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justcurious55 · Oct 1, 2009, 09:21 AM

I have to ask younghyperlink, where are you from? What's your background?

I can't think of anyone I know who is second generation and still speaks like that. And I know a lot of second generation hispanics. The majority of my co-workers through out the years. A large percentage of my classmates. One entire side of my family.

Maybe I'm being a little biased here. The other day I was actually having a conversation with one of my co-workers. She's got less than perfect english. And someone had commented on the way she spoke. She was highly offended by it. I am a hispanic-american young woman and I don't like that it's being implied that me and other hispanic young-woman speak a certain way. My friend didn't like that someone implied she shouldn't be speaking a certain way. Everyone has their own way of speaking and I'm not understanding why you are so against her being able to use spanish to show her culture. If she's in touch with her culture shouldn't she be able to use a native language? If she's not in touch with her culture enough to use the language I don't understand why she would speak like someone who didn't grow up in america learning american english.

YoungHyperLink · Oct 1, 2009, 10:19 AM

Whew! I'm afraid I take too much for granted when I write, and am not very clear. Sorry!

First, I agree with you, justcurious, that the particular example I gave is not a common one for Hispanic Americans; it's more common among people who have learned English as a second language. I may have missed something, but I'm not sure what the exact background of Eileen's character is; is Spanish her mother tongue, or not? Was she born in the US? What socio-economic level did she grow up in? Did she learn English from Anglos, from fellow Hispanics, or as a school subject?

Secondly, I'm IN NO WAY assuming either that all people from a Hispanic background speak bad English, or that it's laughable if they do show traces of their background. It's completely true that California is hugely Hispanic, and that makes it no less American or cultured, if that's what you think I was saying.

All I'm trying to say is that there are variants of English like what Eileen is looking for. There are even reporters in the top US news networks with very marked "chicano" mannerisms, and that's not a slur. I hope you don't think it is.

rockie100 · Oct 1, 2009, 10:34 AM

Would it be helpful to rent a movie with a Hispanic actress in it?

justcurious55 · Oct 1, 2009, 10:47 AM

Thank you hyper link. I understand what you meant much more clearly now I think. And I agree. Without more details about the characters background it really is impossible. When I hear she lived in California her whole life and doesn't use any spanish words, well, someone could describe me that way. Lol

excon · Oct 1, 2009, 10:54 AM

Hello Eileen:

I'm an English speaker who grew up with bi-lingual parents. The second language wasn't Spanish, but it DOES have certain words that are not translatable to English. I use those words all the time. I suppose if someone heard my usage of it, they could make certain assumptions about my heritage...

Justy, above, told you the same thing. There just ARE some Spanish words that convey a much different feeling than their English counterpart does, IF there is even a counterpart.. In fact, it's probably the words that DON'T have a counterpart that a person of Hispanic heritage might use, such as pasole or chorizo, or tio.. THOSE words might be clues.

excon

Eileen G · Oct 1, 2009, 01:25 PM

Bear in mind, I am writing for a mainstream readership, and I'll be looking first for Irish or English publishers. I don't want to have a lot of foreign words in the story, just to give a hint of an accent.

Are there any films that would be worth watching?

justcurious55 · Oct 1, 2009, 04:19 PM

Where are you from eileen? I don't see that as a valid reason, being from California. Spanglish is very mainstream here. Throwing in a spanish phrase here or there would hint at an accent. I don't understand why you are really so against it. Having a hispanic character who isn't allowed to use spanish or be in touch with her culture just isn't making sense to me. It doesn't seem believable or real. Maybe you need to pick a character of a different background, one that you can actually observe?

Eileen G · Oct 2, 2009, 11:22 AM

I'm from Ireland, and I'm writing a book aimed at children/young adult, most of whom would not speak different languages. Notice that I'm not using any Irish words when I'm posting here, because I assume no-one would understand them, and they would be distracting. If I were posting on an Irish board, I might drop in some words. I reckon most people do the same in speech.

justcurious55 · Oct 2, 2009, 11:38 AM

OK. Now you've definitely lost me. The character in your children's book just had a home birth? I'm dying to know how that fits in. and why would children care about the cultural backgrounds? And is it really children? Or young adult? There's a huge difference. I know plenty of young adults that are cultured enough that they could understand the occasional foreign word thrown in. part of reading is understanding words from context. If you walked into the room in a gorgeous dress and someone said "que bonita. you look great." you wouldn't be able to have an idea of what they were saying? Or if you came to a restaurant in California you wouldn't be able to guess that your hispanic waiter was saying "thank you" when he or she said "gracias senora." when they saw the tip you'd left? Heck, I hear people who don't have a drop of hispanic blood in them use those phrases. If you're writing a book that takes place in California you should know what it's like in California. If you don't want any spanish used at all, you probably shouldn't write a book that takes place in California. San diego. That's spanish. It's nearly impossible to avoid spanish in California.

YoungHyperLink · Oct 2, 2009, 02:57 PM

Looks like you can get quite an idea of what kind of character you want right here. ;)

BorschtPie · Oct 4, 2009, 03:08 PM

Maybe it would be a good idea to do a character observation by frequenting Latino neighborhoods and kind of eavesdropping on a few conversations here and there! There are many people descendant of Spanish speaking families who don't speak the language at all but they are still exposed to Latino culture and traditions thus using certain Spanish words to describe foods... arroz con gandules, pasteles; rituals such as religion, mass =misa and Sweet 15 instead of Sweet 16= Quinceañera, oh and terms of endearment such as lindo, papi, bebo,beba, chulo, negra,etc...
Listen for it and you'll find something!

YoungHyperLink · Oct 4, 2009, 05:56 PM

Latino neighbourhoods are rather scarce in Ireland, I'm thinking. ;)

justcurious55 · Oct 4, 2009, 07:19 PM

I agree that latino neighborhoods are probably scarce in ireland. But I also agree that it's really the only way to see the culture, to go and witness it. :)

Eileen G · Oct 5, 2009, 02:06 PM

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to make enough on this book to justify that. And it's not essential that my character is Hispanic, I just want a reasonable range of characters. I doubt that many of my readers speak Spanish, any more than you have the cupla focal, and there's a real danger of using words incorrectly.