[sabrewolfe]

Aside from immaturity and insecurity, I think for some women, they might be confused as to what they want, and changes their mind constantly.

True, but it's just strange that at 37 years old, two children to two different fathers (me being one), she doesn't know what she wants yet? I guess it takes an eternity for some.

[Justwantfair]

Im not trying to generalize, please don't take it that way and I know many guys do the same things to women also. I also understand I should not put up with it and don't plan to.
Im just trying to figure out what the benefit of those things are for them. Insecurity, immaturity, and things like that are definitely good reasons but Im just trying to understand the underlying benefits of that behaviour, because it sure does not benefit the relationship so therefore there must be some type of something the person gets from it.

The benefit is the same as that of a child acting out... sometimes negative attention is still attention.

[Justwantfair]

sabrewolfe agrees: Ok, so she feels the lack of attention. Good possibility. Thank you. Makes sense.

Do not misunderstand that to mean that you are not offering her enough attention. It's bad behavior, no matter how you look at it. She is getting a response from you and that is what she is looking for.

This isn't healthy for either of you.

[sabrewolfe]

sabrewolfe agrees: Ok, so she feels the lack of attention. Good possibility. Thank you. Makes sense.

Do not misunderstand that to mean that you are not offering her enough attention. It's bad behavior, no matter how you look at it. She is getting a response from you and that is what she is looking for.

This isn't healthy for either of you.

Your right, sorry to question you more about it though, but shouldn't she be looking to get positive attention which is mutually beneficial? I just don't understand how the arguing and breaking up is beneficial to her at all. We are not children, Im 38, she is 37. We both have children and a lot of responsibility.

[Justwantfair]

Some adults learn these behaviors as children. When they feel that they only get attention for having choas and hostility around them, they continue poor behaviors.

I have completely read your other threads, but I know you mentioned numerous negative characteristics in her personality... has she seen a doctor or therapist?

[sabrewolfe]

Some adults learn these behaviors as children. When they feel that they only get attention for having choas and hostility around them, they continue poor behaviors.

I have completely read your other threads, but I know you mentioned numerous negative characteristics in her personality... has she seen a doctor or therapist?

No, she mentioned it once before, but never followed up. She doesn't really think she has a problem. She has also said that counselors are a waste of time. She's just too set in her ways.

[Justwantfair]

You need to let go, for your own benefit and that of the children.

Dysfunction can't be changed. Two people have to be working on a relationship.

[Mary99]

Maybe your just meeting the wrong kind of women.

[sabrewolfe]

maybe your just meeting the wrong kind of women.

No kidding.
Sometimes it's hard to tell or takes a while till you find out who they really are, and harder to rid yourself from when you have a kid with them.

[Mary99]

No kidding.
Sometimes it's hard to tell or takes a while till you find out who they really are, and harder to rid yourself from when you have a kid with them.

Well at least you have been blessed with a beautiful child out of it. :)

[talaniman]

well at least you have been blessed with a beautiful child out of it. :)

Sometimes we have to walk away from the dumb stuff (her) and deal with the good stuff that matters (your child).

[makapuu]

Sorry to say, but you might be in this game for life. She will either be your girlfriend, or your ex-girlfriend.

To answer your question, in general I think people play games to pass the time and have fun. Someone wins, someone loses. If there is love in a relationship, there would be no games because no one really loses.

[chuff]

All I would like to know is why do women (and men), but in this case women, play games with their men. What I mean by that is consistantly accusing him of cheating when there is no reason to, blaming everything on him, and always expecting for you to ask them for forgiveness for things that are usually easily talked out but they refuse to. Breaking up, blaming it all on him, then when you give up, they say you were the one who ended it and they still love you, and doing this over and over. And yes, I understand that the insane part is the guy who keeps going through that over and over.
Why? What gain do women get from playing these games?
Has anyone here honestly done this to their guy?

Is there some possible psychological reason or benefit?

There is. I actually studied some psychology a couple years ago to answer similar questions. I'm sure you've seen shows or read books where they explain mating ritiuals for different animals, but nobody ever looks at humans as an animal. If you step back and sort of just watch humans as animals you start to notice patterns of behavior that cut across race, religion, history, or country of origin. At the end of the day, humans are no different then other animals in that we are "programmed" to mate to provide offspring for another generation.

Women are emotional creatures, by that men usually assume that means they want us to say "I love you" 50 times a day, cry with them, and be sensitive to try and relate to them, etc. In reality what that means is women were given the responsibility (in nature before civilization and the human invention of marriage) of raising their children while men went out and hunted for food or to protect the cave or villiage. A woman could not physically do that as she was not as physically strong as a man, and she had to take care of the children. So a way for her to weed out all the potential males for fathers was to use a women's best weapon, her own emotions and understanding of them to find the best mate and strongest male in the group (back when humans were in small villiages and not big cities) by constantly using games to test his strength. If he was constantly worried about her, he wasn't focused on getting food for the young or defending the home against outsiders, which meant he would not live long and not be a good mate. If a male was weak, and did not defend himself for the woman, he would be weak when it came to hunting or defending the villiage and would not live long enough to assist in the raising of the young. On the flip side, if he was weak, back when resources were scarce the woman would use his weakness to her advantage and get the male to provide her with what resources he could before he would be killed. It was a defense strategy for a female.

