Originally Posted by
mtconc
bljack..if i understand correctly you are implying that a stone floor would require a
minimum substrate of 2 1/2" from the joist up?
No, a layer of 3/4 t-g
Properly installed and a layer of 1/2" or 5/8"
properly fastened would be sufficient for the subfloor and underlayment layers. It's the joist structure that would need the strengthening, either by supporting it from below with posts and a beam to effectively reduce the span of the joists or by sistering them to effectively double the strength.
For ceramic, the minimum deflection criteria is L/360, or for every inch of unsupported span, when a load (300lbs for a ceramic assembly) is placed at mid span, the joists cannot deflect more than one 360th of an inch for every inch of span. This would mean that for a 10 foot span, the joist cannot deflect in the middle more than 1/3". That might seem like a lot, but you wouldn't feel it. More often, the killer is deflection between the joists. That too, must be at L/360, or in numeric terms, the subfloor panels cannot sag between the joists more than 4-one-hundredths-of-an-inch. (.04"). Where on earth the "You must have 1.25" of subfloor" comes from I don't know. If you know what you are doing, how to select the right grade and species of plywood and the proper setting materials and exactly how to dot your I's and cross your T's, that would be the case for a direct to plywood installation.
More plywood is always better since cement boards are not a structural part of the floor, but the minimum is 3/4" tongue and groove plywood on joists 16" oc, attached to the joists with a single bead of subfloor panel adhesive where panels cross the joist and a double bead where two panels join on a joist. The panels must be fastened a minimum of every 6" where they meet on a joist and every 12" where they cross a joist. Providing the joist system is designed to achieve L/360 or better using 40/10 loading, your subfloor between the joists will be between .04 and .025, well within the limits. Follow?
Note: If plywood is to be added to the subfloor, the minimum thickness of plywood allowed in a ceramic floor assembly is 3/8" plywood and the minimum quality is cc plugged and sanded , rated as "exterior" or "exposure 1." CDX, Sheathing rated plywood, pressure treated and all 1/4" plywood products are specifically excluded from ceramic and stone floor assemblies. I'll cover the fastening below.
Frazwood
INSTALLATION OF PLYWOOD UNDERLAYMENT PANELS
Install the panels so the long edge crosses the joist. Do not use glue. Using beads of construction adhesive creates voids between the panels as it does not compress into a full spread layer between the two (as does the thinset used under cement boards) and in time the underlayment panel fatigues (creep) and results in failure. The exception would be full lamination of the panels with a trowelable adhesive but even that is not desirable as you lose the effect of the underlayment helping to isolate the floor above from some of the seasonal movement of the dimensional lumber joists.
The underlayment panels should be placed so that the short edge of the panel ends 2-4 inches past the joist, not on the joist. Offset the long edge from the subfloor panels by a foot or more. Stagger the panels so that 4 corners do not come together. 1/8" gap between panels and 1/4" gap around the room. Fasten the panels with coated screws every 6" around the perimeter and every 8" within the field, fastening in straight rows so any bowing in the plywood is removed. Do not fasten the underlayment into the joists, fasten it only to the subfloor panels. Excessive bowing in the underlayment panels can be removed by setting a circular saw at the depth of the bottom veneer and making a series of cuts along the length of the ply, in dashes, to release some of the pressure of the odd number of veneers. Since it is along the strength axis, it does not reduce the strength of the panel.
Happy tiling :D