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this8384 · Nov 30, 2009, 09:05 AM

Maybe this is a waste of time, and I'm sorry in advance if it is.

Right now, my two stepchildren are primarily residing with my husband and myself. Their mother has visitation 3 weekends a month. She works 3rd shift and was leaving the kids alone in the middle of the night to go to work, and her fiancé also has a problem with alcohol; both of these factored greatly into the physical custody change.

My question is: is there anything we can do to ensure the kids would stay with me if, God forbid, something happened to my husband? His exwife would never sign away her rights and allow me to adopt the kids, but is there a way we could assign guardianship or something similar that would allow me to still be a part of their lives?

I'm worried not just for myself, but also for my 2 1/2 year old. It would hurt her terribly to suddenly have her brother and sister taken away from her and knowing his exwife, she wouldn't let me see them if she wasn't receiving child support.

stinawords · Nov 30, 2009, 09:12 AM

Not that I know of. Because you already know she is next in line should something happen and you aren't even a blood relative. The only thing that I can see is IF something happened to him and they went back (which I pray dosen't happen) you can try to keep contact and if the children express that they are in the same situation then call CPS again. If she won't be willing to let you adopt then you still have no legal standing. He should ask his lawyer though if there is anything in your area that would at least require an evaluation or something before the children were returned to her but I don't know of any.

this8384 · Nov 30, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by stinawords

Not that I know of. Because you already know she is next in line should something happen and you aren't even a blood relative. The only thing that I can see is IF something happened to him and they went back (which I pray dosen't happen) you can try to keep contact and if the children express that they are in the same situation then call CPS again. If she won't be willing to let you adopt then you still have no legal standing. He should ask his lawyer though if there is anything in your area that would at least require an evaluation or something before the children were returned to her but I don't know of any.

Unfortunately, that's what I thought :(

I don't want to think morbidly but the truth is, bad things happen unexpectedly. The last thing I'd want is for the kids to go back to her; she's done enough damage as it is already and she continues, even with them living here instead.

What really concerns me is that we called CPS last year; they told us they couldn't do anything because we didn't have any proof of anything. Then this year, CPS got involved because she called the police and told them that my husband was withholding the children from her. The CPS worker was terrible at her job, didn't interview the kids properly and concluded that the allegations of neglect against his exwife were "unsubstantiated."

cdad · Nov 30, 2009, 03:42 PM

The problem is that you're a third party in all this and because of that your outside of the circle. Even should your husband go to court and modify a custody agreement to say your keep the kids when he passes the agreement would end. It has to be more solid.. sorry.

this8384 · Nov 30, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by califdadof3

The problem is that your a third party in all this and because of that your outside of the circle. Even should your husband go to court and modify a custody agreement to say your keep the kids when he passes the agreement would end. It has to be more solid .. sorry.

What I put into bold is, I guess, what I'm looking for. If she agreed to it in court, would that be enough? Not that I think she would agree to it, but stranger things have happened. At the very least that I could still see them and be a part of their lives. Like I said, I'm worried that if it were to happen, my daughter would grow up not knowing her brother and sister - that really hurts to even imagine.

cdad · Nov 30, 2009, 03:58 PM

Ok Im going to repeat myself because maybe I didn't explain it well. The agreement would be between him and her. The agreement IS NOT between you and her. So as far as being legally binding it ends at the time of HIS death. Your only out to this would be adoption because that IS permanent placement. Im sorry but that's how it works. Your only other saving grace may be if there were a surviving grandparent and your state offers grandparent rights. So long as your in good favor with said grandparent and they were to gain custody of somekind that would be your only legal way out at this time. Laws change and maybe there will be room for changes to help you at a later date but for now your stuck.

this8384 · Nov 30, 2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by califdadof3

Ok Im going to repeat myself because maybe I didnt explain it well. The agreement would be between him and her. The agreement IS NOT between you and her. So as far as being legally binding it ends at the time of HIS death. Your only out to this would be adoption because that IS permanent placement. Im sorry but thats how it works. Your only other saving grace may be if there were a surviving grandparent and your state offers grandparent rights. So long as your in good favor with said grandparent and they were to gain custody of somekind that would be your only legal way out at this time. Laws change and maybe there will be room for changes to help you at a later date but for now your stuck.

