[richie56]

Verizon FIOS has just been installed in my neighborhood and I am trying to find out the performance and installation specifics to decide whether to switch to it. It has been difficult to obtain the technical details, but the latest info I have obtained about in-house distribution is that the signals - TV, phone, and internet - are distributed over telephone lines. This presents no problems for phone and internet, but the TV signal is connected to the set top box using a coax cable. I have two TVs that I would connect to FIOS neither having a coax terminated phone line near them. I have run a loose 4-wire phone line terminated in an RJ10 modular plug to each TV to connect to my existing satellite receivers.

To avoid the in-house installation wiring charges, I believe I can establish the connection by replacing the RJ10 plugs on my existing loose phone wires with male coax connectors that would attach to the set top box, or a female coax connector to which I could connect a short male-to-male coax cable. I have been unable to locate any RJ10 to coax adapter plugs, so what I need to know is how to connect the phone wires to the coax connector. My choice would be the green (+ or tip) wire to the coax center conductor and the red (- or ring) wire to the coax shield. I'd probably have to break out the soldering iron for the first time in a long time.

I could use the trial and error method, only two choices, but if anyone knows for sure, I'd certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much!

[medic-dan]

FIOS uses regular RG-6 coax to connect to the set top box and not a phone line. The TV signals are distributed via coax. A splitter is mounted at the ONT, coax is then run to your tv's. It's just the same as if you had cable, or an antenna, and were distributing the signals.

For internet, you have a choice. You can use coax to feed a router (they'll supply an Actiontec wireless router) but in my case I had them run a separate Cat-5 line out of the ONT to feed my existing router for internet access.

The ONT is where they take the fiber and connect the coax, Cat-5, and telephone lines.

The telephone uses the existing wiring. They'll just splice into the existing copper wiring.

You don't need a phone line at the set top box. There is no phone line connection on the 7100 DVR or the standard box.

Hope it helps.

[richie56]

Thanks for the info. My biggest problem is getting accurate technical info out of Verizon - one person even told me the TV signal was distributed wirelessly which I knew wasn't correct! Obviously another told me the telephone lines were used for TV signals; I know there was some attempt a while back to use electrical wiring for signal distribution, but I don't think it ever worked too well.

My problem is I don't currently have coax to the room where my desktop computers are (one 11 year old one which doesn't have wireless capability) - only telephone line for DSL. With Verizon telling me they will charge $54.99 to run each in-house cable, I'm trying to figure out what is needed so I can do it myself. Since it is coax, I can run it myself to both TVs and the computer room to connect the router, use an ethernet port to directly connect to the old computer, and then go wireless to other computers.

I'm still deciding whether to get FIOS. I currently have satellite DVR receivers with 56 hours of HD storage capacity and don't know if I can get by with FIOS's 20 hours, but your answer clears up the connection issue. Thanks again for your prompt help.

[KISS]

There is a lot of info here about Fios and installs:

Search » fios installs - dslreports.com

I was under the impression that you needed a CAT5 cable and RG-6 at each TV location.

Here is the actiontec router page for fios: Actiontec MI424WR Verizon FiOS Router

For your PC upstairs you can put a wireless repeater nearby. It will repeat the wireless and you can plug devices into it's integral hub. If you don't need the repeater functions, you can use it as an access point.

You can buy wireless cards for PC's, but maybe not for one that old or even USB/wireless adapters.

[medic-dan]

I was under the impression that you needed a CAT5 cable and RG-6 at each TV location.

If you mean for the guide data, etc? It comes in via the coax, but you do need to have the router on the network hooked to the coax.

There is an ethernet port on the back of the set top box, but it's not connected, just the coax is. I don't think it does anything, yet, but I haven't tried it.

And it's fast...

[KISS]

How about the Ethernet port to be used for things like pay per view?

[medic-dan]

It's not connected to anything and the DVR and all work. When I had it installed I told the guy I didn't want their router and he said I needed it for the guide, etc.

The Actiontec router is physically connected to the coax, it has a coax port on it, as well as RJ45. No Actiontec, no guide data, no video on demand.

