[hanabelle]

I think certain breeds have a more aggressive streak than others but doesn't mean that they are bad dogs. And you can't generalize a breed because their owners foolishly trianed some of them to be that way. I use to be very scared by pit bulls because my brother was attacked by one when he was ten years old. My grandmothers neighbor's pitbull wasn't on a leash and it escaped from the neighbors house and ran into the yard and bit my brother in his leg. The neighbor had to pry the dog off him. Now what caused the dog to come into my grandmas'yard and bite my brother was unknown but we found out later that the neighbor admitted to training it as an attack dog. Well instead of training it to attack intruders on their property, it tried to attack almost anything, becaue a week after this happened to my brother, a woman was walking by with a baby stroller and the dog burst though a screened door and attacked the woman, thankfully the baby was okay, but the dog ended up having to be put down. Its very unfortunate because I have actually beeen around a few pitbulls that are actually very very sweet. But I also know the people who own them and they didn't train them to attack any one. You can't generalize a breed, are there breeds more dispositoned to be more aggressive? I think so but that doesn't just include pit bulls, German shepards, Rotties, and Dobermans also can be aggressive. If you can't take the responsibility to train a dog properly than you shouldn't own one. Unfortunately many think they can and end up with a dog that is a danger to humans and other dogs. Shame on the owner not shame on the dog or its breed, a dog learns behavior what its taught.

[Katy]

I agree that now days specific breeds can be frightening; however, I strongly feel that is the owners of these dogs and not the animals themselves that need to be punished. Different breeds have different temperaments, and pit bulls have a long history of being bred for dogfights. This means they are naturally more aggressive toward other dogs, but not to humans. Temperaments are also inherited, but can be changed in the proper environment... say to make pit bulls less aggressive toward another household pet. Hundreds of families have properly trained pit bulls, Dobermans, German Shepards, and Rottweilers that are friendly household pets. My point: breeds may be more aggressive by nature, but it is the owner's responsibility to care for and train their dogs.

[aaronpardy]

I am responding to the quote of pit bulls are pests and should be banned. I have never owned a pit bull till my boyfriend brought one home by surprise, a 5 week old black and white girl and to be honest I didn't want anything to do with this dog and not for the fact it was a pit bull but for the fact it was a dog, I never owned a dog prior and now that I do, I love her to death, I have never seen a dog with more intelligence and personality and compassion for its owner, she has been in 2 training courses and picked up on the training extremely well. I am a strong believer that a dog will do what its trained to do and if a person is abusive to an animal then of course if you were the animal being beaten would you take it, that's is the questionto ask yourself, people believe these dogs have no feelings and to treat them like a tool and so don't blame the dog, blame its master cause if you give your dog the attention and love and correct discipline he or she needs, your dog will not be aggressive and this comes from personal experience, my dog has no aggressive bone in her body and people who didn't like pit bulls met her and they love her. She is very social with other dogs and all people and not saying that all of them are that way but then again that comes with any breed of dog, not all are social type. People are to blame for cruelty to these prro animals. Would you ban a tiger or a cougar from existence, well then why would you a pit bull, its is not a humans right to ban a dog, they have as much right as you and I to walk the earth god has given us. We have already destroyed enough, lets not add more to it.

[kp2171]

Marauding pit bulls attack six
Boy, 10, in critical condition

Sunday, November 6, 2005; Posted: 9:30 p.m. EST (02:30 GMT)

CARY, Illinois (AP) -- A 10-year-old boy was in critical condition Sunday after three pit bulls escaped from a home and went on a rampage, attacking six people before police shot and killed dogs, authorities said.

No charges had been filed Sunday, but McHenry County Sheriff Keith Nygren said it was being investigated as a crime scene.

Neighbors said the attacks started late Saturday afternoon when children going door-to-door for a fund-raiser arrived at the home of Scott Sword, 41, who owned the dogs.

"We had music playing, and I heard this bizarre sound," said Debby Rivera, who lives three houses away. "I looked out the window, and I saw a young boy. The dogs were just jumping on him."

"The screams were horrible," she said. The dogs were "relentless, like they were possessed."

The pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb, Nygren said. The boy's father also tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

"The scene sprawled over a couple blocks; it was a very chaotic scene," said Lt. Michael Douglas of the Cary Fire Protection District.

Residents threw rocks at the dogs and honked car horns to try to distract them from attacking before police arrived and shot the animals.

