[Lynley Jones]

My son is just on 16 and is very keen on a girl he met at school and who he has known for some time at school and at Scouts. Over the last month they have noticed each other more. The problem is that my wife has an objection to my son having a girlfriend until at least 18+ and has grounded him for his honesty in saying he likes this girl. He is now not allowed to go to any mixed sex events or parties and is even more particularly if the girl is there. My wife has said there is to be no outings without us till 18 and no girlfriends or just female friends at all. She is of the view that any of this causes problems. I ask her what has our son done for us to doubt him and the reply is nothing but I am not gioing to allow the temptation. As a result my son is very unhappy and the bond between him and the girl is so strong that she says she will not let her stand in the way. In fact in the next few days my wife will be confronted by the girl but I think that will make things worse.
I know the girl as well as I was a Scout Leader and they are both good kids. My wife won't compromise and says there is to be no talk of it from either me or my son as there is nothing more to say. My son knows the ground rules on this of what is expected etc but my wife won't compromise. The family tension at present is unbelievable.

[poseidon]

Hello Lynley,

I agree, the tension in your home must be pretty unbearable.

You do not say which country you hail from. If from the US I believe different states have their own laws with regard to parental control issues.

Whatever the law says, I believe your wife is being very unfair to her son. She must realise that a lot of children mature much earlier nowadays. She must learn to start letting him grow up and find his own way in life.

All she seems to be succeeding in doing is alienating him and you because of her attitude toward her son and this young lady. This is very likely to reverberate on her later. If she insists on treating her son in this way things are likely to get worse and as soon as he is able or legally entitled to do so, he will up and leave home and the love and respect between mother and son will undoubtedly suffer. I am sure she does not want that to happen.

She probably feels, like most mothers, that no girl is good enough for her 'little' boy, but she must learn to realise and accept that her son is no longer a little boy, he is nearing adulthood and must be allowed to do so without too much interference from her. Mistakes and all.

She should be there to help and advise him when he needs it, but not lay down the law about where he should go and who he should see.

I am wondering whether this attitude stems from the way your wife was treated when she was growing up. Was she denied her freedom at that age?

She must realise that the world has changed since she was 16 and teenagers expect and are entitled too much more freedom.

From what you say, both your son and this young lady are acting in a very mature manner and please forgive me for saying so, I feel his mother should be acting in the same way. It appears that she knew nothing about her sons feelings for this girl until he was open and honest about it and told her.

I am a man with three grown up children but when they were your sons age I still felt over protective and worried about them. Not only my daughter, but my two sons also. However I decided that they were old enough and mature enough to make the right decisions. The trust I gave them was not in vain and they did not let me down.

From the way I read your post, it appears that although you know and trust this young lady, your wife does not. If this is the case I feel it unfair that she should be judging her.

If I was concerned I would at least want to get to know her. Possibly by inviting her to my home and giving her a chance to get to know me and vice versa.

If the feelings these two have for each other are as strong as they appear to be, I doubt that anything will prevent them from seeing each other with or without permission. As they say, 'love will find a way'.

I also feel your wife is being very ostrich like (burying her head in the sand) by not being prepared to discuss the problem.

Both you and your son have every right to insist that the attitude your wife is showing be discussed and my advice would be to tell her that what she is doing and not being prepared to talk about it is likely to tear the family apart and she is possibly running the risk of eventually losing her son completely. Also if he feels so strongly about this girl, he is being put in an impossible position by having to make a choice between his mother and the young lady.

I agree entirely that if this girl confronts your wife in the present situation it will likely be disastrous for all concerned. She may want to see your wife with the best of intentions but the way your wife seems to be feeling at the moment, no good will come of it. Tempers are likely to flare, the door may be slammed in the girls face and the damage it could do to all of you could be irreparable. If she confronts your wife it is very likely that both you and your son will be forced to take sides, which will do no one any good and only make matters worse.

Far better would be to try to convince your wife to sit down with you and your son and discuss the situation rationally and thoroughly and give everyone the opportunity to put their side. It does no one any good bottling up these things and refusing to try to find an acceptable solution.

With regard to the law, if you live in the UK, your wife has no legal right to stop her son seeing whoever he wants, or even leaving home if he so wishes.

