[Old Beach House]

Hello,

I seem to be having a similar problem as other people but I still cannot decide what to do. I have an old house and I need to upgrade the Load Center to 200A. If I run the conduit in the attic to the nearest closet, there will be 17’ of conduit in the attic plus the additional 3’ down to the Load Center. I have read in a forum that there needs to be 30” of clear wall space above the Load Center, is this accurate? I have a feeling that the inspector will not go for anything over 10’ from the Meter to the Load Center. I had the building inspector on the phone and asked him about this. His response was “Pull the permit, submit the drawing, and I will let you know if it is ok”. I live in Flagler County Florida. If I run the conduit outside, it will have to go around the corner and into the front of the house, an ugly thought.
I can use a Square D QC816F200C Meter Can with 8 spaces and a 200A breaker to the main panel in the closet. Also, an additional breaker, maybe 125A to the detached garage, but this would mean that I have at the Meter Can a Main Heavy Duty 200A lug to a Light Duty 200A breaker in one of the 8 spaces and then to the Main Heavy Duty 200A Breaker in the Load Center in the closet. So I will have three 200A breakers in series, Heavy Duty, Light Duty, and Heavy Duty respectively. Wow, what a cluster *#.
The other option is to use an outdoor rainproof Meter and Main Panel Combination. This would also eliminate having the wiring for the garage go all the way into the house and then back out. Using the Square D QC816F200C Meter Can with 8 spaces seems like an OK choice, but none of these options seem very appealing. What would you suggest doing?

Thank You

[KISS]

Your misinterpreting the spec: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/electr...ns-431169.html

There needs to be a 30" wide x 6.5' clear space in front of the panel. No closets.

Yes, there is a limit between the meter and the panel and it's pretty short. However, that limit can be extended to the point it doesn't matter, if there is a fused disconnect outside near the meter.

Also see here: Meter to Breaker Panel Distance [Archive] - DoItYourself.com Community Forums

The power company may specify EXACTLY what meter bases can and cannot be used. Here, they must have an approved sticker on them. If you buy from a local supply house, they will.

[Old Beach House]

So are you saying that with the main disconnect at the meter I can have the Load Center in the closet or even as a sub-panel it cannot be in the closet? Do you recommend any other main disconnect than the Square D QC816F200C? How do you feel about the outside Combination Meter/Load Center Panels? There's just something about having the Load Center outside that bothers me. On the other hand it may be the solution that best fits.

[stanfortyman]

Since you need a sub-feed breaker to the garage, and you have a far distance inside the house to the panel, a meter/main feed-through is a great idea.

Thing is, you do not need three 200A breakers. You only need the ONE in the meter main. The house panel will use the feed-through lugs at the bottom of the outside panel, and you do NOT need one inside the house in the panel.
I am not sure what you mean by heavy duty and light duty. Breakers are not listed this way.

The panel can be in a utility closet, but NOT in a clothes closet or any closet where "easily ignitable material" is stored.

[Old Beach House]

The salesman at the electrical supply place told me that there was no way feed-through the outside panel and I had to go through a breaker that I would add one of the 8 spaces in the Square D QC816F200C. What I mean by Heavy or light duty is that a breaker added to one of the 8 spaces is small in size. He showed me what a main breaker that is for a load center looks like and it was huge. They were both 200A but one was three or four times the size.

[stanfortyman]

I see. He was selling you a meter-main and not a meter-main feed-thru.
The latter has full sized lugs out the bottom so you sent the potential full 200A to the house panel without having to use another breaker. This setup is MUCH cleaner, easier and cheaper.

Here is an example: http://www.milbankmfg.com/Products/C...s/PDF/5168.pdf
I have used this unit many times.

[Old Beach House]

Yes, I can see in the picture of the Meter Main in your link that it has two lugs at the bottom of the rails. I wonder if the Square D QC816F200C has the same thing and the salesman just didn't know. I am trying to stick with all Square D (Not the Home Line) but if they cannot provide me with the right equipment I will use the Meter Can that you do. It looks like the brand is MilBank. So, I should use a Main Meter Can and Disconnect like this one with a Load Center in the closet that does not have a main breaker? Then I will have one 200A breaker! Correct me if I'm wrong. As long as I have the 200A breaker at the meter outside, I can put the Sub-Load Center in the clothes closet with the conduit in the attic as far away as I want, in this case 17'. In addition, I will have to separate the ground from the neutral in the Sub-Load Centers in both the closet and the garage. Then how many grounding rods do I need, only one at the Meter Main?