You don't need to plug a cable box into a telephone do you for those service do you? I never had cable so I don't know.

[richie56]

I've done some more reading on FIOS installation and found an article saying the Actiontec MI424WR router is connected to the ONT with a Cat5/RJ45 connector cable. The coax jack on the router is described as an OUT jack to send Guide and VOD to the TV boxes.

I still don't know if Verizon will charge me for in-house cabling, so I want to run cables myself before installation if I can. I've found 30' Cat5e/RJ45 cables for reasonable prices online, but they all say they are Patch Cables. Should I use a Patch Cable for the connection between the ONT and router? If not, what is a straight-through cat5e cable with RJ45 at each end called, or will I have to buy the cable and put the connectors on myself to get what I need.

I don't know much about LANs/networks and don't need one wired in my house. I just need an RJ45 connection between the ONT and router. Appreciate it if you can tell what to sprecify when buying. Thanks again for your help.

Column by PC Magazine: Good-bye Cable TV, Hello Fiber - A Messy Nest of Wires - Columns by PC Magazine

[medic-dan]

Verizon will do most of the install, you don't have to worry, or pay. You only pay for lines run to where they are installing your tv's. They will set up the Actiontec router and connect it to the ONT, not you. Yes, it connects using coax and there are RJ45 jacks on it as well, for your network. They will ask for your input as to where to mount the stuff.

A straight through cable is called a "Patch cable." You can get them already made or buy a box of Cat-5 cable and run your own.

It takes a good several hours to do this. You can probably run the wires while they're setting things up. So talk to the installer before you start pulling all sorts of wires.

You don't need Cat-5 for the TV, only the coax. The cat-5 is for your own network, if you have one.

Remember, you only need to have the coax in place for the tv's. They can probably use your satellite coax.

[KISS]

Although not in the simplest terms, the use of the Ethernet ports are described here a bit for DVR's. 3.1 Actiontec Verizon Online FiOS FAQ - dslreports.com

It looks like it has a purpose, but I can't figure out what it is except that the coax or the ethernet can be used for data depending on how it's setup.

Anybody take care to take a stab at it?

[KISS]

Ritchie:

What is ONT: Optical Network Terminal? Verizon Online FiOS FAQ - dslreports.com does sometihing to simply explain it, but the pic doesn't match.

The pic seems to show a Verizon internet only install. No TV.

It looks like the jist of things, is they take the easy way out and run data and video through coax. The actiontec router moves the coax data to the RJ45 ports at the router.

It doesn't make sense to deliver it on both mediums to a single device.

Thus, IT WOULD SEEM, you would need to use the CAT5 connections on the DVR's if you supplied your own router.

Make sense anybody?

Long Patch cables
Yep, looks like they would work, however, the real word might so the following. Solid wire through walls. It's much easier to run to a RJ45 punch down block at both ends. Simple plastic tools come with some connectors.

Because you want the wires to flex at the endpoints, but remain solid through the walls. The one to the ONT, can be inside and a 3 or 4 foot patch made to the ONT.

[richie56]

I got the best info about FIOS installation from this article:
Column by PC Magazine: Good-bye Cable TV, Hello Fiber - A Messy Nest of Wires - Columns by PC Magazine
To see several pictures of the ONT, click on the slideshow link at the top right of the article. It starts with the meter Verizon uses to check coax paths, but it will get to 4 or 5 good pictures of the ONT itself.

From what I've been able to find out, all TV data (TV signal, Guide, and VOD) is delivered to the set top box (STB) via coax. The TV signal comes via a coax from the ONT; the guide and VOD data come from the internet through access at the Actiontec router, and to the TV from the OUT coax port of the Actiontec. There is an ethernet port on the HD/DVR STB, but Verizion says it is not working - most likely reserved for some as yet developed networking features.