No, you explained it but I guess I just read it the wrong way. I thought maybe if there was an agreement between the two of them that somehow brought me into it, that would make it legal... guess not.

The only grandparents on my husband's side all live out of state, so I don't think that would even be feasible.

This is really frustrating and sad. I know plenty of stepparents who are better to the children than the biological parents are. Maybe it's time to lobby some senators...

cdad · Nov 30, 2009, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by this8384

No, you explained it but I guess I just read it the wrong way. I thought maybe if there was an agreement between the two of them that somehow brought me into it, that would make it legal...guess not.

The only grandparents on my husband's side all live out of state, so I don't think that would even be feasible.

This is really frustrating and sad. I know plenty of stepparents who are better to the children than the biological parents are. Maybe it's time to lobby some senators...

All things have to start somewhere. Maybe there is room to create a PAC and head to your state senate and to the capitol. You could call it the extended family act. That way step parents of all kinds could join. There are many mothers and fathers in your shoes and they aren't looking at just end of life issues but divorce too. Imagine raising a child from early on to early teens only to have them ripped away because the " official parent " decides they want to go elsewhere. Its truly heartwrenching.

this8384 · Dec 1, 2009, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by califdadof3

All things have to start somewhere. Maybe there is room to create a PAC and head to your state senate and to the capitol. You could call it the extended family act. That way step parents of all kinds could join. There are many mothers and fathers in your shoes and they arent looking at just end of life issues but divorce too. Imagine raising a child from early on to early teens only to have them ripped away because the " official parent " decides they want to go elsewhere. Its truely heartwrenching.

My thoughts exactly! Just because someone isn't biologically related doesn't make separation sting any less; it would crush me to not see these kids ever again. They're a piece of my heart just as my own daughter is.

In my eyes, a stepparent is no different than an adoptive parent. We certainly don't see adopted children being kept from their parents because of divorce and/or death; why should a stepparent be any different? They invest the same time and emotions raising a child as any other parent does and they should be granted the same rights, if they choose to exercise them.

this8384 · Dec 15, 2009, 01:19 PM

I just e-mailed a state representative who I've met a few times; I'll let you guys know if I hear anything back. This is something very important not just to me, but to stepparents across the country.

As I said before, we don't consider adoptive parents to not be "real" parents just because they're not related to their children by blood - why should stepparents be treated any differently? I think it's something that every stepparent should make a choice whether they want to be involved in; not everyone has a great relationship with their stepkids, but those of us who do should be given the courtesy of at least having a voice when these kids are a part of our hearts, as well.

Synnen · Dec 15, 2009, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by this8384

I just e-mailed a state representative who I've met a few times; I'll let you guys know if I hear anything back. This is something very important not just to me, but to stepparents across the country.

As I said before, we don't consider adoptive parents to not be "real" parents just because they're not related to their children by blood - why should stepparents be treated any differently? I think it's something that every stepparent should make a choice whether or not they want to be involved in; not everyone has a great relationship with their stepkids, but those of us who do should be given the courtesy of at least having a voice when these kids are a part of our hearts, as well.

The reason they ARE treated differently--adoptive parents vs stepparents--is that adoptive parents are LEGAL parents. If you're going to open this up for stepparent rights, you're also opening it up for BIRTHPARENTS to come back into their children's lives after a divorce or death, even though they have NO legal standing with the child. There's a very strong case for LEGAL parents to be the ones making decisions for the child.

Visitation rights after a death or divorce make sense to fight for, to me--but the right to take the child/custody from a legal parent needs to be fought in court on an individual basis, in my opinion.

this8384 · Dec 15, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Synnen

The reason they ARE treated differently--adoptive parents vs stepparents--is that adoptive parents are LEGAL parents. If you're going to open this up for stepparent rights, you're also opening it up for BIRTHPARENTS to come back into their children's lives after a divorce or death, even though they have NO legal standing with the child. There's a very strong case for LEGAL parents to be the ones making decisions for the child.