Jim Malone said he and a neighbor tried to beat the dogs back with baseball bats. "He'd hit them, they'd run, and they'd come back," Malone said. "This went on for 15 minutes."

The boy who was attacked, Nick Foley, was hospitalized in critical condition Sunday. His friend Jordan Lamarre, also 10, was in serious condition. Nick's father was listed in good condition. Sword and two others were treated for injuries and released.

Last week, another 10-year-old boy in Colorado was mauled by a pack of pit bulls that attacked him in his own back yard. The boy was in critical condition after the attack, and the hospital said Sunday his family had requested no further information about his condition be released.

The attack in the Denver suburb of Aurora came two days after the City Council banned pit bulls and other "fighting dogs." Owners who already had the dogs could keep them if they paid a $200 annual license fee.

[kp2171]

Again... I recognize that a stupid owner can make a loving dog a hateful beast.

I get it.

But I still don't care if an owner is offended if I cross to the other side of the street with my 2 year old.

And I still know the young woman whose face was ripped into by the pit bull when she did nothing to provoke the animal.

I'm not calling for them to be wiped off the face of the earth... but I surely don't want one next door to me when my son is outside.

[LoveMyBooBooGirl]

Is this what you do all day, looking for anti-pit bull media? Relax, smoke a joint, or will that make you go crazy and kill someone too?

[aaronpardy]

When an animal gets abused and mistreated that is what they have grown to understand and so its all they know how to do and I do understand that a person will be afraid to walk down the street if they notice a running free pit bull but you have to remember like my booboo said this yr it is fixated on pit bulls, next yr who knows what it will be, if you are concerned for a loose pit bull on the streets you should watch for any other dog loose on the streets too cause even though a dog may be small and look like it can do no damage to an adult, a child could just as easily have its face ripped off by a little dog and the throat has one major artery that with one bite by any dog one tooth is all it takes to puncture to the point and the person is helpless. I have never been chased by a big dog but I have been by small dogs and I have scars on my arm and scars on my chin from being bit by a mutt dog but I can't live my life being afraid to walk the streets. A parent should automatically fear a child on the streets in towns and not mostly for dogs, I would for people cause people are the most unpredictable animal of all. A dog big or small can do damage, its all depended on how they were brought up. Its sad though what people have done to these dogs or any other dogs who deserve a chance at a happy life.

[labman]

A dog running the street is a dog the owner doesn't care much about. Best thing is to call animal control for your area. Even if it is a usually well cared for dog that managed to get loose, the sooner it is picked up and taken to a safe place, the more likely the owner is to get it back safely.

A few people still live where they can let their dog run free, but in most places it is irresponsible and illegal. Even if they don't attack people or other pets, loose dogs spread disease, scatter garbage, foul yards, harm lawns and gardens, and contribute to the slaughter of unwanted pets.

[kp2171]

> LoveMyBooBooGirl

> got hobbies?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> is this what you do all day, looking for anti-pit bull media? Relax,
> smoke a joint, or will that make you go crazy and kill someone too?

Um... the article I copied was front page Yahoo news... not a lot of looking needed there.

As for smoking the joint, sorry, have a 2 year old I'm responsible for... that would be stupid, but then you know about that apparently?

... and as for killing someone, you've got to be kidding me. Almost funny how passionate the lovers of the breed can defend it to no end, but when someone is uncomfortable with the breed (again, I've NEVER said to kill 'em off), well... I'm just a raving homocidal lunatic in need of a joint and a hobby.

Wow. Almost funny.

Can't wait to send this to sarah. My friend who was mauled.

y'all watch out for them roaming packs of angry weiner dogs.

[majm45]