What I'm not clear on is exactly how the coax from the router is connected to the STBs. I assume the coax will run back to the ONT and is connected to some type of combiner to send the Guide and VOD data over the same coax that is sending the TV signal. So I plan to put both a Cat5e and coax cable running between the probable locations for both the ONT connections and the router, coax from the ONT connections to each TV location, and let the FIOS technician connect them as necessary. The ONT connections will be in the basement, one TV is in the basement, the router and other TV are on the 1st floor with unfinished ceiling and crawl space beneath them, so I won't have to be fishing wires through walls and finished ceilings to run them.

Now, after all this, I'm still not sure I want to switch to FIOS, but I'm beginning to lean that way. Thanks for your input.

[KISS]

Best practices suggest that all wires are home runs to a central location where cables are grouped by similar lengths. Like two 100 foot, two 50' and two 25'.

This is fine EXCEPT the best position for a wireless router is in the center of the structure which probably isn't the same place.

That solution is simple. The wireless is disables on the initial router and an access point is used instead to provide wireless. Repeaters are used to fill in wireless holes in the signal.

If we assume that this is sort of a cable modem distribution of the data, then there is what's called "reberse channel" dta that's transmitted in the other direction. This reqires a special splitter.

The ONT is designed to be a point of demarcation, not distribution. The less stuff there the better.

Your not going to put a coax splitter in the ONT. You would put surge supression there.

Do a search on "structured wiring" and you'll see what I mean.

[richie56]

You're giving me overkill. I'm not building a Wi-Fi for the neighborhood with repeaters etc. The one computer that will connect wirelessly is a desk top just 2 rooms and 12 feet as the crow flies away from the router location; the other 2 are desktops right next to the router and will connect via ethernet. We don't own any lap tops.

It's not the internet I'm concerned about, it's TV. I just want to run the in-house paths so I won't have to pay Verizon to do it. Verizon will install all the appropriate connection hardware to get those paths working from their ONT.

[KISS]

Ok, I gave you best practices. I think if you want to do it cleanly using the new information then put a low voltage wall plate in with a coax and cable line in and run the cables to the ONT.

Leave them unterminated with enough slack and or make the connection at the wall outlet.

Since you need the wireless upstairs, why not another Ethernet and coax connector to the other room.

So, your CENTRAL location is where the router sits. It will probably have 3 coax connectors and two ethernet connectors and possibly a phoe connecter at that wall.

A splitter and 3 coax patch cables will do the TV and 3patch cables for the internet.

Once you sell the place or try to paint all you'll have is wall plates on the wall.

[medic-dan]

I think we're going above a standard install here. For the basic install tv/internet/phone, you get their actiontec router. The only connections to the set top box is via coax. The router does connect to the coax and also has RJ45 out for your network.

Check this from Verizon. You only need coax. It tells you what they will do.

http://www22.verizon.com/residential...one/84836.htm?

FYI they will not use the screw-on or the cheap crimped-on connectors on the coax. They use the compression fit connectors, like your existing satellite connections.

Please post back when you've made the change. It's really not that bad of an install.

[KISS]

There is nearly ZERO information there.

They can't even give you any info when installing DSL.

[medic-dan]

I agree that there is "nearly ZERO information there."

It does say however "existing coaxial outlets." It does not mention Cat-5 as it is not needed for TV, it isn't.

Lily Tomlin used to play a phone operator. She usually ended the skit by saying (pre FIOS, DSL, or Cellphone times)...

"The next time you complain about your phone service, why don't you try using two Dixie cups with a string? We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company."

[KISS]

Laugh-in, right? Yep, it did notice the word "existing".

Someone would have a field day installing FIOS at home. About 8 locations from a roof mount antenna supplied by four quad taps. All Rg6Q to a central location.

Then for fun an RG6Q DeseQ antenna rotator (Puts power and rotor conrtol and optional RF on coax)

Then a mast mounted U/V preamp on the roof with the ower supply in the attic.

0-35 db of amplification and the ability to insert something on RF channel 4 in analog TV.

The old way.

Gee, what would the new way be. An 8 channel bidirectional splitter/amplifier? And loose the roof system and ability to insert?

My friend says that school teaches you "what to think", not "How to think".