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87conquest · Jan 2, 2010, 05:48 PM

I was given a car from a shop with no title , 9 mo later the people who had basically abandoned the car sued the owner and lost as he said he gave the car to me. They have since gotten a judgment for over 3k against me but I was never given proper service as they apparently sent the summons/subpoena to my old address.Now some 2 yrs later I tried to refinance my home and became aware of the matter , but the person who gave me the car has since died from lung cancer so I have no witness to produce as to the time frame in which the said abandoned car was left .

I want this off my financial records and I'm am not willing to pay them a nickel , I live in Virginia, if anyone can help .

eyecue · Jan 2, 2010, 06:00 PM

What you need to do is look up the case that was filed against the person that gave you the car. Get the minutes from that case. Then look up the case that was filed against you and get the minutes to that one. Then you are going to have to file another case to overturn the verdict on the one that you lost. However, it maybe next to impossible to do because of the amount of time that has expired and the fact that the owner of the car has won by default. You will have to show defective service of summons and complaint. However it may have been published locally, you say that you live in VA? Was that where all this happened?

ScottGem · Jan 2, 2010, 06:16 PM

The correct answer here is to go back to the court that issued the judgment against you. You file a motion to vacate the judgment due to improper service.

Now what will probably happen is you will be served before you leave the courthouse and a new hearing on the case scheduled.

And herein lies your problem. Unless you have some proof that the car was abandoned at the repair shop and that the owner gave the car to you, you will probably lose. That the shop owner might have been able to file a claim for title due to abandonment, but he couldn't just give you the car. You made a big mistake by accepting that car.

What did you do with it?

Fr_Chuck · Jan 2, 2010, 07:00 PM

Well first if he car was abandoned, there is a specific set of laws that have to be followed for the owner of the repair shop to follow to give you the car ( in fact he can't really give it, he would be required to do a lien, take them to court and get a title to get rid of the car.

So you got the car illegally to start with. After that, with no title, there is no way to legally register the car or get plates for it. So you could never legally use the car that you have.

What type of paper work did he give you, a bill of sale of some sort, how have you gotten any tags on the car?

Also I can't see why they lost the case against the repair shop, seems they should have won,

Also the old address may be a legal address if that was the one the repair shop had at the time and they were and believed you lived there.

So you will have to prove at the time of service you had legally moved.
And of course they will merely serve you again, and the same questions as to how you could believe you could legally have the car may have to be answered to the judge also.

And agreed also, if they could not find you at the old address, they may have did service though publication and it was a valid serivce so until you go to the court house that has the judgement against you, there is no way to tell.

JudyKayTee · Jan 3, 2010, 10:43 AM

Absolutely agree with Scott - need to file a Motion to Dismiss based on lack of service (or bad service). As that Motion plays out you will get the info you need to proceed.

And as FrChuck said - there very well could be other circumstances at play here.

JudyKayTee · Jan 3, 2010, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by eyecue

What you need to do is look up the case that was filed against the person that gave you the car. Get the minutes from that case. Then look up the case that was filed against you and get the minutes to that one. Then you are going to have to file another case to overturn the verdict on the one that you lost. However, it maybe next to impossible to do because of the amount of time that has expired and the fact that the owner of the car has won by default. You will have to show defective service of summons and complaint. However it may have been published locally, you say that you live in VA? Was that where all this happened?

You continue to give incorrect legal advice. Please either do more/better research or quote your sources.

None of what you have posted is necessary in this case.

smoothy · Jan 4, 2010, 09:23 AM

Personally, if I was you and based on the sound advice given above by ScottGem, JudyKayTee and Fr_Chuck I would retain the services of a Lawyer in VA experienced in cases such as these. Yeah it will cost you some money but they will know what to do, how to do it and where as well as what NOT to do. If you act on your own behalf without council you are the one operating at the disadvantage as they DO have a lawyer working on their side.