My advice would be to find out how the law stands where you live and if your wife no longer has the power to stop her son seeing whoever he wants, she must be prepared to accept this if necessary. If this does turn out to be the case, it should not be used as a weapon to force her to accept the situation, but more of a bargaining tool. It obviously goes without saying that it is not an ideal situation to have to quote the law with a problem like this, far better to try to resolve the situation between yourselves.

I have no doubt that your wife loves her son with all her heart, as of course do you, and wants the very best for him. But I feel she is very wrong in laying down the law in the way she is and trying to prevent him from seeing the girl he has strong feelings for. He is sixteen and mature enough to tell his mother how he feels for this girl therefore his mother should accept this and be prepared to trust him and the girl.

My apologies for such a lengthy reply.

I would love to know how things turn out. Would you please post something here later to let us all know? Thanks.

Good luck and I truly hope everything works out.

Cy
(Poseidon)

[ashleysb]

I think your wife's decision could backfire on her. I personally think 16 is a good age to start dating. The whole point of dating is for your son to find what characteristics he likes in girls and which ones he doesn't. That way, when he is older, he doesn't just marry the first beautiful thing that come into his life, which could easily end in divorce. If your wife isn't going to let him date and be around girls, he will probably find one, and completely detach himself from your wife. Or from not having any experience with girls, he could become terrified of ever approaching one for a date later. I don't think she wants that so she needs to realize what the consequences of these rules will be. I would think your son is responsible enough to go to a movie or dinner with a girl, or even have her over for dinner, and she just might win your wife over! If your wife is afraid that he might get his heart broken, it probably will happen, but I'm sure he will break a few hearts along the way too. Like I said, dating is just finding what is right for him.

[Sentra]

Regardless of putting limits on his social activities her little boy will eventually grow up and leave the nest. Limiting him will only make him look forward to that day way more than he should, and will create resentment towards his mother. Keeping anyone from doing what they want will only make them want it more, it will make that person think they have little trust from the people that are playing 'dictator'.

If she is worrying about losing his heart to another woman who isn't 'mom', it won't ever happen. A man's heart is limitless. Just because he falls in love or like doesn't mean he doesn't love his mother, or you. To him she will always be the woman in his life, if he ever gets his heart broken (hopefully it never happens, and if it does I hope he keeps his head high) he will always have at least one woman he can depend on and trust, and that will be mom.

Have the girl over for dinner a few times. Let them watch movies together at home. Take your wife on a date along with the two of them. Guidance should come with love, trust, discipline and morality, not hindrance and doubt.

Personally, I think you should put your foot down and take control of the situation but if your marriage doesn't constitute the man as being head of the household then just shrug this statement off. :)

Good luck to you and your son, your wife as well, she sounds scared to pieces.

[Krs]

The more you restrict your kids the more they will rebel. Parents need to find a mediocre with their kids. Especially at that age.

Your wife should understand and at least respect your child's honesty. Probably now he knows that he shouldn't tell all truth to his mum when it comes to girls again, though he may still speak to you, as, as a dad, he knows you understood his position.

[talaniman]

I hate to throw even more tension in your house but if you can't convince your wife to at least compromise then you will have to be forceful in your defense of your son and his "education". You sound like a very good father and it will go along way to making a stand for your son's freedon. From the sound of it you've raised a good young man so far and I would hope it continues. He has asked respectfully and as a father to good kids... Support him. That's the right thing to do. She will be mad at first no doubt , but hey you have to do what you have to for your children. Talk to your woman, dad, and take the heat for your son. She is wrong. He is worth it.

[ScottGem]

What dark ages does your wife live in?? Does she want to lose her son? The best way to hold onto a child is give them freedom as they earn it.

What we have here appears to be a responsible and moral young man, active in Scouting. And a mother who hasn't a clue about the realities of the world we live in. The age of 14 is a reasonable time for boys to start dating (14 for girls). At 16 there is no question about it, 18 is ridiculous.

What I would suggest is that you bring your wife to your clergyman or similar advisor and have them try to talk some sense into her. Ask the girl to give you some time to turn your wife around.

But if she refuses or still holds her ground, you need to stop being a wimp and stand up to her. I doubt if you will find anyone who will not support 16 as a more than reasonable age to start dating. Tell her, in no uncertain terms, that she is being medieval and unreasonable. That you will not force your son to sneak around or openly defy her. That he has your permission to date and if she doesn't like it she can lump it.