First off, "pit bull" is a slang term originated from the criminals that have marred their once honored reputation.
The correct term for this breed of dog would be Staffordshire Terrier or American Pit Bull Terrier. Calling them anything else just perpetuates the myth and stimga that uneducated people motivated by fear call them.
The Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier was bred into exsistance in the 19th century for the cruel sport of Bull Baiting. In Bull Baiting, a dog would attempt to grab onto a bull's nose in a ring before the slaughter and hold onto it until the bull collapsed. Any other bites the bull incurred were considered beneficial to the meat of bull, tenderizing it, as this happened right before the bull was taken to slaughter.
The characteristics that the Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier was bred for was the ability to never quit. They had to go into the bull pen and achieve their mission or die in the attempt. They were not bred for dog fighting, they were not bred for human-aggresive behavior. The desired characteristic was the overwhelming desire to please humans and NEVER QUIT. Human-aggressive behavior was immediately culled. It was not desired or tolerated. The dog handlers had to be able to control and trust the dog, in a pen with a 2,000 lbs beast with horns.
All of the recent media sensationalized press about the Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier is just a mirror of a fight I had to fight hard in the past, when everyone was anti-rottweiler. I have owned rotts all my life, in fact there is one sleeping at my feet right now, and would never stand for Breed Specific Legistation that Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier owners must now live with.
It is unfair, just irresponsible parents leaving their children alone with strange dogs and then being surprised that a child could provoke a dog, as most odg attacks involve unsupervised children. It has happened in my past, with a wonderful chow I had growing up, a man came over with his four year old son to talk to my dad, we told him not to mess with our dogs food bowl, the child did and almost had his nose torn off. The parent did not surpervise the child, allowed him to be harmed and the ****ing dog gets the blame.
This whole argument is just same **** different day, people no longer want to be accountable for their actions, and it is easier to blame something that cannot speak for itself, a dog. If this Breed Specific Legislation continues, it will just be a new outlawed breed of dog every so often, until even Americans cannot pretend to enjoy the freedom of having a wondeful family pet. It is a crying shame that people choose to remain uninformed and irresponsible, and continue to allow the mutation and manipulation of such a treasured breed.

[jennapbt]

Majm - Well said *claps*

[majm45]

Thank you jennapbt, for your support.
This was my surprise, I recently had to do an arguementative paper for my english class and I, of course, chose the BSL as my topic.
I could not find a website that was an anti-apbt/amstaffy organization. I found opinion columns from newspapers, opinion articles, and misinformed bloggers but as hard as I looked for an organization that could be behind this movement, I could not find it.
When you look up "anti pit bull" on Google, pro apbt/amstaffy websites come up resoundingly pounding the opposition into defeat. The only places I have found "anti pit bull people" are on message boards/blogs. I try to comment as often as I can to try and make them see the ripple effect that they will have if they let misinformation and fear make their decisions for them(ie - loss of all rights).
I even tried "I hate pit bulls" on Google, and found nothing, no organization, no mad mothers against the vicious pit bull, NOTHING. More pro apbt/amstaffy websites but nothing anti besides the same blogs/message boards.
I sit and wonder about HOW IN THE WORLD the powers that be managed to pass such silly legislation if it is so obvious that the people are not behind it. I mean, I simply cannot understand it. All I see out here on the World Wide Web is love for these recently tainted creatures. I see no hate for them, only a peppering of closemindedness.
http://sf.metblogs.com/archives/2005...ls_are_b.phtml A misinformed SF blogger I tried to set straight with a three coment diatribe, the last three comments made by Kayla, in case you are interested in seeing my other points in this argument or helping me out with these people, they are scared and fear the unknown. It should pass with help from the pro apbt/amstaffy community. Flood them into believing!

[LoveMyBooBooGirl]

I want to thank you for your well thought out post. I have tried to make the same point (remembering the anti-rott era myself). But those who don't want to hear logic won't hear of it. I have stopped posting on this entire forum for the most part due to the menality of a good majority of the members. I do pop in from time to time when I get an e-mail "posting alert". I wiswh there were more people like you.

[majm45]

Thank you LoveMyBooBooGirl for your support.
What weighs on me most is how these people form their opinions from news stories, the very news stories that are slanted to get that fear and prejudice reaction. I cannot understand how people do not realize that the media is toying with them. The graphic photographs and gory details are used to stir up closemindedness and fear.
Think about Iraq/Afghanistan, 2,000+ soldiers have died in the attempt to bring them freedom. We have seen oh, about 5 casket photographs. The powers that be have made it illegal to show photographs of the fallen soldiers. While I understand the family not wanting that pictured, I know that the media is complying with this illegal decree on purpose. If not, if we had seen 2,000+ casket photos, we would all be in Washington D.C. ripping Dubya from his royal throne.
Press on the American Pit Bull Terrier/Staffordshire Terrier is abused in the opposite way, graphic gory overload. Disfigured children, crying parents, etc. This is used to specifically garner a fear response from the general public, who trusts Tom Brokaw and won't question what Brian Williams is presenting. They will see, absorb, meet at the watercooler and give all American Pit Bull Terrier/Staffordshire Terrier owners bad looks and snide remarks. They will go to town meetings and push silly legislation on the sly of dog owners and rip rights away from everyone.
No one does any research anymore. There are no beloved muckrakers. There is no responsibility in the media. We are losing a fight for a damned good breed of dog, and I only fear my rotty is next.