Visitation rights after a death or divorce make sense to fight for, to me--but the right to take the child/custody from a legal parent needs to be fought in court on an individual basis, in my opinion.

I did it again - should have explained myself better :)

I think it should all be handled on an individual basis - I don't think there should be one set rule that says a stepparent automatically gets whatever their spouse was awarded. If the stepparent wants right, then I think they should be able to petition the court. Right now, that doesn't exist.

Adoptive parents have a different situation. The birth parents willingly signed away their rights and gave their child up for adoption. If my husband were to pass away, I didn't choose that and I certainly wouldn't choose for my relationship with the children to be severed.

Synnen · Dec 15, 2009, 02:04 PM

The other kind of adoptive parents, though, are those that adopt children out of the foster care system--children whose parents did NOT choose adoption, whose rights were severed by the courts.

I think it's a GREAT idea if it's on an individual basis, honestly. If it's a child of your heart, you should still be able to show that a solid relationship exists and be allowed visitation. Honestly, though, I think this should apply to ANY person who is a strong and loving influence in a child's life.

I think the best sort of situation to go for, though, is that guardianship through a parent's will or other legal document should be honored by the courts. What I mean by this is this: if a parent were to die, they should be able to appoint a LEGAL guardian for their child, that would receive the same rights as a non-custodial parent in a general sense--unless the court decided that it was in the child's/children's best interest to reside with that person. For example, if in his will your husband were to appoint you guardianship of his children, that should be honored with, at the least, visitation with the children, and at the most full custody.

Of course, it goes without saying that if you are taking on the legal role of a parent for the child, you must take the obligations along with the rights.

Again, this is something that would only be valid if the legal parent were deceased, and to be decided on an individual basis in the courts, with the child/children's best interests in mind.

I'm not knocking your idea--I think it's a GREAT idea! I'm just trying to help you define the limitations and goals so that you can give a VERY clear idea of what you're looking for to a lawyer to fight for it.

Hell, I'd help you fight for it, and I'm not a step-parent. It's a very good idea! Let me know what I can do, besides play devil's advocate.

this8384 · Dec 15, 2009, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Synnen

The other kind of adoptive parents, though, are those that adopt children out of the foster care system--children whose parents did NOT choose adoption, whose rights were severed by the courts.

I think it's a GREAT idea if it's on an individual basis, honestly. If it's a child of your heart, you should still be able to show that a solid relationship exists and be allowed visitation. Honestly, though, I think this should apply to ANY person who is a strong and loving influence in a child's life.

I think the best sort of situation to go for, though, is that guardianship through a parent's will or other legal document should be honored by the courts. What I mean by this is this: if a parent were to die, they should be able to appoint a LEGAL guardian for their child, that would receive the same rights as a non-custodial parent in a general sense--unless the court decided that it was in the child's/children's best interest to reside with that person. For example, if in his will your husband were to appoint you guardianship of his children, that should be honored with, at the least, visitation with the children, and at the most full custody.

Of course, it goes without saying that if you are taking on the legal role of a parent for the child, you must take the obligations along with the rights.

Again, this is something that would only be valid if the legal parent were deceased, and to be decided on an individual basis in the courts, with the child/children's best interests in mind.

I'm not knocking your idea--I think it's a GREAT idea! I'm just trying to help you define the limitations and goals so that you can give a VERY clear idea of what you're looking for to a lawyer to fight for it.

Hell, I'd help you fight for it, and I'm not a step-parent. It's a very good idea! Let me know what I can do, besides play devil's advocate.

Your third paragraph is EXACTLY what I had in mind. You can't tell me that these kids would be better off living with their mom working a 3rd shift job, leaving them alone in the middle of the night, than with me working a 1st shift job and taking them to school 2 blocks down the street... just because she's their biological parent.

I'm starting to get excited for this. I think it would change a lot of people's lives in a very positive way :)