I have never owned a pet cat.

Just as a matter for my own interest. Does what I write make sense? You don't have to believe it, but I was wondering if it is understandable.

Tut

Are you a native English speaker?

Have you ever seen a cat sit like my avatar is sitting?

(This is off-topic, so I will not follow-up with anything.)

[harmonybox]

Hmmm... great question. I would suggest some form of kinetic energy was and still is; eternally in motion and acted upon by whatever manifests within that state of being.

I wish there was some way to peer into that quantum 'space' that seemingly perpetuates all of the universe and beyond. Even that is inaccurate to describe it, but how do you find the words to answer a question like that?

I would imagine it could only exist in higher dimension than our limited 3D perspective. I do believe this... that if there is an absolute truth it lies in that answering that question.