And this is a good example of why I would not buy a vehicle or even accept even a free parts vehicle without valid transferable papers. (Such as title and bill of sale). If you hold a clear title then YOU would have the upper hand. And as was mentioned a shop or business normally has to hold the equivalent of a Sherriffs sale (which is a public auction) on abandoned vehicles after the owner as either not chosen to pay any bills and storage fees incurred and returned to claim the vehile in the specified time frame. That would give the buyer at such a sale a replacement title and legal bill of sale if over $500 in value... or just a bill of sale if under $500 in value. Yes I have attended several of these sales and know business owners who have had to use these processes to dispose of what are effectively "Abandoned vehicles".

They can't legally be simply given away without this process. Not in Virginia, MD, PA or DC anyway.

this8384 · Jan 4, 2010, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by 87conquest

I was given a car from a shop with no title , 9 mo later the people who had basically abandoned the car sued the owner and lost as he said he gave the car to me. They have since gotten a judgment for over 3k against me but I was never given proper service as they apparently sent the summons/subpoena to my old address.Now some 2 yrs later I tried to refinance my home and became aware of the matter , but the person who gave me the car has since died from lung cancer so I have no witness to produce as to the time frame in which the said abandoned car was left .

I want this off my financial records and I'm am not willing to pay them a nickel , I live in Virginia, if anyone can help .

You've already been given loads of good advice but I have a few questions anyway.

1) Who signed the title in order for you to be able to transfer the vehicle into your name?
2) How long was the vehicle sitting at the shop prior to you obtaining it?
3) How long did you have the vehicle before the previous owner sued you?

smoothy · Jan 4, 2010, 10:03 AM

Secondary issue I just thought of... Why are they trying to do this in small claims court when what they are claiming amounts to grand theft auto by the shop (or some other lesser charge) and in your case receiving stolen property if there was no proper paperwork in these transactions.

Seems fishy to me... but I stand by my statement of getting a lawyer. Sounds like someone is out to grab money as cheaply and easily as they can. Otherwise police would have been involved. You do want the advice and representation of a lawyer working on your side with knowledge of the local laws to cover yourself. Even if a Lawyer can not represent you in small claims court. They can't in Virginia anyway (only the two involved parties and/or any witnesses), they might be able to get the case tossed out of court or give you invaluable advice for when you ARE in court.

IF the shop did follow the proper legal procedures the vehicles original owner forfeited any authority to claim against a future owner as of the conclusion of that process.

(just a disclaimor : I am NOT a lawyer)

this8384 · Jan 4, 2010, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Secondary issue I just thought of...Why are they trying to do this in small claims court when what they are claiming amounts to grand theft auto by the shop (or some other lesser charge) and in your case receiving stolen property if there was no proper paperwork in these transactions.

Seems fishy to me....but I stand by my statement of getting a lawyer. Sounds like someone is out to grab money as cheaply and easily as they can. Otherwise police would have been involved. You do want the advice and representation of a lawyer working on your side with knowledge of the local laws to cover yourself. Even if a Lawyer can not represent you in small claims court. They can't in Virginia anyway (only the two involved parties and/or any witnesses), they might be able to get the case tossed out of court or give you invaluable advice for when you ARE in court.

IF the shop did follow the proper legal procedures the vehicles original owner forfeited any authority to claim against a future owner as of the conclusion of that process.

(just a disclaimor : I am NOT a lawyer)

Honestly, I don't think it's all that complicated. I think that the original owner never picked up their vehicle, the shop owner filed a lien against it for work performed and got a new title, gave the car to the OP and signed the new title. The original owner got pissed off, sued the OP and won by default.

But, of course, that's all speculation at this point.

smoothy · Jan 4, 2010, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by this8384

Honestly, I don't think it's all that complicated. I think that the original owner never picked up their vehicle, the shop owner filed a lien against it for work performed and got a new title, gave the car to the OP and signed the new title. The original owner got pissed off, sued the OP and won by default.

But, of course, that's all speculation at this point.

