[NeedKarma]

Senator Nick Xenophon says Scientology is 'a criminal organisation' | National News | News.com.au

The man has balls of steel. He's right of course. It'll be interesting to see how this develops. France and Germany have already convicted it of fraud. More issues here: Scientology controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What are your thoughts on this "religion"?

[spitvenom]

In the catholic church they have transubstantiation that turns bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus! So how is that less crazy then thinking aliens are the saviors. I say if you going to call Scientology a criminal org why not call all the other religions the same. Well unless they prove that BS is real.

[speechlesstx]

Spit, I think the issue here is the illegal activities of the 'church' and its members, not how crazy they are - which is virtually undisputed among non-Scientologists.

[slapshot_oi]

I say if you going to call Scientology a criminal org why not call all the other religions the same. Well unless they prove that BS is real.!

Because I don't have to pay any money to be a Christian. You won't get into a Scientological (?) church if you don't have cash.

I'm sure we all can agree capitalizing off people's emotions is just wrong. Reminds of history class when we learned about the sale of indulgences.

[tomder55]

I don't like anything about Scientology. But they are unfairly persecuted . However ;if there is evidence of forced imprisonment, coerced abortions, embezzlement of church funds, physical violence, intimidation and blackmail ;then they should indeed be investigated and charged . Just as us Catholics support the prosecution of predatory priests and their enabling Bishops ,so should followers of Scientology be concerned over these activities.

[NeedKarma]

But they are unfairly persecuted .

I think they are fairly persecuted. How do you see it otherwise?

[excon]

Hello NK:

Scientology, like Islam, Christianity, or even Catholicism isn't to blame for the actions of a few of its members.

Scientology, as an organisation, doesn't do that stuff.

excon

[NeedKarma]

Hello NK:

Scientology, like Islam, Christianity, or even Catholicism isn't to blame for the actions of a few of its members.

Scientology, as an organisation, doesn't do that stuff.

excon

The problem with Scientology isn't with just a few members, it's with the way the "religion" is set up from the top down. Read the second link in my OP.

Edit to add: what did you mean by "that stuff"?

[spitvenom]

I remember being a kid in catholic school. At the beginning of every year we would get our "offering" envelops. They would have our name on it and every envelop had a date. Man if you missed one Sunday with out giving your "offering" in that specific envelop they would belittle you in front of your entire class.

Plus when my brother asked me to be the god father of his kid I had to join a different catholic church and give them an "offering" of at least $50. And funny enough now every month I get "offering" envelops with my name and the specific date. I see no difference.

[excon]

The problem with Scientology isn't with just a few members, it's with the way the "religion" is set up from the top down

Hello again, NK:

You can argue whether it's a religion or not, or whether it's entitled to a tax exemption, but I submit that as an organisation, it does not forcibly imprison, coerce abortions, embezzle from the church, do physical violence upon, intimidate and/or blackmail people, which is what they're accused of.

excon

[NeedKarma]

I see...
Are you in any affiliated with them?

[tomder55]

Typical ankle biting . Excon gave you a fair response .

[excon]

I see ........ Are you in any affiliated with them?

Hello again, NK:

I don't carry water for anybody, and I don't "affiliate". They're not criminals because they, as an organisation, don't commit crimes.

If you're asking whether I know about them beyond the cursory, the answer is yes. You shouldn't draw any conclusions about that, however. I happen to know a lot of stuff

excon

[NeedKarma]

So all those websites, videos, court cases, they are all made up?

[NeedKarma]

Strength in their numbers: More Church of Scientology defectors come forward with accounts of abuse - St. Petersburg Times

They are stepping forward — from Dallas and Denver, Portland, Las Vegas, Montana — talking about what happened, to them and their friends, during their years in the Church of Scientology.

Now their stories have prompted other former Scientology veterans to go public about physical and mental abuses they say they witnessed and endured.

[excon]

So all those websites, videos, court cases, they are all made up?

Hello again, NK:

Oh, they're hated, all right, but that doesn't make them criminals.

Do you remember the Moonies? Do you remember how badly they were vilified? They haven't changed. It just so happens that the Rev. Moon is a neocon and gives away lot of money. Maybe the Scientologists should have tried that.

excon

[tomder55]

So people like John Travolta and Tom Cruise and hundreds of other notable members were coerced into joining and are being abused as members ? Not likely .

[NeedKarma]

So people like John Travolta and Tom Cruise and hundreds of other notable members were coerced into joining and are being abused as members ? Not likely .

No, they are the "celebrities" that help to raise the awareness.

Ex, most religions don't copyright their message and charge large sums to move up the hierarchy. Most religions attempt to spead their message to as many as possible. The COS has gone as far to copyright the message and sue those who infringe.

Remember:

You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. - L. Ron Hubbard, 1948

[excon]

ex, most religions don't copyright their message and charge large sums to move up the hierarchy. Most religions attempt to spead their message to as many as possible. The COS has gone as far to copyright the message and sue those who infringe.

Hello again, NK:

Ok, this is the right argument. I agree with you. They are NOT a religion. That doesn't make 'em criminals.

excon

[NeedKarma]

Ok, this is the right argument. I agree with you. They are NOT a religion. That doesn't make 'em criminals.

I believe they are:

Critics also allege that the Church uses litigation as a cover for intimidation tactics, such as investigating the criminal records of opponents (or lack thereof) and subjecting them to surveillance and invasive inquiries, both to discourage further criticism and to ensure the opponent's unwillingness to fight the lawsuit. A policy letter by L. Ron Hubbard, distributed in early 1966, says:
This is correct procedure: (1) Spot who is attacking us.(2) Start investigating them promptly for FELONIES or worse using own professionals, not outside agencies.(3) Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.(4) Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way.[17] Opponents of Scientology cite this passage, among others (such as the widely documented Fair Game doctrine), to support their contentions that the church uses smear tactics to augment the effectiveness of legal threats.