[lilfyre]

I can not believe this post is still going and there are so many angry people, the pit bull is a vicious breed only if the human makes it that way. Any breed of dog can be made to be mean. This is only my opinion but if we took the individuals that are doing this and put them away for a very, very long time. Confiscated the belongings of such and individual and fined them more money then they would ever make, maybe this cruelty would stop. In most instances this crime is plea bargained down to a lesser offence and they get off with a small fine and they are back doing it in a few days. The laws need to be changed so this no longer happens, the dogs would be safer and no one would ever be bitten by a dog that was trained to fight.

[kp2171]

M'kay. Help me make this thread end on something other than each side calling each other blind and ignorant... maybe we can find a middle??

This thread has made me understand that it is unfair to judge any dog, American Pit Bull Terrier or otherwise, by its "breed" alone.

I have a friend with a dalmatian, a vet no less, that is a bit testy. And I will never allow my 2 year old near my wife's grandmother's beloved chow... as it is old and set in its ways and doesn't tolerate a noisy, unpredictable child. It doesn't like children, but it "rescued" the grandmother when she broke her arm and fell down some stairs. It also nips at my son when he comes near. We keep the two apart.

My intention was mostly to say I don't feel comfortable with my naughty boy, who is still learning right from wrong, around an animal that has had less than great press. The 76 year old Texas woman who was just mauled and killed by a pack of roaming pit bulls is another example... front page news Yahoo.

Clearly this was, in major part, an owner issue. Any moron who lets any pack of dogs roam the streets, regardless of breed, is just asking for trouble. I would, however, like to feel safe mowing my lawn, as she was, when this attack occurred, if there were dogs of this breed or other labeled "aggressive" breeds in the neighborhood. Saying the owner is to blame isn't going to ease the devastation the family will feel with the loss of a mother and grandmother. Fining a bad owner will never compensate for the loss of a life. Banning a dog because of "breed," however, doesn't seem fair.

The fact that there seems to be an "owner issue" is in itself the issue.

So help me be comfortable with this. If the primary issue with the Staffordshire Terrier or Pit Bull Terrier is the owner, then how can I be comfortable when a new owner and dog moves in to my neighborhood? I don't know them. I don't know their animals. I know my son is loud and noisy sometimes, even when supervised.

If I cannot judge an owner an a moron or as a responsible owner on sight, then how can I be more comfortable with the animal? Again... this is in the context of having a 2 year old boy running around... always supervised, but still a bit unpredictable. Obviously if the owner lets the dogs run loose, he's an idiot that should be severely fined.

But the article I posted last month, again front page sensational Yahoo news, was about dogs that escaped from a house when a visiter came to the door for a fundraiser. These were not dogs running the alleys in packs.

So... what is the happy medium?

Let's ALL AGREE that it is unfair to call the "breed" dangerous outright and always. I'll give you that. Absolutely.

Everyone see that? The ignorant homicidal moron in need of a smoke (see previous comments) concedes that many of you owners and your beloved pets get a bad, bad rap.

And I'll concede that the title of this thread, which I didn't start, is therefore unfair.

I imagine more children die in backyard swimming pool accidents and driveway accidents each year than dog attacks.

But I'm getting mixed messages about how to handle my son around the dogs. If I'm showing ignorance by crossing the street when walking with my son when an unfamiliar owner approaches... AND I'm ignorant for letting my son approach a new dog... where's my happy middle?

The answer is to find a way to label stupid owners. Unfortunattely, I cannot tell one from another when walking my son on the bike trail.

I guess my last comment, and I'm sure we all hope this will be the last one, will be a request to not get angry with a parent who keeps his child away from your dog if I do not know you, by moving across the street or out of the way.

You might be a great owner and your dog might be the best animal that ever loved a human. I don't have the skills to know you from the Illinois dogs owner or the Texas dogs owner (that attacked this last month) when we meet on the trail. I cannot tell who is a terrible owner when I bring my son around for Halloween trick-or-treating to houses I'm less familiar with. I don't know on sight which dogs were bred well, fed well, cared for, etc...