[Lynley Jones]

I would like to thank everyone for their support and advice I feel more comfortable tackling this problem with my wife now. Some people asked where I was from I am form Melbourne,Victoria, Australia. The law sates age of consent is 16 in our state of Victoria Australia. Some Australian States it is different. Marriage is if one partner is 18 and if one younger than that 1 parent or guardian of the younger one signs a form.That info is for those that asked

Once again I appreciate all of your support and advice so I have organised my 16 year old my wife and I to go out to dinner together to discuss this issue will let you all know how it goes next week after the public Melbourne Cup Holiday. I will be trying to convince my wife to meet this girl over the long week end and give her a chance. No problem from me as I already know this girl through Scouts.

[talaniman]

Best of luck and keep us posted from down under.

[DrJ]

Bringing in a 3rd party is probably not a good idea. I doubt she will be open to that... especially if brought about by you, your son, or this girl.

When she decided to make a decision and not allow compromise or any input or discussion from you, she decided to lose her right to make this decision at all.

I think its just time for you to put your foot down. Why is she even allowed to make a decision like this? I imagine it is not the first time either.

[J_9]

I thought parents were supposed to make decisions about their children together.

Is your wife controlling and manipulative in other aspects too?

[ScottGem]

I would suggest proceeding carefully. It sounds like your wife isn't planning on discussing this further. And if you broach it again, you might find yourself in the middle of a nasty scene.

I strongly disagree with Dr Jizzle about getting a 3rd party involved. Your wife appears to have closed her mind to what you or your son says. In such a case an impartial 3rd party may be able to provide some influence.

[DrJ]

Allow me to ellaborate: How open to a 3rd party do you think someone who thinks/feels as this man's wife does will be to a 3rd party that agrees with him, his son, and this girl and is BROUGHT IN by this man, his son, or this girl? She will likley disregard anything that person has to say based on the biasness or "ganging up" on her feeling she may have.

A 3rd party could have great influence on her thinking; however, it would have to be someone that she finds on her own or is otherwise connected to her. Maybe someone she thinks will side with her... only to find out the opposite.

So... knowing that she will likely not go confide in someone... looking for reassurance but be met with a reality check... on her own...

How does one instigate this unbeknownst to her?

[ScottGem]

A 3rd party could have great influence on her thinking; however, it would have to be someone that she finds on her own or is otherwise connected to her. Maybe someone she thinks will side with her... only to find out the opposite.

The same arguments hold if she chooses the person, in fact more so. She is clearly unlikely to ask the opinion of someone who doesn't agree with her.

But I disagree that it's a given that she will not listen to anyone suggested by the husband or son. For example, she may very well respect the pastor of their church. She might listen to him (or her). There are a few possibilities of people she might listen to and the husband will have a much better idea of who she respects. It could be her mother or a sister. But its certainly worht a try.

[DrJ]

Im curious to see how this pans out... hopefully, he will come back and give us an update

[ScottGem]

Im curious to see how this pans out... hopefully, he will come back and give us an update

I'm curious too, I'm also praying the mom comes to her senses. I'm sort of living through a similar situation so I know what can happen when a parent is way too restrictive.

[Maza_1989]

Just sit down with her and try and talk to her about it and try and explain that you can't keep him locked up forever.
You just have to try andf tel her to let go I know it will be heard at first but when will be the right time?
When was her first boyfriend I think she should just let him have his space and learn to let go.

[Lynley Jones]

Its me again . I am at a loss to see where to go to from here. I have virtually tried everything I know and suggestions made here to no avail. My wife still says No mixed company till 18 and preferably 21. A big argument went on last night and my son went to school very depressed and upset this morning. He wants to take this girl to a Social/Ball an important event for him and he has been told he is not to go as that will cause trouble. She won't talk to anyone and said she was not even allowed to ask to go out till 18 otherwise she would be in trouble and that is what she expects from my son. He is not allowed to go to any mixed company functions or outings at all even during the summer holidays in Australia which are coming up . I say I don't agree but she says it did not hurt her and she says he should not even think of girls till 18. She was brought up and went to a baptist School that saw dating at the time as evil sinful and as far as dancing goes that was not on. She does not go to a baptist tradition now but they certainly made their points stick .
What do I do now . All I have told my son to do is cool it temporarily but I realistically can't see an answer

[ScottGem]

I dislike saying this, but there are two things here. First, I think your wife is dangerously obsessed. Her refusal to talk to anyone, to realize that times have changed and what she is doing to her relationship with your son borders on the psychotic. I think she needs help, but I'm afraid she won't see that. So that leaves us to what you have to do.

