[tomder55]

India announced that they will not be bound by any deal struck in Copenhagen. But they would be willing to accept financing and technology transfers.
India will not sign binding emission cuts-minister | Reuters

Saudia Arabia is also looking for handouts.

As the world’s leading oil producer, Saudi Arabia has previously fought attempts to agree curbs on emissions, and has also argued that it should receive financial compensation for “lost” revenue, given that constraints on emissions might restrict oil sales.

BBC News - Climate e-mail hack 'will impact on Copenhagen summit'

Indonesia is looking for compensation for NOT cutting down it's forests.
Nature Alert: Riau Seeking Compensation From Advanced Countries

What they all mean of course is they are waiting to see what Santa Obama brings to the table. Connie Hedegaard,Europe's first climate commissioner said :

“What the world is waiting for now is exactly what will be the American commitments to reduce their emissions,” Hedegaard said and added the world also wanted to know “what kind of financial contributions would come from the American side.”

“There, President Obama could be very helpful if he has something in his pocket … when he comes to Copenhagen. I think it would be very useful.”

Reuters AlertNet - INTERVIEW-Denmark: Obama finance bid would help climate deal

But not to worry . Sen.Jean F.Kerry plans to send the President with pockets loaded with promisory loot.

US Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry presented a bill which provides international aid for forest preservation and creates a new programme to help deploy low-emission energy technologies in developing nations. It also authorises new adaptation aid

EurActiv.com - US mulls climate finance bill ahead of Copenhagen | EU - European Information on Climate Change

I have to say kudos to the Aussies who realized in the knick of time that they were about to get fleeced ...and they did something about it. What Copenhagen exposes is the true desire of the greens .It is less about saving the planet and more about creative ways to transfer the wealth of nations. It's all about the money.

[paraclete]

A lot of opportunists out there, Tom, but why should we finance them when we have difficulty financing our own efforts? Yes , some of us are awake, unfortunately the Socialists, the Greens and for Americans the Liberals, don't listen to reason, Hey I learned today that the biggest single contributor to carbon pollution is refrigeration, we will spend all our efforts getting CO2 down while HCF's in refrigeration are 1400 times the problem CO2 is. Millions of tons escape every year, they will even convert HCF to CO2 because it becomes the next big problem once the power industry has been dealt with. Will this insanity never end? The whole problem could be solved by dealing with fugative emissions from refrigeration. The mind boggles, are the statistics wrong? Or are we just idiots?

[tomder55]

This Climategate stuff is beginning to resemble the Piltdown man.

[speechlesstx]

This Climategate stuff is beginning to resemble the Piltdown man.

Exactly.

Of course it's about the money - and the power grab. I heard someone this morning, I think it was Joe Sestak, making the claim that we need to put out $100 billion to developing nations to help them ease off their usage of fossil fuels.

Naturally I heard that right after I saw an article in my paper they headlined "Adapt or die," while having yet to mention climategate.

[paraclete]

This Climategate stuff is beginning to resemble the Piltdown man.

Yes this climate change debate is perhaps the greatest load of crap ever foisted on a guillable public, the snake oil salesmen found a good product when they discovered climate change, there is so much misinformation and bad data, I cannot see why respectable scientists are associated with it. It ranks with Von Daniken as a hoax

What do we know?

Temperature records are being set
Average Temperature over the past ten years has fallen
Average Temperature over the previous ten years rose
An ice age is predicted
There is a climate cycle linked to the Earth's orbit
On a cosmic scale there are brief periods of higher temperature and long periods of ice age conditions
The Earth's average temperature has been higher
Concentrations of CO2 have been higher
Temperature changes do not correlate with CO2 concentrations in recent years
Conditions at the poles are causing the ice cap to withdraw
Unless we stop emitting CO2 immediately we cannot affect or even reverse the trend

What does this tell me

The changes we observe are outside our control

[speechlesstx]

Surely you've seen the list of things caused by global warming? I'm particularly concerned about the looming shortage of haggis.

[tomder55]

Yeah there's that... but what really keeps me up at night is the imminent threat of melting mammoth dung.

And if I lived in Wisconsin losing that December and January edge the Green Bay Packers have would be enough for me to put corkscrew looking bulbs in my lamps .

[tomder55]

The Goracle says that the fleecing being proposed at Copenhagen doesn't go far enough .
VIDEO:Gordon Brown answers young people's questions

[speechlesstx]

Oh my, melting mammoth dung, that is frightening!