So I'll not label your dog outright as dangerous... if you'll not call me an idiot (or "pitifully uneducated", "short sighted", "narrow minded", "hot headed" as I've already been called these) for keeping my son away from your dog by moving clearly out of your way until I know you and your dog better. Do you know my son well enough to trust him around your animal?

God, I hope this is middle ground.

[anml bhvrst]

I could not help but empathize with your dilema. I know where you are coming from as I have a one year old son. But I also own a Pit Bull... and a Beagle and a Treeing Walker Coonhound. I too do not let my son approach just any dog but as an animal behavorist, conduct around dogs is like second nature. So, here are some tips and pointers on what you should teach your son, how you can feel more comfortable and why.

The reason most children are hurt by dogs ( I do not use the word "attacked" because that is not what a dog is doing) is #1 they do not know how to behave around dogs. Most children pick at and pester and being that dogs do not speak english they can only communicate by first growling, then snarling and last resort, biting. If you have ever seen puppies play fight with each other they will bite at each others muzzles and pin one another. That is their way of establishing who is the boss. Now, children do not have muzzles so when a child is doing something to a dog that the dog does not approve of and wants that child to leave him/her alone or repremand the child the dog will go for the face. And a child's response is to fight back which in turn will usually trigger the "leader of the pack" response to pin the child. This is how these so called "attacks" happen. All in all, it is miscommunication between dog and human gone very bad.

So how can you keep your son safe? Well, if you are on the trail or out for a walk an overzealous (jackass) dog owner will usually have their dog off the leash letting them run amock. A responsible dog owner will have their dog on the leash and the dog should be walking right beside them. Here is where the leader of the pack also comes into play. Who is always out front? The "leader of the pack". I can almost guarantee you when the dog is out front taking the owner for a walk, they are not in complete control of their dog. Now, regardless of what breed the dog is, how big it is you should always ask to pet the dog first. Show the dog the back of your hand, allow him to sniff until the tail starts wagging and you are OK with him/her. And as far as being "attacked" in your front yard, highly unlikely, but if a dog were to ever come running at you do not run, do not fight, do not raise your arms and hands kicking and screaming. Ignore them, do not look them directly in the eye, turn away and stand straight. By doing this you are not challenging the dog but you are being passive aggressive, standing your ground but not putting up a fight.

In response to your Yahoo stats, I actually live outside of Denver, Colorado and the ten year old boy that was attacked, only one of the dogs belonged to the household and the others were wayward rescues from the genicide that was taking place. And no where in the article in the Denver paper did it mention the parents who should have been supervising their son that was in the yard with two unknown dogs.

The best thing anyone can do is educate themselves. Not everyone is going to agree that American Pitt Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Terriers are great dogs but ignorance is no better than fear.

[pimpyfly]

Hey Kp2171


Last year my wife was robbed and beaten by two african american males at the local grocery market... yet to this day she has not said one bad thing about african american men. She even continues to shop at the same grocery market with african americans. She holds no grudges nor blames the assailants nor their parents. You may find this odd but she even walks on the same side of the street with them children in tow. I honestly find that amazing. Its unfortunate how you stereo type specific dogs for what they have done or how they were "used". And to post a "mauling" article on pitbulls was below low. Please name a dog or bird for that mater and I will list a medly of maulings for that specific breed.

If you stereo type dogs I could only imagine what other "justified" stereo types you hold. Please tell me - is ignorance bliss?

[Fr_Chuck]

How sick can a person be, comparing an 'animal" to a race of people, this is the most racist comparison I have heard on this site.

While you said , she stills shows there and even plays with 'them. It is obvoius that a standing of racism is in your committ.

Dogs are anminals without the God given ability to be rational. They respond from breeding, they are breed to be aggressive animals.

Our city has outlawed them and I call on more people to petition their council people to do the same. In our city if you have one, it has to be licenced, and always chained with heavy chain ( leash) it can not merely be on a chain in a yard but a real pen and/or cage which has to be inspected and oked for use. Failure to do this will result in heavy fines.

As for African American people, there are good and bad, just like good and bad whites and indian and mexicans and so on.

The biggest crooks are not normally black but the white collar criminals.

Your comparison just make me... time for confession before I say something wrong

[jennapbt]

Just give it up already people. If you don't like a breed don't own one. Simple enough. No need to bash on something you don't understand.:)