You have to put your foot down. You have to say to your wife that her position is old fashioned and, worse, that she is harming her relationship with your son. You have to tell her that, while it hurts you to overrule her, you have to think of your son and you are giving him permission to go to this event with this girl. You can go on to tell her that if she doesn't get help with her obsession she will be damaging not only the relationship with her son but with you as well.

You seem to have a strong concern for your son and I think you need to put his well being first in this matter. What will your wife do if you put your foot down and tell her you are giving your son the go ahead? While this may not seem like a issue to end a marriage over, I sense this as only the tip of the iceberg.

[poseidon]

G'day again Lynley,

Thanks for keeping us updated on the problems your son and yourself are experiencing.

In my first post I said:

I am wondering whether this attitude stems from the way your wife was treated when she was growing up. Was she denied her freedom at that age?

This obviously appears to be partly the case and I am sorry but I feel she must be made to realise that times have changed and because she was brought up in such a strict environment, she should not think it gives her the right to treat her children in the same way.

There are 3 people in this relationship you, your son and your wife. You both have as much right to your say as she does and I feel you should insist that she listen to your and your son's point of view. This does not necessarily mean that you should take the same attitude as your wife is taking, she certainly appears to be literally laying down the law and not even prepared to listen to anyone.

Basically I believe she is saying that she considers her son is too immature and untrustworthy and if he starts dating this girl, or any girl at 16 he is very likely to become sexually active and possibly even make the girl pregnant. I certainly get the impression that he is sensible enough to know what he is doing. If your wife does feel this way, I can only assume that when she was 16 her parents felt they could not trust her either and that is why they denied her the freedom she was entitled to,

If he was so inclined, this could happen whether he was 16, 18 or 21.

Not all 16 year old males are alike and to be honest if my mother was inferring that I was likely to 'bring shame on the family' I would feel like you and your son.

How many 16 year olds does your wife know of who have dated and ended up bringing their family into disrepute? Not many I'll wager.

This young man has reached the age of sexual consent and by the same token she has no legal right to prevent him dating whomever he chooses and if he so desires, to be sexually active with them (provided the partner has reached that age of course).

From what you say in your last post, the rift between the family has started and will soon gather momentum. This rift is likely to reach a level where it cannot be repaired and what I assume was a happy, loving relationship, could soon become intolerable and break up.

The relationship between you all would be far easier repaired if she would realise what is at stake and listen to you and your son.

If she is not prepared to meet both of you halfway I cannot see an amicable solution and if the relationship you all have together does perish the only person she will be able to blame is herself, not you for wanting to trust your son and discuss the problem, not him because he wants to show his mother that he is mature enough and can be trusted, and not the fact that she had a strict Baptist upbringing and her son should 'toe the Line' as she was forced to do.

How will she feel if it comes to the stage that her son decides he cannot live at home in this situaion and moves out. If he does then there will be nothing she can do to prevent him seeing the young lady. Would it not be far better to allow them to date with her blessing. She could more easily and quietly keep an eye on the situation with him living at home than her son leaving home where she does not know where he is going or what he is doing.

I must agree with Scott, I am beginning to feel that your wife is becoming paranoid over this issue and that there is more to this than meets the eye. I am thinking that it is not only the fact that she was brought up so strictly that is making her so adamant, it goes much deeper than that.

Although I believe Scott feels that this problem is not likely to threaten the marriage, I feel it either could or at least severely strain the relationship between you all and if this problem is not speedily resolved, the relationship between you all can never be the same.

From the replies to your initial post it appears that virtually all those who replied feel much the same as I do. Perhaps your wife could be convinced to read them if she has not already.

The people who have replied are mature, intelligent people, a lot of whom have grown up children of their own. I have been married for 29 years and have 3 children including a daughter. All of them have had their problems and decisions to make when that age and they all needed to be shown trust and be listened to.

I was also brought up in a Christian environment, but my parents were prepared to give me the freedom to date girls from 15 onward and they trusted me. That trust was not betrayed and that was in the 'swinging 60s' when peace and free love was the 'in' thing

Again good luck and I pray for a speedy and happy resolution to the problem.

Cy
(Poseidon)