[tomder55]

If it were a truly fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal/libertarian group I would be all for it!

Well , narrow the parameters enough and you can have a movement of one.

Truth be told ,it was those rabid rightwingers;and "super conservatives " in the Republican Congressional caucus who did oppose the TARP and bailouts from the beginning.

[speechlesstx]

Speaking of it being "all how you look at it," Pelosi sees Obamacare as an 'entrepreneurial' opportunity to quit your job and let some other entrepreneurial individuals pay for your health care while you pursue your passion.

“We see it as an entrepreneurial bill,” Pelosi said, “a bill that says to someone, if you want to be creative and be a musician or whatever, you can leave your work, focus on your talent, your skill, your passion, your aspirations because you will have health care.”

In other words, the Democrats really do aspire to be just like Greece.

[adthern]

Strangely enough, I wouldn't. First, this was a policy that started under bush and was continued under obama.

While I am all for putitng really smart people in their fields into key positions to advise, I am not going to just blindly follow their advise. There were plenty of people who were outraged at the idea of handing over money to the banks.

And even if I did, I would certainly have put some strings on the money, I mean for gods sake they put strings on everything.

[adthern]

Well , narrow the parameters enough and you can have a movement of one.

Truth be told ,it was those rabid rightwingers;and "super conservatives " in the Republican Congressional caucus who did oppose the TARP and bailouts from the beginning.

I don't think I am narrowing the parameters to a party of one, I think the vast majority of people who fall in the middle would absolutely support someone who was very much tight fisted with taxpayer money, yet believed in keeping the gov's hands off our personal lives.

Tom, you can't seriously say that you think the Feds should make the decisions on who sleeps with who, who works where, and who lives where do you? When it comes to morality, that's between a person and his god/s.

[tomder55]

No I don't think the majority of the people have the libertarian inclinations you think they do . If they did the Libertarian efforts would draw more than single digits in elections.

You simplify the conservative position into strawmen [you can't seriously say that you think the Feds should make the decisions on who sleeps with who, who works where, and who lives where do you? ]. (local zoning laws answers 2 of these 3 points right off the bat )
There wasn't a founder who thought our system would work in a society without morals.
I think the people of the country have a moral standard based in tradition that they would like their government to recognize and support in law .

[adthern]

No I don't think the majority of the people have the libertarian inclinations you think they do . If they did the Libertarian efforts would draw more than single digits in elections.

Well, the libertarian candidates and the lib party tend to be extremely conservative and include a lot of religious/moral elements and are not the socially libertarian ideals I mentioned.

You simplify the conservative position into strawmen [you can't seriously say that you think the Feds should make the decisions on who sleeps with who, who works where, and who lives where do you? ]. (local zoning laws answers 2 of these 3 points right off the bat )

I am not sure what you mean by the "local zoning laws..." comment, but I will make clear I was talking about the federal gov not state and local govs.

There wasn't a founder who thought our system would work in a society without morals.

I think Ben Franklin and T Jefferson might disagree.

I think the people of the country have a moral standard based in tradition that they would like their government to recognize and support in law .

You may feel that way, however I don't believe that most voters do, additionally the whole point of the "free exercise" and "Establishment" clauses was to keep religion out of Gov and Gov out of Religion.

Though, I don't particularly care about phrases that were characteristic of the time "under God"; " so help you god" etc... I am more concerned with religious morals being adopted by the federal Gov.

Morals in the sense of thou shalt not kill=criminal murder; of course no one has an issue with things like that, but when you are taking parts of the bible and trying to adopt them into the US code thats another issue.

[tomder55]

Resonse to Obamacare debate that drifted over to the border op:

No you can't keep your own plan ;and the President knew this would happen
Scott Gottlieb: No, You Can't Keep Your Health Plan - WSJ.com

The goal always was to move the country towards a universal single payer system ;and like good Fabians, the Obots decided to mask language of comprehensive reform into what was in fact an incremental steps towards that goal . Obamacare will be revised and revised again ;and each time it will be on the pretext of fixing flaws in the last law while they move the goal post 3 yards and a cloud of dust at a time.