Fast forward 50,000 years, and societies have changed but the traits humans use for mating are actually very similar. One reason women constantly play games with your head is they are hard wired to do it. They are constantly testing you to see if you are strong enough for them. Today, we don't fight to save the villiage, but women may want to pick a fight to see how strong you are and if you'll defend herself.

We've all seen examples of a-holes who get women way out of their league and just go, "she could do so much better." But the problem is not that he's the jerk, it's that every other guy before him was so nice (weak) that she ate them and threw them out, when she found someone who stood up for himself, she believed that to be strong, because he'll last the longest to provide for her and the young. Just like her ancestors did in the caveman days. Society has changed, but human behavior remains the same.

[sabrewolfe]

Thanks Chuff, now Im starting to understand. I knew that there had to be some sort of benefit somewhere in her logic to why she behaves so destructive, but turns out there is some reason for it. So the mistake we make is taking it at face value, re-assuring them and telling them how much we love them and kissy-kissy, etc. which is what we think they want, but their underlying motives are to size us up? Hope I got that right. In that case, how do we handle these ordeals properly? Should we give no attention to it? I've tried that, but then it becomes an argument of me not paying attention to her or caring how she feels.

[chuff]

So the mistake we make is taking it at face value, re-assuring them and telling them how much we love them and kissy-kissy, etc. which is what we think they want, but their underlying motives are to size us up? Hope I got that right. In that case, how do we handle these ordeals properly? Should we give no attention to it? I've tried that, but then it becomes an arguement of me not paying attention to her or caring how she feels.

Indeed. For example, when something is wrong on the mistakes most men make is asking 53 times, "what's wrong" or "what you mad about." If there upsest about something so bad, they will let you know. So if they don't and they are acting in a bad mood all you can do is assume this her way seeing how you cope with her emotional state of being upset. Personally, I ignore it or laugh at it. Her problems are hers. I don't inherit them because I'm going out with her and she chooses to be upset. Some how we are taught that we have to solve there problems for them. They can solve there own problems, especiallly when they create them.

A relationship is based on two individuals meeting in the middle. Many men make the mistake of going over the line into her life to solve all her supposed issues because they think logically and it makes sense that if you solve her issues logically, she'll be happier emotionally. But she does not think that way, she thinks it's weak minded that a male spends so much time worrying about her and not about himself or his responsibilities.

Sometimes women will keep bringing up the same problem and we sit there and think "I already told you what to do, why don't you just do it and move on, this is so simple and could have been over with." The problem isn't whatever she's talking about, it's her female brain testing what you do about it. My rule of thumb is I'll give a woman advice, if she doesn't take it, the next time it comes up I tell her, "I already told you what the solution was, there's nothing else to talk about." I'm doing two things by that. The first is I remind her that I offered my help, and the second is I demonstrate to her in a calm, rational manner that I don't put up with the emotional games she plays, which triggers to her that I have some strength.

I suggest you do something similar. You're a happy person right? You've got one life to lead, and you want it to be for the most part happy. If she starts arguing with you, laugh at her and tell her she's being ridicules. She'll get more upset trying to get you to go along. Just keep smiling no matter what she says. You determine how you feel. Not her, and her attitude problem is not something you assume because your dating. That's her problem and hers to keep. If she starts yelling at you ignore it. When she asks, "what do you have to say to that?" flat out tell her, you're a grown man and if she wants an answer to her question she can talk to you like one in a calm rational manner. If not, this conversation is done. You will demonstrate that you care to listen to her concerns, but you will not be disrespected in the process. If she does, she doesn't get the benefit of your time. She will pout but just play it through and stay consistent, and she will actually start to respect you more and the arguments will be less and less because she understands in her own mind she's dealing with someone who can keep her in line.

[Gemini54]

Interesting questions that you pose Sabrewolf (as I've followed some of your previous posts).

What gain do women get from playing these games?
Is there some possible psychological reason or benefit?

I'm a woman, and I don't play mind games, but I do like being in control of myself and my life. I'm independent, intellectual and analytical and love being in a relationship with my husband. In reading Chuff's post I can understand what he's trying to say, but I don't see myself in it. I've never expected a man to solve my problems for me, nor would I belittle him if he was unable to. My husband and I have a loving, equal and open relationship and we bloody work hard to maintain it.

I actually think that it's hard to generalize about the reasons WOMEN play games, as I believe that both genders play games in relationships.

