[morgaine300]

If you look at my original positing in 1/2/10, it pretty much says it all, and explains what I am trying to do.

No, actually it doesn't, because I think we have some vocabulary problems. That is, you might know what you mean, but I've never gotten a distinction on what exactly you were trying to do.

I have been told that formatting a drive does not erase the data, but rather codes it as able to be over written. This is why there are programs that can retrieve data from a formatted disk. Perhaps I misunderstood this.

If you do a format in Windows, you get a message saying that it will "erase" all the data on the drive. Again, vocabulary issues. The vast majority of the time when someone is speaking of erasing data or deleting data, they're meaning exactly what this is referring to - it makes the space available to you. It does not "destroy" everything. (Destroy is a good term.) I don't know the official terms for the two, if there are any. Even if there are any, I'm sure an awful lot of people use them wrong, which is why you have to be clear. (That's why I wasn't quite sure what you were wanting to do, or why.)

So let's call "erase" the typical usage and typical thing we do all the time - just getting rid of stuff to be written over. And "destroy" will be to absolute get rid of everything, completely destroyed, can't get it back, and what you'd want to do if you had sensitive info that could be gotten back.

It sounds like you want to destroy everything. I'm trying to figure out why. I've only ever done that twice. Once was when I got a new hard drive to use for those images I do, and something got read incorrectly on the drive when I put it in and wouldn't read. So it was suggested I "destroy" everything. That worked. The other time when when I had a virus, and formatting everything and reinstalling Windows did not get rid of it. So I destroyed everything and even made the partitions a different size. That worked, so something was hiding somewhere that a typical format didn't get rid of.

Normally I just format the thing. It sounds like you're just moving things around and not sure why you find it necessary to destroy everything, unless of course the BIOS or Windows is having trouble with it.

I basically have 4 related questions (as in original post). At this point, I don't need to wipe anything. I used a hammer and did it the old fashioned way.

Are you serious? Oooohhh... are you tossing this drive? Is that why you're so concerned about really destroying everything? I certainly didn't get that out of what you said - thought you moved it from one computer to another. Throwing away a perfectly good hard drive. Aak! I can't handle tossing parts - gives me the shivers.

and just understand how to use the one I have (Disk Director).

Um... apparently not?

1) I use Acronis Disk Director, which has a wipe function. It will not wipe a drive or partition that has data on it. The wipe button is grayed out. Even if I format a drive or partition, it will not wipe. It will only wipe unallocated space. Why?

Don't know. Just sounds like the way they made that option. Since clear will delete partitions, I don't know why wipe can't.

2) So, that created the 2nd question, what the heck is unallocated space? I have googled it and can't get a clear and simple answer. Just that it is space with nothing on it. So what is the difference between formatted space and unallocated space?

They aren't directly related. Formatted "prepares" the space for usage. I'd assume most, if not all, new drives are already formatted. Years ago, floppies weren't - you had to format them before use. But you only have to do it once, though formatting is used as a quickie erase instead of manually deleting everything. You'd also have to do it again if you want a different file system.

MY understanding of unallocated (which may be incorrect) is that you haven't made a partition yet. Even with only one bootable partition, you have to still tell it to make it a logical partition, make it active, etc. (This is assuming it wasn't done at some point - if something had Windows on there, that was already done. And an XP disk might do it automagically, I don't know.)

Like I can say make 10% of this thing my logical partition (where you'd put C), and then tell it nothing about the other 90% and that 90% is still unallocated. In disk management it would be like gray. What you should see now is a colored box around the whole thing.

Oh, well, I'm thinking of Partition Magic, sorry. My logical drive doesn't have a box around it. But the bar across the top is a darker blue. Then the extended partition (where D - K are) has a green box around it, so it's separated as the extended partition. Then small gray boxes inside that for the partitions, and those have a lighter blue strip across the top. My second hard drive is all green cause it's all an extended partition -- it's not bootable and has no OS on it. All the partition boxes say stuff in them. If there were unallocated space, it would be separated and not say anything. In Partition Magic it's gray - don't know what it is in Disk Management cause I don't really use that much except to rename drives.

3) If Disk Director will only wipe unallocated space, how do you make a drive unallocated?

