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navz22 · Nov 1, 2006, 02:40 PM

I cannot find any state or federal law governing the rights of subletters that have not signed a written lease in the sate of California. My question is that my roommate and I have been sharing a 2 bedroom apt for a bit more (and by a bit I mean weeks) than a year. He has decided that for whatever reason he wants to live alone. He would not give me any other reason. He cannot give me valid reasons such as late rent payments or unsatisfactory living conditions or that I am a disturbance. (My areas are always clean and I leave very little or no mess in the common areas, and rent has been paid by check to him every month ("rent" always memoed on check) on time (and occasionally early). He's just decided he wants to live alone. He has gone on to tell me that I need to move and that he is my landlord and that I have no standing on the matter because he and I never signed a lease/contract. Prior to me moving in I had him talk to the landlord (both by his and my discretion) to insure that she would allow me to live there. She and I met, she gave the OK, and see each other regularly (she gardens at the complex regularly).

Point: Do I have any legal standing with above said? Additionally, I have received mail and packages at the apt for the entire time I've been there. I can also prove via cashed checks that I have never failed to pay rent nor has it ever been late.

Please help?
I thank you for your time and consideration!

Pseudo Subtenant in SoCal.

excon · Nov 1, 2006, 02:51 PM

Hello Pseudo:

At the very best, you are a month to month tenant (most roommates aren't EVEN that). As a month to month tenant, he can ask you to leave with 30 days notice.

excon

navz22 · Nov 1, 2006, 03:16 PM

Dear "excon"

If you are not a lawyer would you be so kind as to educate me on where you found this information?

Thank you.

LisaB4657 · Nov 1, 2006, 07:30 PM

excon is entirely correct. If you pay rent on a monthly basis but have no written lease then you are considered a month-to-month tenant. Either the landlord or the tenant (in your case the sublandlord or subtenant) can terminate the tenancy with 30 days notice.

You can read all about it at
http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/catenant.pdf

Fr_Chuck · Nov 1, 2006, 09:12 PM

Yes you are a very rude person and I can see exactly why they want you to move out.

You owe excon a apology for being so rude to him.

You asked for what was your legal status.

You are a month to month rental, ( if you are paying rent by the month, which you said where)

So when in absent of a written lease, you are on a rental based on the standard payment procedure. If you paid every week, you are on a week to week, if you pay by the month you are on a month to month.

So you are a month to month renter with no written contract.
And under real estate laws a land lord with a renter, that is not on a written rental or lease is on that. This is just common knowledge of anybody in the real esate or rental business.

So since you are on a month to month ( which can be even on a written rental) the landlord can always evict you with a notice equal to your standard rental. Some cities or areas require a 30 days notice regardless of the status of payments.

So if the person who has the lease, gives you a 30 days notice they can force you to leave.

So stop trying to be a perry mason with all of that bull with I received mail there, your agreement is with the other tenant, and you sub rent from him.

And since there is no signed rental or lease, you have no defense what so ever.

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 07:34 AM

1) Excon, my intent was not to be rude in any manner and I appologize if I came across that way.
2) Friar, your version of rude is quite precise in my opinion. Asking excon to cite laws or rather to offer his sources was not at all rude. You are however entitled to your opinion.
3) Excon, I am not trying to find a loophole. My roommate and I are good friends. My main concern was that if he can evict me "because he wants to" than what's to stop any landlord from evicting a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong?

LisaB4657 · Nov 2, 2006, 07:38 AM

Navz22, one of the ideas behind a month-to-month tenancy is that either the landlord or the tenant can terminate the tenancy with 30 days notice, for any reason or even NO reason. That's why it's a good idea for there to be a written lease. This protects both parties and insures that the tenancy can't be ended early for any reason other than a violation of the written terms of the lease.

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 07:39 AM

Oh and Lisa, thank you very much!! I appriciate your answer and the link you provided.

ScottGem · Nov 2, 2006, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by navz22

1) Excon, my intent was not to be rude in any manner and I appologize if I came across that way.
2) Friar, your version of rude is quite precise in my opinion. Asking excon to cite laws or rather to offer his sources was not at all rude. You are however entitled to your opinion.
3) Excon, I am not trying to find a loophole. My roomate and I are good friends. My main concern was that if he can evict me "because he wants to" than whats to stop any landlord from evicting a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong?

The reason why Chuck felt you were rude has to do with your giving Excon a negative comment. You might want to review the guidelines I suggested here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...ure-24951.html

Excon gave you a factual answer. Therefore telling him it wasn't helpful could be considered rude. You were within your rights to ask for specific cites, but not give a negative comment.