Thank You

[tkrussell]

I am just starting to go through this thread, and I must comment on this one detail now , and Stan has already cautioned against this:

I can put the Sub-Load Center in the clothes closet Thank You

If this home is located anywhere in the USA,

You CANNOT install a panelboard in a Clothes Closet, period.

[Old Beach House]

Well then that’s a dilemma. The Main Load Center was installed in the clothes closet in 1952, and then upgraded at some unknown time to a whopping 70A panel in the same clothes closet. The job was done very poorly I might add. There is no utility room, and the hot water heater is outside on the back patio. The only other place to put a panel is in the pantry. Wherever I put it inside the house, I was planning on framing it out because all of the interior walls are concrete block with a concrete finish. I would lose 4” of the pantry and it might also look ugly. The only other option is an outside combination panel and nobody has commented on whether they are a good idea. Personally I don’t feel right about the panel being outside.

[tkrussell]

The code has evolved over the years, and changes have been made as issues arose.

It was learned, probably due to fires, that panels located in closets get covered by the clothes, and at times, anytime, a panel can get hot enough to start a fire with all the combustibles pushed up against the panel.

Having a panel outdoors is fine, as long as the enclosure is rated NEMA 3R (Rain Tight). Done often, esp when there is no good location inside.

The panel cover will have a hasp to install a padlock, if that is the issue.

Any panel inside will need 30 inch wide clearance in front of the panel, and this 30 inch wide space does not need to be center of the panel, can start at either left or right edge. The panel shall have 6.5 feet for headroom in front, with some exceptions allowed.

[Old Beach House]

The pantry is 30” between the left and right shelves, but it would be 25” deep with a 24” door. I still don't care for that idea but, if I wanted to, would that be acceptable? It sounds like I need to give in and accept that the outside panel maybe the way to go.

[tkrussell]

If the panel in the pantry does not have 30 inch wide clearance, then looks like outdoors is the only option.

By the way, the outdoor panel requires the 30 inch wide clearance also.

To be clear, all panelboards, no matter where located, require the 30 in wide, 36 in front, and 6.5 feet headroom, as minimums.

[Old Beach House]

Then the 36” in front rules out the pantry because of the 24” door. I guess it must go outside. I hope the rainproof box can seal out the ocean air.

Thanks for your help.

One more quick note, I want to run all the wires in the attic in one of those square type conduit troughs that the top can be removed instead of all the wires just lying there across the beams at any angle. Are there any codes that have been added affecting the wires in the attic?

[KISS]

To be clear, all panelboards, no matter where located, require the 30 in wide, 36 in front, and 6.5 feet headroom, as minimums.

Is that a 30" wide, 36" deep and 6.5' high clear area in front of the panel, non-centered?

For the OP, remember hat not all panelboards look the same. Hallways are a typical location in commercial and residential settings with a flush mount panelboard.

If this is a historic house, there may be other aesthetic issues.

My grandparents had a very small surface mounted breaker box in a paneled living room.

[Old Beach House]

The house isn't Historic as far as I know. It's just a little 832 square foot Beach Cottage. I considered the fact that maybe the local Building Inspector would be willing to consider some things Grandfathered in, but I should probably just do the job to the current codes. Even non-centered, the pantry is only 25” deep with a 24” door. I could mount it to the block wall in the hallway and build a box around it, but I don't know if I would like that. My hallway is very wide; a piece of furniture can go there instead.

[KISS]

It almost looks like outside it is, then. Also remember that all junctions must be accessible. You may be replacing your original box with a big junction box.

[tkrussell]

This is correct:

Is that a 30" wide, 36" deep and 6.5' high clear area in front of the panel, non-centered?

The 30 inch wide clear space does not need to be centered on any panel or electricla equipment, it can begin at either the left or right side edge of the equipment.