True... seems odd they could serve someone (supposedly) and win a default judgement against them without even proving they were served? Old address or not... aren't those supposed to be served in person or at least signed for Via registered mail? Seems might lame someone can be held accountible for a case they never even made a real effort to find him on. Hell, a shady person could just claim the served him or just dropped it at the wrong address and that's it... he gets screwed without even knowing it. What sort of court would even render a default judgement without even seeing if the claims had merit... Sheriffs sales are all a matter of public record. They have to be for this very reason. Assuming there ever was one that is. Even then.. that would trace to the Shop... if that shop is closed and the owner dead... how did they jump over that and go straight to the OP who is sho would have been the first responsible party (although in the case of stolen property doesn't lift responsibility for future recipients)? All seems rather odd to me.

After all how hard is it for the courts to get a current address on someone that ISN'T on the run and is living at a fixed address? The answer is not at all that hard. If you work you pay taxes... if you pay taxes there is a record, not to mention the Department of motor vehicles, utilities, etc... all searchible by computer from someone with acess or am I missing something here?

ScottGem · Jan 4, 2010, 12:08 PM

The OP said; "I was given a car from a shop with no title" So I don't believe the OP was ever given title. I think the shop owner told him to just take it.

But really anything more is speculation until the OP comes back and gives us more info.

In the meantime my initial advice stands.

this8384 · Jan 4, 2010, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

True...seems odd they could serve someone (supposedly) and win a default judgement against them without even proving they were served? Old address or not....aren't those supposed to be served in person or at least signed for Via registered mail? Seems might lame someone can be held accountible for a case they never even made a real effort to find him on. Hell, a shady person could just claim the served him or just dropped it at the wrong address and thats it...he gets screwed without even knowing it. What sort of court would even render a default judgement without even seeing if the claims had merit....Sheriffs sales are all a matter of public record. They have to be for this very reason. Assuming there ever was one that is. Even then..that would trace to the Shop...if that shop is closed and the owner dead...how did they jump over that and go straight to the OP who is sho would have been the first responsible party (although in the case of stolen property doesn't lift responsibility for future recipients)? All seems rather odd to me.

After all how hard is it for the courts to get a current address on someone that ISN'T on the run and is living at a fixed address? The answer is not at all that hard. If you work you pay taxes...if you pay taxes there is a record, not to mention the Department of motor vehicles, utilities, etc...all searchible by computer from someone with acess or am I missing something here?

Originally Posted by ScottGem

The OP said; "I was given a car from a shop with no title" So I don't believe the OP was ever given title. I think the shop owner told him to just take it.

But really anything more is speculation until the OP comes back and gives us more info.

In the meantime my initial advice stands.

The problem is that without more info, we can't give accurate advice. Depending on the OP's state laws, improper service may not be an issue. In my state(Wisconsin), publication in a newspaper counts as proof of service so the OP may not be able to get the judgment reversed on those grounds.

And even if s/he received the vehicle with no title, they would have had to get new license plates for it - that cannot be done without first transferring the vehicle title into their name. The OP stated that 9 months passed between the time they received the vehicle and the original owner sued the shop owner - we can't assume that the OP was driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle for that long without any consequences.

smoothy · Jan 4, 2010, 01:27 PM

Just for information here is the law in VA where the OP says they are from. I have to assume its also where they lived before as well.

Virginia Process Server Laws

Its far too lengthy to post in its entirety and would need a lawyer to explain it to them in laymens terms as it is very dificult to read.

this8384 · Jan 4, 2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Just for information here is the law in VA where the OP says they are from. I have to assume its also where they lived before as well.

Virginia Process Server Laws

Its far too lengthy to post in its entirety and would need a lawyer to explain it to them in laymens terms as it is very dificult to read.

As I read it, statute 8.01-296(2)(b) allows for "nail and mail" in the state of Virginia. Maybe I'm confused though...

Either way, the plaintiff may not have had anything to sue for in the first place.