Jeez, I haven't done that in so long... I'm thinking Disk Management will do it. Years ago I got used to using fdisk for everything (DOS thing), and now I use Partition Magic for everything. Maybe the Delete? Not sure if that kind of formats it or actually dumps the partition. Not like I'm going to try it. ;)

In post #5, JB points out that Disk Director will delete a partition, and wipe the drive in one step. This is true, but what if you have a drive with a single partition? It won't wipe it.

It won't? That is just darn weird. Or was that part of that USB whatever it was you did problem?

4) An finally, What is the difference between wiping a drive, and clearing a drive? This is an option on page 55 of the User's Guide: Backup software for data backup and disaster recovery in Windows and Linux - Acronis

Well, it's clear to me that the "wipe" is what I was calling destroying. Having a hard time following the clear thing. Kind of sounds like what you'd use if you need to do a full drive with more than one partition, or perhaps even only one partition that's allocated. It does sound like it'll unallocated it (delete a partition). And it's giving you more choices, like just delete the partition, or delete and wipe. Is this what won't work with only one partition? Just don't see the logic there.

PS: Is there a small partition on a completely fresh drive that is needed for the drive to function. I cannot remember the acronim I heard (something like MTB?? ). If so will wiping the drive delete this information? And will formatting put it back?

I'm not quite positive what you are referring to. I don't know the technicalities behind this. I just know formatting prepares it to store data. I also know there's stuff taking up some space at the beginning, like the boot sector -- oh, you're talking about the MBS, master boot sector. AFAIK, wiping it would dump that too, yes. I'm not sure of the technicalities behind formatting, but... I think I can safely say it wouldn't put that type of thing on there. Partly cause I use it all the time just to delete junk and it's not going around changing boot sectors and such, just deleting stuff. Plus drives can be used for different things - my second hard drive, for instance, isn't bootable.

You know, it just struck me. The two times I had to destroy the entire drive, I didn't do anything special - I popped in the XP disk and followed the instructions. So perhaps it does do it all automagically. So that people like me forget how. :rolleyes: I used to do it with fdisk (from a bootable floppy).

Oops, didn't realize this had gotten so long.

[mitchsc]

Good Morning Morgaine,

I can't thank you enough for taking all the time to answer my questions. In reading your post, I am realizing that my original "simple" questions have grown into some sort of monster here.

Frankly, I'm not even sure what I want to know anymore.

Seems to me, I may have been combining several "related" but different questions into one post. Made it complicated and confusing for all, including me. Sorry about that.

To ease your mind, the HDD that I trashed was going bad. Bad sectors and really noisy bearings. So please don't mourn it's passing.

Yes, I may have had problems wiping a drive because it was protected. I don't even remember which drive it was any more.

Finally, in all these discussions, I realized that I needed clarification on terminology. That is what all the questions were about formatting vs unallocated. Perhaps Disk Director will wipe an allocated space. I don't have an extra HDD right now to try it.

I do remember once seeing in disk management, a hard drive that had 2 partitions, and one was unallocated.

BTW, the acronym I was trying to think of was MFT, master file table.

I am going to give this topic (and my brain) a rest. If I can get my hands on an extra HDD, I will play around with Disk Director and try to figure out how it works, and what their terms mean, like wipe vs clear.

Thanks again to all for your feedback... MSC

[morgaine300]

I can't thank you enough for taking all the time to answer my questions. In reading your post, I am realizing that my original "simple" questions have grown into some sort of monster here.

Don't let the kids know there's really monsters hiding under the bed.

Seems to me, I may have been combining several "related" but different questions into one post. Made it complicated and confusing for all, including me. Sorry about that.

Oh, don't apologize. It does get like that. I have a concept, but certainly no thorough understanding, cause it's all a little weird.

To ease your mind, the HDD that I trashed was going bad. Bad sectors and really noisy bearings. So please don't mourn it's passing.

Oh, well, that's OK then. Not worth trying to use it anyway. (Although I have a very old one that I can't part with, simply cause it's a Western Digital & it's just not fair for it to have bad sectors.)

I am going to give this topic (and my brain) a rest.

Sounds good. You can only tax your brain so long. (And I don't know about you, but mine's asleep at the moment.)

I'm sure I'll you around. :D