Having said that, I believe that when either gender plays mind games it's about CONTROL. The sort of mind games you describe confuse, destabilize, demean and manipulate the other person. The gain from this type of behaviour is that the perpetrator keeps their partner on tenterhooks, constantly wondering what they are doing wrong (or what they can do to right things) and the focus and power in the relationship is with the 'controller'. The other person's discomfort is, in itself, a gain for the perpetrator.

Now I'll make a generalization myself and say that more often women are good at forms of control that involve emotional manipulation. This is where they excel and this contrasts with the male's propensity for solutions based thinking. So the male thinks - 'what can I do to make this better', and the woman thinks, 'what can I do to keep him insecure and make sure his attention is on me'. She wins. The cycle continues.

Solutions are really hard in these circumstances, but as I mentioned in a previous post, and as Chuff so rightly suggests, it's about creating strong boundaries. You have to decide what you're prepared to put up with, and stick to it. This of course may not be sustainable in the longer term and may mean leaving the dysfunctional relationship and seeking a healthy one.

[finally2009]

I can not believe the nasty advice you have been given. I am in the process of trying to get over a 2 yr relationship with a Hisotonic, Toxic Narcissist! One thing that is saving me is that I finally found out what and why I have been in this mental tourment for so long. He was like Jeckel and Hyde! I even told him that. I was ALWAYS wrong and he was always right about everything and anything that mostly was so insignificant to life I couldn't understand why I was always being lectured instead of just living. Then he would tell me he just wanted to live. I always knew what he was saying to me was definitely about him but have never dealth this such a wacked personality and when he was good he was the best and the man of my dreams. When he was bad he was my worse crulest nightmare.

I know know that finding out that every trait I read about is like reading a Bio on him that he would never really love me and that all that I did was never going to get me anywhere.

I am having a hard time not thinking about him or what he is doing and I understand that I need to work on that. I also found out that the reason I didn't run the first time he flipped and accused me of such BS stuff is because I had become a codependant from my 26 yr relationship with my ex-husband who was an alcoholic. So I am now trying to fix myself so I can live!

;)

[sabrewolfe]

Threads merged.


My ex girlfreind and I have been through a lot, we have been off and on for a long time now. We recently had a pretty calm conversation about things and about taking time to see if we could find our way back to each other in a sense. She has trust issues with me as far as female friends I used to have, and the fact that when she broke things off with me this past summer, I dated someone else for a while. We got back together, but it didn't go so well, she always seemed to want to argue about the past too much till I told her I was done. I understand we have a lot of unresolved issues, but my logic to that is we will never be able to agree to the problems of the past, so why even argue about it, I think the past is better left alone. Anyway, it seems neither one of us can completely let go of each other even now.
So now that we are taking this time, we agreed that we will not see other people. I would like to see if we can get along a lot better than before, and if it's worth pursuing further or just ending it for good. I decided to give this one more try, but Im not exactly sure how to go about it. We will be taking things extremely slow, and will talk and see each other occasionally. I would like to see things work out for us, I honestly do not want to be with anyone else, and I don't think she does either. Has anyone else gone through this process successfully? Is there any advice that might make things easier or more productive to working things out. I would like to have a woman's perspective on this also. I hope that I've given enough information on my situation. If not, I would appreciate any questions that would help bring things clearer. Thank you all.

[itried]

It's unreasonable for her to have trust issues because you were with another woman, since she was the one to break it off with you. What were you supposed to do? Sit on your hands and wait for her to be finished with the men that she was probably messing around with? The funny thing is, after writing that last sentence I realized that that more than likely is what she was doing.

That being said, she's being unreasonable and definitely had her cake, didn't tell you how much and is now shaming you for indulging yourself. It's a trick so she can get all the control and power back in the relationship. Single women are mostly miserable and NEED to be with men to alleviate their boredom. This includes her as she was definitely getting with someone while you were apart, but she probably has a selective memory when it comes to her "transgressions". She was doing exactly what you were doing while apart and don't you forget it. Remember this and don't let her browbeat you into feeling remorseful for being dumped by her.

Leave your past in the past. If she can't get over it then she's obviously not worth it. I remember having a conversation on here with you before and if it's the same woman that I remember you definitely need to proceed with caution. You're a man. Remember to act like one.

All that being said. Give it a shot if you want. But don't give up any ground to her. Set boundaries and limits without saying them and carry yourself with confidence during this newest version of your relationship.

Good luck.

[Gemini54]

Sabrewolf, is this the same woman that you talked about in these threads?

All his threads were merged for the full story.

If it is, I don't know that there can be a way back. The trust issues will keep coming up again and again, and they will become the excuse for everything that goes wrong in your relationship.

Things will be OK while you're still uncertain and she doesn't have your commitment, but once you start to believe that you want to be with her again, you'll start to relive your previous problems.

Tread carefully. If you both GENUINELY want to resolve your issues, then counseling is the only way to gain a fresh perspective.