So excon, Lisa and Chuck have given you the same, accurate info. To answer your last question the only thing to stop a landlord from terminating a tenancy whenever he wants to is a written or tacit lease. A written lease will specify the term of the rental. To terminate the rental prior to that end of the term would require some cause. But, without a written lease you are on a month to month basis. Therefore EITHER of you can terminate with one months notice without cause. Remember this is a two sided street. What if you were the one deciding to move out. You would be depriving the landlord of income.

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 07:58 AM

Eh regardless of Friars opinion. (although I don't nessacarily accept it - he is entitled to it) Scott, thank you for your words. I wasn't aware there were rules governing freedom of speech. Regardless. I understand what you're saying with respect to it being a two way street. My roommate was more under the impression that he could x me out on any given day w/o notice regardless of whether I've paid that months rent (and he'd accepted it in the form of cashing the check). Additionally, I would give (and have in the past) anyone I was living with more than due notice that I'd decided to terminate my tendency (usually 2 months).

excon · Nov 2, 2006, 08:01 AM

Hello again, navz:

Originally Posted by navz22

1) Excon, my intent was not to be rude in any manner and I appologize if I came across that way.

K.

Originally Posted by navz22

3) Excon, I am not trying to find a loophole.

I didn't say you were. You asked for the law. I gave it to you.

Originally Posted by navz22

if he can evict me "because he wants to" than whats to stop any landlord from evicting a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong?

Nothing, other than 30 days notice!

Apparently, because you're clean and get mail, you think you have a right to stay. Maybe you can explain how you came about that information.

excon

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 08:02 AM

Scott, additionally I read your comments "guidelines". And I stick by my initial comment to excon. He did not prove that it was factual. I specifically asked at one point if I had any legal standing. Regardless of the answer (be it that I do or do not) it would have been most pertinant to cite something. My negative comment was not a slam or to offend anyone. It was solely that his answer did not help me legally or point me in any direction. I am thankful for his opinion, and for him responding so quickly.

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 08:03 AM

excon
My lawyer actually.

excon · Nov 2, 2006, 08:06 AM

Hello again, navz:

Fire that lawyer.

excon

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 08:07 AM

excon. You can't fire military lawyers unfortunately. 1) They're free. 2) The military appoints them to you with an "end of discussion" type authority.

ScottGem · Nov 2, 2006, 08:29 AM

WHOA! You will not find a greater free speech advocate then myself, But maybe you should understand it before you wrap yourself in it. There has ALWAYS been rules governing freedom of speech. For example, libel and slander laws, you can't shout fire in a crowded theatre, among other restrictions. That being said, there is NO issue of free speech here. The post I linked to are suggested guidelines for using the comments feature. I specifically referred to them as that, not as "rules". Finally, if you specifically refer to the First Amendment of the US Constitution, it has no application here.

If your roommate is just telling you to move out tmmw (something you did not specify in the OP), then he is overstepping his bounds. He can't claim to be your landlord and not adhere to certain general rules and accepted practices. Yes he can terminate the arrangement at any time, but he has to give you one months notice before requiring you to move out.

Sentra · Nov 2, 2006, 08:45 AM

Military, eh? *sigh*

Find a new roommate and give your friend his space, he hasn't resorted to tossing your stuff out on the street, reporting you to his or your XO, or anything else that would be considered worse. Talk to him about maybe have an extra payday or so to find another roommate or place of your own, sounds iike he's being pretty upfront and honest with you.

I know that from your point of view it's a shady situation, but just get it taken care of WITHOUT any legal action, just my honest opinion.

excon · Nov 2, 2006, 08:49 AM

Hello again, navz:

Originally Posted by navz22

I am thankful for his opinion, and for him responding so quickly.

Had you thanked me initially, nobody would have thought you rude. You only thanked me after you were taken to task.

Your response was rude. As noted, you are free to be rude, but let's call a spade - a spade.

excon

navz22 · Nov 2, 2006, 09:03 AM

Sentra: 1) Why the "sigh"? 2) What would he report to my XO that wouldn't make my xo laugh in his face?
Excon: 1) Again, versions or perceptions of "rude" apparently differ widely. And if you'd like to call a spade a spade as you so aptly put it, enlighten me as to why I would even bother considering an answer from someone with a screenname such as "excon"?
2) I did thank you, regardless of whether it was after the fact.

Sentra · Nov 2, 2006, 09:07 AM

I sigh because I've seen what can happen to roomies in the armed forces, and I am only giving possible scenarios and trying to get across that the situation you are in isn't as bad as it could be, that's all, really.

No offense navz22, but we here at this site are giving advice because we want to help those who ask for it, lets not make this a battle over something that has nothing to do with your dilemma, which I hope becomes remedied.