Politico had a chat with The Goracle and didn't bother to mention Climategate. I guess these people think if they ignore it we'll go away.

By the way, Houston had the earliest snowfall in recorded history yesterday. I'm just saying...

[paraclete]

Surely you've seen the list of things caused by global warming? I'm particularly concerned about the looming shortage of haggis.

That's an interesting list. Here's one example we all we all thought to ponder long before global warming became popular. In Australia in the 1950's a giant hydro electric scheme predicated on snow melt was constructed. Since that time oddly enough there has been insufficient snow fall to allow the scheme to operate to specification and environmental flows have had to be returned to the Snowy River. The Murray River system who's flows this scheme was to augment is now in severe decline. Consider that the Australian Alps in which this scheme was constructed are larger than the Swiss Alps which supports huge hydro electric schemes

[tomder55]

One of the big problems facing negotiators at Copenhagen is how to handle to Ruskies and their accumulation of carbon credits. They have been the country that best achieved Kyoto goals of carbon reduction.

But the reason that happened is that their economy collapsed in the 1990s.It had nothing to do with any measores they took to reduce carbon emissions.
Still the number don't lie;and in the process they have accumulated tradable carbon credits .

According to the Washington Compost.

The Kremlin has insisted that the credits be carried over into a new agreement, but environmentalists say that would cripple any treaty by making it much cheaper for countries to buy credits than cut emissions.

washingtonpost.com
(The credits expire in 2012 with the Kyoto treaty. )

"They would have a very substantial influence on the carbon market," said Pat Michaels, senior fellow at the free market Cato Institute. "They would be the Saudi Arabia of carbon credits."

Investors.com - Russian Claim To Carbon Credits May Bedevil Copenhagen Talks

In other words they intend to make the West pay retroactively for the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[tomder55]

I am revisiting an oldie

What Vivek called a Climate hoax is not about whether the climate is changing or not. It is about how the elites are profiting from fiancial schemes that almost assuredly will not do anything to remedy (if it is even desirable) the fact that the climate is changing .

Let's start with Kyoto and the Goracle (Al Gore) . 1998 he led the US effort to establish the Kyoto Protocol. Basically it was a 'cap and trade scam' . Participating nations who were more developed and thus more ready to reduce carbon emissions could sell "carbon credits "to less developed nations that needed higher carbon emissions to develop their industries. They turned carbon emissions into a comodity to trade.
Goracle and Goldman Sachs saw the profit potential and established their firm in London in 2004, a year before the Kyoto Protocol became effective. Other financial heavyweights like BlackRock soon followed suit with a "renewables-only" equity fund. The market for trading carbon was $10 billion in 2004.It grew to $800 billion by 2018, and $1 trillion by the end of 2021. It is still increasing at a 18.6 percent increase and is estimated to be $2.68 trillion by 2028 .
The goal was to reduce carbon emissions to 95% of the signatory's 1990 emissions . Instead it grew by 32% in the decade after the treaty was signed.

Countries started to withdraw from the treaty rather than pay a 30% penalty. Canada left after their fine was to be $14 billion .

BlackRock's declared that companies in their portfolio must take the necessary steps to decarbonize .Of course they will assist in the effort . BlackRock will sell those companies carbon credits to get to net zero. They don't emit less carbon; they emit less profit. But their shareholders can feel better as they get poorer .

With the carbon credit market established the next phase was to create a renewable market where none existed and no one wanted .

[jlisenbe]

The problem with carbon fuels is that there are presently no real alternatives other than nuclear which makes people nervous. Wind and solar are largely inefficient and can do little more than be an adjunct to carbon fuels. Geothermal is nothing more than a small scale contributor. So the question is where to go from here. Even if CC is as bad as is suggested, and that is a big if, there seems to be no other place to go. EVs do no more than kick the can down the road.

[tomder55]

The Goracle left office with less than $2 million . He created the carbon trade scam and now has a fortune in excess of $300 million .
His climate scam company Generation Investment Management pays him $2million a month . Recently Generation Investment launched 'Just Climate ' . It raised $1.5 billion in it's initial launch .

Just Climate 'Doing well by doing good.'</sarc> (Ben Franklin)

[jlisenbe]

Needed. Pols, scientists, and business leaders who feel obliged to tell the American people the truth.