[excon]

The goal always was to move the country towards a universal single payer system ;and like good Fabians, the Obots decided to mask language of comprehensive reform into what was in fact an incremental steps towards that goal . Obamacare will be revised and revised again ;and each time it will be on the pretext of fixing flaws in the last law while they move the goal post 3 yards and a cloud of dust at a time.

Hello again, tom:

Each incremental step along the way has to happen in congress, where you have representatives who vote the way you want them to. Sometimes, when you lose an election, you don't have enough votes to do much, so all that's left is complaining.

When these changes come up, if you have the votes, defeat them. Otherwise, that's the American lawmaking process at work.

excon

[tomder55]

Yeah yeah but how many lawmakers would vote for the pig in a poke?
The problem is when the government starts voting entitlements with someone else's money it becomes very difficult to roll back . As an example ;we already know
Social security is a ponzi scheme. But try to reform it and everyone talks about "the third rail " of American politics as if it is sancrosanct. Why ? Because people were sold a bill of goods and were suckered into believing that an additional tax on their income was an insurance policy.

[excon]

yeah yeah but how many lawmakers would vote for the pig in a poke?

Hello again, tom:

Like the Patriot Act?? All of 'em. Talk about a bill of goods...

excon

[tomder55]

Ex the Patriot Act has an expiration date ,and in fact ,has already come up for a revote.

Entitlements quickly become the third rail of American politics where they become engraved in stone and it becomes unthinkable to even modestly reform them .

That is why the Obot/Fabians know that they can succeed with these small incrimental changes.

But the problem with that mentality is soon you become another Greece.

[Catsmine]

But the problem with that mentality is soon you become another Greece.

Add another chapter of "pass it to find out what's in it." This time it's an additional day's worth of paperwork per quarter to buy gasoline.

Stealth IRS campaign mandates millions of new 1099 tax forms - May. 21, 2010

[excon]

Hello again,

I don't know. Didn't we just see a post from you guys about the NJ governor who isn't going to raise taxes even though his state is broke. He's trying to be Greece too.

excon

[Catsmine]

Hello agian,

I dunno. Didn't we just see a post from you guys about the NJ governor who isn't going to raise taxes even though his state is broke. He's trying to be Greece too.

excon

Hope he does it the resposible way - stop spending money he doesn't have. Kind of a TEA party idea.

[excon]

Hope he does it the resposible way - stop spending money he doesn't have. Kind of a TEA party idea.

Hello again, Cats:

I didn't see anything about him stopping spending... All I saw was that he's not going to raise taxes... That's the easy part, though. It gets you guys all stirred up. But, let's see how many services he cuts.

excon

[Catsmine]

Hello agian, Cats:

I didn't see anything about him stopping spending... All I saw was that he's not gonna raise taxes.... That's the easy part, though. It gets you guys all stirred up. But, let's see how many services he cuts.

excon

Hi, Ex.

Yes, let's.

Maybe a good place to start would be the mob payoffs. This is Jersey, after all. How about government cars, pension calculations based on overtime, and maybe salary caps?

[excon]

Hello Wingers:

Let me ask you this. Most of you are staunch supporters of Israel. Because WE, the US taxpayer fund the Israeli military, to the tune of billions of $$$'s, the Israeli government has enough money left over to provide universal health coverage for all their citizens...

So, in effect, we're paying for every Israeli citizens health care. Hmmm. Why would you do that, but you're not willing to pay for your OWN citizens health care? You like Jews that much?

I'm just saying.

excon

[Catsmine]

Hello Wingers:

Lemme ask you this. Most of you are staunch supporters of Israel. Because WE, the US taxpayer fund the Israeli military, to the tune of billions of $$$'s, the Israeli government has enough money left over to provide universal health coverage for all their citizens...

So, in effect, we're paying for every Israeli citizens health care. Hmmm. Why would you do that, but you're not willing to pay for your OWN citizens health care? You like Jews that much?

I'm just sayin.

excon

I like having a major military base in Asia Minor, especially since it has it's own serious military (Ranked right behind our 3rd ID and Brit SAS Division by Jane's).

[excon]

Hello again, Cats:

Me too. But, this is one of those things that make you go, hmmmm.

excon

[Catsmine]

Hello again, Cats:

Me too. But, this is one of those things that make you go, hmmmm.

excon

Okay. Hmmmm.